Vinegar?

[OntariAuLait]

It's true that it kills bad bacteria, like the ones listed in the article. Fermentation bacteria (except apparently some streptococci) appear to be the same as most of the "good" bacteria we'd find in our body. Propylene glycol seems to be used in certain medicated female things because it doesn't kill those good bacteria.

I might be stretching it, trying to connect all those dots without genuinely knowing anything...but doesn't PG ferment, itself? I thought that's why we tend to agree that juice goes bad after 1 or 2 years.

 

[pinellaspete]

I was under the impression that pg inhibits bacteria...again, not a chemist.
If for no other reason, I just found this and it's interesting to read
http://vapingit.com/tag/propylene-glycol/
and
Can Propylene Glycol commonly found in Electronic Cigarette

I do know that pg is commonly used in humidors to inhibit bacteria growth.

You forgot about the nicotine. Nicotine and PG are both known germicides. The are on call day and night to kill the nasties in our e-juice!

The reason for using acids in our juice is to lower the pH (Which is also insurance against nasties.) and slow the chemical reactions that are taking place in our alkaline juices that don't contain acids.

I think the human body is designed to taste acids better than alkalies. Most of the food and beverages we consume have a pH between 3.0 and 6.0. Adding acids to our mixes seems to improve the flavor considerably.

Pete

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

We need an updated study. 1942 is a bit ancient.

Well it does link to a rather recent TIME MAGAZINE article which I was more than happy to read their summary of rather than paying the subscription fee...
Feel free to research and share if you like

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

You forgot about the nicotine. Nicotine and PG are both known germicides. The are on call day and night to kill the nasties in our e-juice!

The reason for using acids in our juice is to lower the pH (Which is also insurance against nasties.) and slow the chemical reactions that are taking place in our alkaline juices that don't contain acids.

I think the human body is designed to taste acids better than alkalies. Most of the food and beverages we consume have a pH between 3.0 and 6.0. Adding acids to our mixes seems to improve the flavor considerably.

Pete

I didn't forget...I was trying to keep it simple, AND pg is more widely used

 

[OntariAuLait]

After testing their raw grape juice malic acid and tartaric acid are sometimes added to reduce the pH so bacteria will not grow in the fermenting wine. The wine already contains tartaric and malic acid so these additions blend in very well and lower the pH enough to prohibit bacterial growth. Otherwise they end up with vinegar!

Okay, I was under the impression that the malic acid is being added for the purpose of being converted to lactic acid by bacteria. Sorry for the interruption, use whatever suits you!

 

[Jimi D.]

Well it does link to a rather recent TIME MAGAZINE article which I was more than happy to read their summary of rather than paying the subscription fee...
Feel free to research and share if you like

Do you have a link to the recent article? I would really like to see it..

 

[Str8V8ping]

Heres some things i tested the ph of with litmus strips for reference. Ill update it when i have a chance in a bit

EM - PH = 7
Tart and sour PH = 2-3
2 Vendors Bakery ejuice PH=8 and PH 7 on the other
VG PH= 7
Saliva =7

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

Heres some things i tested the ph of with litmus strips for reference. Ill update it when i have a chance in a bit

EM - PH = 7
Tart and sour PH = 2-3
2 Vendors Bakery ejuice PH=8 and PH 7 on the other
VG PH= 7
Saliva =7

Well maybe your saliva....
Sorry...I couldn't resist that one either.

 

[Str8V8ping]

Well maybe your saliva....
Sorry...I couldn't resist that one either.

Well yes MY saliva . Everyones is different but a PH of 7 means im healthy . Anything under 6.5 or higher than 7.5 could mean something is wrong with you . Also goes to show that Ejuice is about the same as your saliva which is neutral .

 

[Jimi D.]

Heres some things i tested the ph of with litmus strips for reference. Ill update it when i have a chance in a bit

EM - PH = 7
Tart and sour PH = 2-3
2 Vendors Bakery ejuice PH=8 and PH 7 on the other
VG PH= 7
Saliva =7

Bakery e liquid PH 8 and 7...Smooth like water..Interesting.

