Vinegar?

[Fernand]

I just get depressed when after all the work we did researching and testing these acids and someone just jumps in and relates these acids to known cancer causing ingredients. "My throat gets the same itch as when I use cancer causing chemicals." I mean really.....No research or anything, but has the nerve to relate them to cancer causing chemicals! He wasn't saying they were just irritants.
Pete

Who was saying it's related to cancer-causing agents? I missed that one. What I was saying is that if I get a delayed cough, I get nervous, in part because I get a similar cough from known irritants, like diacetyl. Diacetyl is not a carcinogen. The issues of "sensitivity" or "allergy" are quite different again.

Eating something and breathing it are very different exposures. Eating diacetyl or related compounds, for instance, is perfecty safe, but breathing it is correlated closely enough with respiratory tissue damage in animal testing that causality in humans is currently posited by OSHA. Acids are not diacetyl, we're talking about oral vs. respiratory exposure being different.

And then there's the issue of amounts. Using a few drops of say vinegar for a room vaporizer is quite different from putting drops in a few ml of liquid you directly inhale.

I have only tried using Malic acid in PG solutions so far. It feels irritating enough compared to a simple VG liquid that I'm giving up on that. Am I going to be worse off for not using it? Better safe than sorry. I'm not interfering with the people who like it. That's all.

 

[Lyndagayle]

I agree with you Tona, we have a saying here in the USA:

"Figures lie and liars figure." It means the numbers are not always correct and can be interpenetrated in different ways.

I'm sorry I was also standing on my soapbox. I just get depressed when after all the work we did researching and testing these acids and someone just jumps in and relates these acids to known cancer causing ingredients. "My throat gets the same itch as when I use cancer causing chemicals." I mean really.....No research or anything, but has the nerve to relate them to cancer causing chemicals! He wasn't saying they were just irritants.

Oh well...We all have the right to speak.

Pete

Well, on the flip side, I can honestly say (thru experience) that since I've started adding acids to my mixes, I have LESS congestion in my throat and haven't had as much as a twinge of soreness in my mouth like I had when vaping commercial juices. I had mild bouts with soreness when I first started mixing my own but nothing at all since I incorporated ACV and lemon juice.

 

[my4jewels]

I tried to read back in the thread about how much lemon juice folks have been adding to their fruit juices. I thought I wrote it down, but I didn't. What's the general consensus on how much you all are adding?

 

[canoeist]

I tried to read back in the thread about how much lemon juice folks have been adding to their fruit juices. I thought I wrote it down, but I didn't. What's the general consensus on how much you all are adding?

I am not using a fruit, mostly an EM mixture. I am adding 1 small drop to 5ml. Very small drop out of a 3ml plastic dripper bottle.

 

[Str8V8ping]

I tried to read back in the thread about how much lemon juice folks have been adding to their fruit juices. I thought I wrote it down, but I didn't. What's the general consensus on how much you all are adding?

On averege 3drops per 5ml . I use that as well with Lemon juice . Anymore and i start to taste it and any less it hasnt done much . I have been using tart and sour lately though also at 2-3 drops per 5ml . I have been noticing a little bit of gunking up on the coils lately with both . Almost building up a layer on top of the coil . Still wanna test a little more to see if that definitely whats causing it.

I havent noticed anything different on my throat compared to ejuice without acids . If i had to say anything id sat maybe a little better on my throat from it adding body .

 

[Fernand]

Maybe I'm spoiled, since my juices are all VG, with small amounts of flavoring, so my normal vape is very smooth. The Malic acid I got at ecigexpress.com. The Lotioncrafter PG it's dissolved in (1.5 g/10ml) has aways been as OK as PG gets, and it's a very small amount anyway. The atomizer is a clean 1.8 ohm IKV i06 I use for testing liquids on a ProVari at 3.7 - 4.0 volts. For whatever reason, even at 1 drop per 3 ml, I find it causes that delayed slight dry cough. So I'll try acetic acid next, seeing as it's a liquid to begin with, if you follow my reasoning.

So when people are using apple cider vinegar, it's used straight at the 2-3 drops per 5 ml level?

 

[Tona Aspsusa]

Well, on the flip side, I can honestly say (thru experience) that since I've started adding acids to my mixes, I have LESS congestion in my throat

I was just thinking about this. When I first started vaping (=smoking less) a hanging-on cough from a cold I had had got much worse for the first few weeks. Then it just disappeared, but I still had some amount of congestion. Then that also disappeared one-two weeks ago - about when I started adding vinegar.
Now it is back, and almost to the cough-level again, and it was starting to irritate me a bit. And I just realised that I haven't really been vaping much vinegar-added juice for the last few days (I don't add vinegar when I mix from Hangsen concentrates; the mouthfeel there is just perfect as it is)...

