Vinegar?

[SethG]

My toated mm stays clear as well as my van custard and rasberry stay a light yellow .

Again, I don't know how others can't be having this happening. My flavors are not "expired" and they have always done this. Shouldn't you be interested in results if you ever have the same problem?

I've known about malic acid for a while: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...7-sour-vapes-anyone-know-how.html#post2440021 I tipped TPA to this additive... Not trying to be vindictive just a braggart.

 

[pinellaspete]

Like i said earlier citric works as a short term burst in PH which diminishes . Malic stays more on a smooth level . Maybe try some tart and sour which contains both .

Str8V8ping,

You are inadvertently referring to the flavor perception of these acids. This is how we perceive the taste of these acids when we consume them. Once the pH is changed it will stay changed unless some chemical or bacterial reaction is happening in the juice.

Pete

 

[Str8V8ping]

Str8V8ping,

You are inadvertently referring to the flavor perception of these acids. This is how we perceive the taste of these acids when we consume them. Once the pH is changed it will stay changed unless some chemical or bacterial reaction is happening in the juice.

Pete

you are right , Heres what i meant.

Another aspect of sourness that is important in product formulation is the persistence of
sourness.
Organic acids that are more hydrophilic (as evidenced by their partition coefficients) have a
sourness sensation that dissipates quickly while less hydrophilic acids are more persistent.
Citric Acid, for example, provides a clean, bright, refreshing sensation because its sourness
dissipates quickly. For this reason, Citric Acid is the primary acidulant in most beverages. The
sourness of Tartaric Acid also dissipates quickly.
Acetic, Fumaric, Lactic, and Malic Acids are less hydrophilic than Citric Acid and are more
enduring. Sweetness and sourness are balanced throughout the taste experience by using
persistent acidulants with high intensity persistent sweeteners such as aspartame and
sucralose. Malic Acid complements aspartame very well – it boosts the impact of aspartame
to the point that a 10% reduction in aspartame can be made when using Malic Acid as the
acidulant.

 

[canoeist]

Where is the best place to order maltic acid? If it is in crystal form, how much do you mix in 10ml of pg? Thanks everyone.

 

[Str8V8ping]

Where is the best place to order maltic acid? If it is in crystal form, how much do you mix in 10ml of pg? Thanks everyone.

You could always get it on ebay for cheap or ecigexpress sells it premixed under flavorwest sour . Theres also tart and sour which you can get on ebay for a little over 3.00 shipped .

 

[whitebalance]

Sveiks! My wife is of Latvian heritage. She was born in the USA but both my in-laws were born in Latvia. My in-laws actually own a small apartment building in downtown Riga and visit every year.

As far as diluting the citric acid I would use 1/2 teaspoon of citric acid into 10ml of PG. That should be a 20% concentration. You probably won't need much at that concentration to lower your pH. TPA has recently changed their malic acid dilution from 10% to 20%.

Good luck!

Pete

LOL for a moment there I thought I ended up on the wrong forum Hey, this is great, maybe we should arrange a juice swap some day

And back on topic: thanks for the info, I'll go out and try to grab some citric and malic acid during the weekend. And to reiterate: vinegar goes into tobacco, acids go into fruits, how about something like apple pie or butterscotch, any opinion?

 

[GoodDog]

Where is the best place to order maltic acid? If it is in crystal form, how much do you mix in 10ml of pg? Thanks everyone.

It was recommended earlier that 1/2 teaspoon per 10mL would be a 20% solution.

I ordered it from LorAnn's while I was picking up a few flavors.

 

[canoeist]

It was recommended earlier that 1/2 teaspoon per 10mL would be a 20% solution.

I ordered it from LorAnn's while I was picking up a few flavors.

Thanks, I ordered some, I may try to make it at 10% first. I am using a drop of lemon juice in the "daily" mixture and want to see how the maltic acid differs.

 

[Scubabatdan]

It was recommended earlier that 1/2 teaspoon per 10mL would be a 20% solution.

I ordered it from LorAnn's while I was picking up a few flavors.

From what I have read, 10% malic acid solution would be 10 grams of malic acid per 100ml. So for 10ml it should be 1 gram of malic acid. Remember Dry materials should be weighed for an exact measurment.
Dan

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

From what I have read, 10% malic acid solution would be 10 grams of malic acid per 100ml. So for 10ml it should be 1 gram of malic acid. Remember Dry materials should be weighed for an exact measurment.
Dan

Ya...I thought 1/2 t. seemed like an awful lot. Not sure my postal scale would be an accurate way to measure either though

 

[OntariAuLait]

When I went looking for Malic Acid around town I found 3 kinds. One says not for food use, and I wasn't really aware of the fact that there was a Food/NonFood grade. Just something to watch for.

Also at the wine supply there were two different distinguishers to their malic acids...one is subject to "malolactic fermentation" and one isn't, although both are food grade. It kind of concerned me so I went home and looked it up and I still don't know whether one or the other should worry me. I ended up just getting it from a food supply store online anyway.

Anyone have an opinion about it, at least? It's the "buttered popcorn/diacetyl production" thing there that is concerning. Does this only happen in wine?

Malolactic fermentation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

When I went looking for Malic Acid around town I found 3 kinds. One says not for food use, and I wasn't really aware of the fact that there was a Food/NonFood grade. Just something to watch for.