 

[Str8V8ping]

Bakery e liquid PH 8 and 7...Smooth like water..Interesting.

The 8 might be more like 7.5ish . The couple ejuices iv tried are 7 or 8 in Ph . Even 2 fruit ejuices ,one was 7 and another 8 which is surprising that they are neutral and not more acidic .Those vendors probably arnt using citric in them .

 

[Jimi D.]

The 8 might be more like 7.5ish . The couple ejuices iv tried are 7 or 8 in Ph . Even 2 fruit ejuices ,one was 7 and another 8 which is surprising that they are neutral and not more acidic .Those vendors probably arnt using citric in them .

That's crazy..lol Did you test just a flavor concentrate?

 

[Jimi D.]

That's crazy..lol Did you test just a flavor concentrate?

It also sounds like people are over mixing the flavors, and that's where the added vinegar. and acids come to the rescue.

 

[Str8V8ping]

That's crazy..lol Did you test just a flavor concentrate?

I tested one or two . I havent really got around to trying much yet . The flavoring i tried were both 7's . I just tested some BWB MT which came out the highest so far at a solid 8

PG = PH 7
Apple cider vinegar and white Vinegar = PH 4
Lemon juice (LEMON shaped bottle) = PH 3
36mg GP nic base = PH 9 !(tested both PG and VG base with same results)
Sucrulose = PH 5
PGA = PH 6
TAP and Distilled water was a very blotchy reading with spots ranging from 5-7 (mainly 7)
EM - PH = 7
Tart and sour PH = 2-3
2 Vendors Bakery ejuice PH=8 and PH 7 on the other
VG PH= 7
Saliva =7 (varies per person)
EVW tobacco RY4 PH7

I am noticing that the ejuice that taste like cheaper quality and less flavorful to me are a higher PH than the juices i love . May just be a coincidence though .

Looks like theres not a big difference between using lemon juice and vinegar . Also both WHite and ACV are exactly the same in PH .Everyone i tried so far is in that 7-8 PH range though .

 

[pinellaspete]

Bakery e liquid PH 8 and 7...Smooth like water..Interesting.

You guys really do need to stop jumping to conclusions. Smooth like water? Most city tap water is adjusted to a pH of 6.5 to 7.0. Like the taste of that PURE bottled water better? How does a pH of 5.5 sound?

Okay...I did some more research.

This information comes straight from the FDA's website. It is in the section called...(You're not going to believe this!) The Bad Bug Book.

I have to paraphrase a bit because it gets pretty complex but the gist of what the FDA says is that there are 3 things that determine food storage life. These 3 things are pH plus Temperature plus Time. The time a particular food is kept in the growing range of pH and temperature of Bad Bugs, determines the chances of the food going bad. If you change the pH OR temperature and keep it outside the Bad Bug growing range the food won't spoil. (How long does food last in your freezer? It never really spoils does it?)

When the FDA investigates a food poisoning case one of the things they check is the products pH. They know what range this should fall in for a particular food and if it is outside that range they can then expect spoilage.

Anyway...

The reason I am posting this list is it is the FDA's pH range of normal foods that we consume. Really Jimi D., I know of no other source except for God to satisfy your documentation requirements.

Please, everyone check out this list so we all know what pH range we should be using as our guidelines. I find very few food items that are over a pH of 7.0 and most are below 6.0.

Here's the link: CFSAN - Bad Bug Book - pH Values of Various Foods

Pete

 

[Lyndagayle]

Here's a good article and chart on acidic and alkaline foods. Ideally, our bodies need to be more alkaline for optimum health. I find it strange that lemon is in the high alkaline category. I would think it is acidic but we process it as alkaline. Interesting read.
Lesson 18 - Restoring pH Balance in the Body

 

[Str8V8ping]

Here's a good article and chart on acidic and alkaline foods. Ideally, our bodies need to be more alkaline for optimum health. I find it strange that lemon is in the high alkaline category. I would think it is acidic but we process it as alkaline. Interesting read.
Lesson 18 - Restoring pH Balance in the Body

Well lemon is acidic however when in the body its nutrients become a alkaline . Lemon juice is a acid since it contains mostly citric acid . Thats what i think i remember from high school .I could be wrong though .