But thinking a bit further: it probably isn't the absence of vinegar in my vape that is causing the congestion and mild coughing. A much better candidate is extremely dry inside air, combined with the drying effects of vaping, combined with the slow process as my lungs are getting way less of tar etc than they've been used to for the last 26+ years.

Maybe I'm spoiled, since my juices are all VG, with small amounts of flavoring, so my normal vape is very smooth. The Malic acid I got at ecigexpress.com. The Lotioncrafter PG it's dissolved in (1.5 g/10ml) has aways been as OK as PG gets, and it's a very small amount anyway. The atomizer is a clean 1.8 ohm IKV i06 I use for testing liquids on a ProVari at 3.7 - 4.0 volts. For whatever reason, even at 1 drop per 3 ml, I find it causes that delayed slight dry cough. So I'll try acetic acid next, seeing as it's a liquid to begin with, if you follow my reasoning.

Hmmm. If you normally vape VG with very small amounts of flavouring, why dissolve the malic acid in PG?
Why not dissolve it in a minute amount of PGA (if needed*) and then in water** or VG?

But if something makes you cough, the easy solution is DON'T VAPE THAT.
For some unfathomable reason EM seems to irritate my throat - hence I won't be putting EM in anything I vape a lot of.
And repeating/recapping my rant from earlier:
Just because I happen to get some kind of adverse effect from something doesn't mean that it isn't generally safe (I'm a specialist in developing very unusual but theoretically plausible side-effects to medications, this doesn't mean those medications are unsafe or bad or dangerous *in general*, it just means they aren't a good fit for *me*).
And vice versa, just because something is generally thought of as healthy or effective is no guarantee it will be good or effective for everyone (when it comes to pain meds the tylenol-type (acetaminophen/paracetamol) does squat for me, as did the only opiate I've ever been prescribed - this doesn't mean tylenol or opiates are worthless, it just means that for *me* I'll be sticking to aspirin and other NSAIDs).


* So far I've had zero problems with dissolving TA, EM and menthol by using this method: Put a suitable amount (ie tiny for TA, and to taste or according to a recipe for EM and menthol) into a bottle. Pour in as little PGA as you can. Shake vigorously/heat. When it's dissolved or nearly dissolved, add PG or VG to make up the colume specified. With this method even my TA is completely clear, and hasn't left rings on any bottles so far.
There's really very little PGA needed, but especially for mixing with VG I've found it really helps a lot.

** Water because that probably makes it easier to calculate the strength of your acid.

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

@Tona, tylenol and its opiate relative does squat for me as well...may as well be a placebo. Thought I was the only one.

I use 1-3 drops per ml of vinegar in custard/tobacco/rich type vapes. Start with 1...don't go over 3 unless you want to taste it.
I use lemon juice for fruits and lighter flavored mixes like cola. Same amount per ml. If it 'bothers' you in any way (physically, morally, psychologically, whatever..) don't use it

I don't remember seeing a mandate for adding acids anywhere in this thread....did I miss it?

 

[Fernand]

Hmmm. If you normally vape VG with very small amounts of flavouring, why dissolve the malic acid in PG?
Why not dissolve it in a minute amount of PGA (if needed*) and then in water** or VG?

Because it's the standard solvent that both PA's "sour" and "Tart and sour" use, so I wanted to duplicate that. It's also the standard solvent for flavorings. I think PG tastes bad, but at 1-3% it's certainly not a problem. Interesting you mention Ethyl Maltol (I assume that's what EM means). I like the flavor a lot, and was surprised and sorry to find it irritating at more than a drop or two per 10ml. There's a big variation in response to meds, to therapeutic effect, but less variation in reaction to irritants, it's happening at a far simpler level, and it's not all "subjective". People don't always pay attention. Most people assume drying of the mucous membranes is "normal" with vaping. They're surprised to find it's specifically a PG effect.

 

[Jimi D.]

Because it's the standard solvent that both PA's "sour" and "Tart and sour" use, so I wanted to duplicate that. It's also the standard solvent for flavorings. I think PG tastes bad, but at 1-3% it's certainly not a problem. Interesting you mention Ethyl Maltol (I assume that's what EM means). I like the flavor a lot, and was surprised and sorry to find it irritating at more than a drop or two per 10ml. There's a big variation in response to meds, to therapeutic effect, but less variation in reaction to irritants, it's happening at a far simpler level, and it's not all "subjective". People don't always pay attention. Most people assume drying of the mucous membranes is "normal" with vaping. They're surprised to find it's specifically a PG effect.