Also at the wine supply there were two different distinguishers to their malic acids...one is subject to "malolactic fermentation" and one isn't, although both are food grade. It kind of concerned me so I went home and looked it up and I still don't know whether one or the other should worry me. I ended up just getting it from a food supply store online anyway.

Anyone have an opinion about it, at least? It's the "buttered popcorn/diacetyl production" thing there that is concerning. Does this only happen in wine?

Malolactic fermentation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Well this is the first thing I noticed...this is Malic acid.
Is it even the same thing??

Malic acid
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not to be confused with maleic acid.or malonic acid.
"Malate" redirects here. For the district in Manila, see Malate, Manila.

Darn but now you have me all confused lol!
I think I'll just stick with Tart n Sour

 

[OntariAuLait]

Well this is the first thing I noticed...this is Malic acid.
Is it even the same thing??

Malic acid
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Not to be confused with maleic acid.or malonic acid.
"Malate" redirects here. For the district in Manila, see Malate, Manila.

Yes...Malic Acid. That's the one involved in Malolactic Fermentation, and that's the "Apple" acid. Am I reading it wrong?

Oh I see what you're saying. No, Malic Acid isn't Acetic Acid (vinegar) but this thread has seemingly expanded to cover all acidulants!

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

Yes...Malic Acid. That's the one involved in Malolactic Fermentation, and that's the "Apple" acid. Am I reading it wrong?

Oh I see what you're saying. No, Malic Acid isn't Acetic Acid (vinegar) but this thread has seemingly expanded to cover all acidulants!

I'm probably confusing myself lol! but what I meant was..
What about malic acid led you to the naturally occuring fermentation process of malic acid in wine when bacteria is present? I wouldn't think it would apply...but then I'm not a chemist, have no inclination toward chemistry, AND am easily confused
I'm sure someone can come along and explain it all so it makes semi sense to the masses (and me)

 

[pinellaspete]

From what I have read, 10% malic acid solution would be 10 grams of malic acid per 100ml. So for 10ml it should be 1 gram of malic acid. Remember Dry materials should be weighed for an exact measurment.
Dan

Yes, I agree you should probably weigh the the dry materials but the common conversion for food recipes is 1/2 teaspoon equals 2.5 grams. So it is really a 25% solution. It seams though that the 1/2 teaspoon per 10ml has kind of become the standard here on the ECF for making dilutions.

It keeps it simple and most people already have these supplies on hand.

As long as we continue to use the same process each time we mix our dilutions, we should be able to replicate our recipes at a later date whether it turns out our dilutions are 15% or 25%, at least they are repeatable, easy to remember and easy to mix.

We haven't decided the optimum amount of acids to use yet so this will work. Later on we can weigh a 1/2 teaspoon of each acid and do the math to find out what percent of acid each dilution actually is.

Pete

 

[OntariAuLait]

Haha no, that's what I'm asking! I'm hoping there's a chemist or a wine expert/ejuice expert or something that might have some insight. I really have no idea whether I should have chosen "definitely non-fermenting" malic acid or not when I was given an option. If it definitely doesn't ferment, I might want that quality, but it also might mean they've done something else to it, like added or taken away something from it.

Ideally, I'd love to be told that fermentation definitely isn't an issue with e-juice because of the lack of bacteria, I'll settle for that, too!

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

I was under the impression that pg inhibits bacteria...again, not a chemist.
If for no other reason, I just found this and it's interesting to read
http://vapingit.com/tag/propylene-glycol/
and
http://zeecigs.com/blog/ecig-news/hello-world

I do know that pg is commonly used in humidors to inhibit bacteria growth.

 

[Iffy]

Can Propylene Glycol commonly found in Electronic Cigarette

Thanx for the link!

 

[Jimi D.]

We need an updated study. 1942 is a bit ancient.

 

[pinellaspete]

I'm probably confusing myself lol! but what I meant was..
What about malic acid led you to the naturally occuring fermentation process of malic acid in wine when bacteria is present? I wouldn't think it would apply...but then I'm not a chemist, have no inclination toward chemistry, AND am easily confused
I'm sure someone can come along and explain it all so it makes semi sense to the masses (and me)

Okay...I hope this helps.

Most fruits contain a combination of citric, malic and tartaric acid. The percentage of each acid varies in each kind of fruit. The percentages of each acid also CHANGES constantly as the fruit ripens. Grapes start out with a high percentage of citric acid but by the time the grapes ripen they have very little citric acid content, and at that point contain mostly tartaric and malic acid.

Fruits that contain large percentages of each acid:

Citric Acid - Oranges, Lemons and Limes

Malic Acid - Apples

Tartaric Acid - Grapes and Bananas

As far as malic acid use in the wine industry....
It gets too deep for me but I will try and keep this short.
Wine making is the control of an EXTREMELY complex chemical process. I don't think most people are aware of how many additives are involved in the fermentation process but malic acid is one of them. After testing their raw grape juice malic acid and tartaric acid are sometimes added to reduce the pH so bacteria will not grow in the fermenting wine. The wine already contains tartaric and malic acid so these additions blend in very well and lower the pH enough to prohibit bacterial growth. Otherwise they end up with vinegar!

Pete