 

[Scubabatdan]

Yes, I agree you should probably weigh the the dry materials but the common conversion for food recipes is 1/2 teaspoon equals 2.5 grams. So it is really a 25% solution. It seams though that the 1/2 teaspoon per 10ml has kind of become the standard here on the ECF for making dilutions.

It keeps it simple and most people already have these supplies on hand.

As long as we continue to use the same process each time we mix our dilutions, we should be able to replicate our recipes at a later date whether it turns out our dilutions are 15% or 25%, at least they are repeatable, easy to remember and easy to mix.

We haven't decided the optimum amount of acids to use yet so this will work. Later on we can weigh a 1/2 teaspoon of each acid and do the math to find out what percent of acid each dilution actually is.

Pete

Common but not acurate. 1/2tsp of lead pellets does not weigh 2.5 grams, and 1/2tsp of sand does not weigh 2.5 grams. The density if the material measured by the tsp is not accurate. Each material has its own atomic weight and measuring by the tsp is productive for the sharing of information but not for consistancy. Measuring a gram and adding it to 10ml would be 10% and could be replicated by anyone and the results would be the same.

I do agree that if you used 1/2tsp to 10ml, and used that everytime it should be consistant for sharing, but you would not know the exact amount of acid you would be adding to the mix since you do not know the exact concentration. Hence why I suggested measuring by weight. That way if I said add .008% of 10% malic acid to your juice it would not matter the ml you are adding to and you could extrapolate the quatity to add by knowing the exact concentration of the solution.

Dan

 

[pinellaspete]

Here's a good article and chart on acidic and alkaline foods. Ideally, our bodies need to be more alkaline for optimum health. I find it strange that lemon is in the high alkaline category. I would think it is acidic but we process it as alkaline. Interesting read.
Lesson 18 - Restoring pH Balance in the Body

Let's not go down this road! There are currently hundreds of websites proclaiming that our bodies pH is out of balance. They have absolutely no proof and it is mostly "Here's what we have found out and for the small price of $X.XX we will send you our book/pamphlet/e-mails that you can follow to change your life!"

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

Common but not acurate. 1/2tsp of lead pellets does not weigh 2.5 grams, and 1/2tsp of sand does not weigh 2.5 grams. The density if the material measured by the tsp is not accurate. Each material has its own atomic weight and measuring by the tsp is productive for the sharing of information but not for consistancy. Measuring a gram and adding it to 10ml would be 10% and could be replicated by anyone and the results would be the same.

I do agree that if you used 1/2tsp to 10ml, and used that everytime it should be consistant for sharing, but you would not know the exact amount of acid you would be adding to the mix since you do not know the exact concentration. Hence why I suggested measuring by weight. That way if I said add .008% of 10% malic acid to your juice it would not matter the ml you are adding to and you could extrapolate the quatity to add by knowing the exact concentration of the solution.

Dan

Dan, I agree with you again but you are missing the forest for the trees. First off I wouldn't know where to go to measure .008% of 10% malic acid solution. And that .008% would be from what quantity?

Most of us replying to this thread on the ECF are home brewers/mixers. I am trying to keep this as simple as possible for noobs. If we agree to mix our dilutions at 1/2 teaspoon per 10ml does it really matter if we are off a couple percent? After we mix the dilution we are then using only a few drops per mix. The error rate for sure washes out in the different dropper methods we all use.

So what if after we make different solutions they turn out to be oddball percentages? Do we have to use EVEN (10,20,30) number percentages? What if making malic acid dilution it turned out to be 17%. We make citric acid the same way and it turns out to be 23%. That is less than 1 drop difference and for all the hassle in buying and using measuring equipment is it really worth it?

I'm just trying to keep it consistent and easy.

Now for all the juice vendors reading this thread it might be a different story.

Pete