You are one of the few who pick up the chemical taste of pg. I do also. DOW is the only one I could tolerate. Tractor supply, TPA's tastes terrible to me.

 

[my4jewels]

Thanks, canoeist and str8. I'll try it later on today. I think I'll like the kick of the lemon in my fruit juices. I have enjoyed adding lemon flavoring in the past.

 

[DZ]

I have been following this thread, I have read every post. I have started using the vinegar and lemon juice with very satisfactory results.

I made 2 bottles of RY4, in one I used a few drops of vinegar and the other I have done nothing, the results are night and day. No vinegar bottle changed color and has a heavy TH, the vinegar bottle looks the same as when I mixed it with better flavor and less heavy TH.

In the end for me so far the results have my juices "pop",age better and steep less. Thanks to the guys who thought and started this up and I will continue to follow this thread Thanks again guys.

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

You are one of the few who pick up the chemical taste of pg. I do also. DOW is the only one I could tolerate. Tractor supply, TPA's tastes terrible to me.

I hate the taste of pg and almost couldn't get past it when I first tried vaping. Luckily I bought Essential Depot pg/vg and haven't had a problem since...either their pg is that much better, or I've simply 'gotten used to' the flavor as I don't taste it anymore.

My first diy pg purchase was Now brand...everyone mentioning it specifically said it was great, but to me it was unvapeable It makes a great winter moisturizer though

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

Thanks, canoeist and str8. I'll try it later on today. I think I'll like the kick of the lemon in my fruit juices. I have enjoyed adding lemon flavoring in the past.

I have a favorite lemonade vendors juice that I've yet to replicate, and deliberately added 'extra' lemon juice to that....yum

 

[my4jewels]

I just got my gallon each of pg/vg today from Essential Depot, haven't tried it yet. I only ordered it on the 8th late at night, that's fast shipping!! So far, I've only used P%G vg and TSC pg.

I hate the taste of pg and almost couldn't get past it when I first tried vaping. Luckily I bought Essential Depot pg/vg and haven't had a problem since...either their pg is that much better, or I've simply 'gotten used to' the flavor as I don't taste it anymore.

My first diy pg purchase was Now brand...everyone mentioning it specifically said it was great, but to me it was unvapeable It makes a great winter moisturizer though

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

I just got my gallon each of pg/vg today from Essential Depot, haven't tried it yet. I only ordered it on the 8th late at night, that's fast shipping!! So far, I've only used P%G vg and TSC pg.

I've ordered from them twice now, and been extremely happy with quality, price, packaging and shipping speed. I wouldn't buy my pg/vg anywhere else now

 

[stashbldr]

I've ordered from them twice now, and been extremely happy with quality, price, packaging and shipping speed. I wouldn't buy my pg/vg anywhere else now

me too .. they're great!

 

[kenetix]

Ok so after reading pretty much most of this over several days what we have concluded is this-

1. acid in either vinegar (for savory or tobaccos) or lemon juice (for sweets or fruits) enhances flavor
2. the increased acid also could constitute as an additional preservative
3. could possibly dimish the yellowing effect of nicotine oxidzation (see number 2)

 

[my4jewels]

I tried 2 drops/5ml in my mtn. dew, and it's fabulous! It was awesome before, but now it's better than awesome. A question, I noticed that kenetrix said "lemon juice (for sweets or fruits) enhances flavor". Would this be applicable to all sweet flavors, or mainly fruits? I'm thinking cooking, lemon juice is great for fruits, I can even see adding it to cakes, but I wouldn't add it to sweet caramel, for instance.

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

@Tona, tylenol and its opiate relative does squat for me as well...may as well be a placebo. Thought I was the only one.

I use 1-3 drops per ml of vinegar in custard/tobacco/rich type vapes. Start with 1...don't go over 3 unless you want to taste it.
I use lemon juice for fruits and lighter flavored mixes like cola. Same amount per ml. If it 'bothers' you in any way (physically, morally, psychologically, whatever..) don't use it

I don't remember seeing a mandate for adding acids anywhere in this thread....did I miss it?

I tried 2 drops/5ml in my mtn. dew, and it's fabulous! It was awesome before, but now it's better than awesome. A question, I noticed that kenetrix said "lemon juice (for sweets or fruits) enhances flavor". Would this be applicable to all sweet flavors, or mainly fruits? I'm thinking cooking, lemon juice is great for fruits, I can even see adding it to cakes, but I wouldn't add it to sweet caramel, for instance.

See my above post