Vinegar?

[Bostonsnboxers]

Hey Pete...how sore is your head from banging it against the wall??
Has anyone told you lately how much we appreciate what you've done/are doing?

We do ...and thank you! xo
~Patti

 

[pinellaspete]

Hey Pete...how sore is your head from banging it against the wall??
Has anyone told you lately how much we appreciate what you've done/are doing?

We do ...and thank you! xo
~Patti

My head is not sore at all!

To everyone that contributes to this thread, I want to thank you one and all for your participation. You are my motivation to make sure I have my ducks in a row. That I do my research and testing before coming to conclusions. I really try not to post any incorrect information if at all possible.

I love the debate! That's why I am here. It keeps me sharp and I learn as much from you as I hope you learn from me.

It is one thing to know how to do something, it is another to teach it to someone else.

I hope nobody ever is offended by my posts. I am just REALLY hardheaded and will try to stand my ground unless taught otherwise.

Pete

 

[Bostonsnboxers]

My head is not sore at all!

To everyone that contributes to this thread, I want to thank you one and all for your participation. You are my motivation to make sure I have my ducks in a row. That I do my research and testing before coming to conclusions. I really try not to post any incorrect information if at all possible.

I love the debate! That's why I am here. It keeps me sharp and I learn as much from you as I hope you learn from me.

It is one thing to know how to do something, it is another to teach it to someone else.

I hope nobody ever is offended by my posts. I am just REALLY hardheaded and will try to stand my ground unless taught otherwise.

Pete

Didn't mean to offend you Pete...honest
I jus......ahhh....nevermind.

 

[pinellaspete]

Didn't mean to offend you Pete...honest
I jus......ahhh....nevermind.

No offense taken!

I was just trying to explain why I come off as such a JERK sometimes!

Pete

 

[pinellaspete]

I tested one or two . I havent really got around to trying much yet . The flavoring i tried were both 7's . I just tested some BWB MT which came out the highest so far at a solid 8

PG = PH 7
Apple cider vinegar and white Vinegar = PH 4
Lemon juice (LEMON shaped bottle) = PH 3
36mg GP nic base = PH 9 !(tested both PG and VG base with same results)
Sucrulose = PH 5
PGA = PH 6
TAP and Distilled water was a very blotchy reading with spots ranging from 5-7 (mainly 7)
EM - PH = 7
Tart and sour PH = 2-3
2 Vendors Bakery ejuice PH=8 and PH 7 on the other
VG PH= 7
Saliva =7 (varies per person)
EVW tobacco RY4 PH7

I am noticing that the ejuice that taste like cheaper quality and less flavorful to me are a higher PH than the juices i love . May just be a coincidence though .

Looks like theres not a big difference between using lemon juice and vinegar . Also both WHite and ACV are exactly the same in PH .Everyone i tried so far is in that 7-8 PH range though .

Str8V8ping,

I was wondering if you could do a test?

Take 5ml of PG, test it for pH, then add 2 drops of lemon juice to it and retest.
I'm really curious as to how much 2 drops of acid lowers the pH.

Thanks!

Pete

 

[bluegrasslover]

I saw this at the grocery store today. It's called True Lemon and it's crystallized lemon. It's used for baking, beverages, etc. Oddly enough, it was in the artificial sweetener section. True Lemon 32ct

Ingredients are citric acid, lemon oil, lemon juice, ascorbic acid, organic evaporated cane juice.

 

[Antidevil]

I saw the thread title and I was intrigued, but I was not prepared for all of the replies. Holy mackerel.

 

[Scubabatdan]

Dan, I agree with you again but you are missing the forest for the trees. First off I wouldn't know where to go to measure .008% of 10% malic acid solution. And that .008% would be from what quantity?

Most of us replying to this thread on the ECF are home brewers/mixers. I am trying to keep this as simple as possible for noobs. If we agree to mix our dilutions at 1/2 teaspoon per 10ml does it really matter if we are off a couple percent? After we mix the dilution we are then using only a few drops per mix. The error rate for sure washes out in the different dropper methods we all use.

So what if after we make different solutions they turn out to be oddball percentages? Do we have to use EVEN (10,20,30) number percentages? What if making malic acid dilution it turned out to be 17%. We make citric acid the same way and it turns out to be 23%. That is less than 1 drop difference and for all the hassle in buying and using measuring equipment is it really worth it?

I'm just trying to keep it consistent and easy.

Now for all the juice vendors reading this thread it might be a different story.

Pete

Pete,
Breath buddy it is ok....

I agree when mixing small quantities i.e. 10ml mixes it is not as important. But when mixing 500ml - 1000ml it could be vastly different. And I mix at those levels. So yes it is extremely important to me. If I want consistency across the board then my base acid mixes need to be the same every time. And yes I ment .8%, not .008% .8% is .8% at any ml derived from the total mix i.e.

500ml * .008 = 4ml
766ml * .008 = 6.1ml

I like the trees in the forest and I understand what you are saying. I simply disagree, using tsp to derive a known % solution is impossible. And when mixing at larger quantities... Swaging it can make the difference between a really good juice and a WTH is this juice.

LOL my whole point how are you going to know if it is an oddball percentage if you do not measure it in grams??? You have no idea what the percentage is. However I do concede that if everyone used the same 1/2tsp to 10ml for their dilution then you have a constant and that is probably fine for new users. But I would expect alternatives to to be given thought and not a smack down and dismissed as though it did not matter

I just want more accuracy for higher volumes of juice. So I will use my wife’s health food scale to weigh mine and I will know what the percent of acid is in the solution. This way I can determine the exact level of acid per mix to bring the PH where I want it and write a formula in an excel program based on those calculations. That way I can input the PH level I want and it will tell me how much to add in ml based on the starting PH.

Your way is right for new users at low ml.
My way is right for more experienced users mixing in higher quantities.
Neither should be dismissed and both should be used.
Dan

 

[bluegrasslover]

Pete,

500ml * .008% = 4ml
766ml * .008% = 6.1ml

Wouldn't that be .04ml?

 

[GoodDog]

There are also MANY "experienced users" that mix at low mL.

 

[Scubabatdan]

Wouldn't that be .04ml?

Correct was thinking about that on the way to pick my son up, but you beat me to it. Yes I times it by .008 not the percent. Was just suppose to be and example. Should have been .8% For 4ml or times .008, will correct.
Dan

 

[bluegrasslover]

I saw this at the grocery store today. It's called True Lemon and it's crystallized lemon. It's used for baking, beverages, etc. Oddly enough, it was in the artificial sweetener section. True Lemon 32ct

Ingredients are citric acid, lemon oil, lemon juice, ascorbic acid, organic evaporated cane juice.

I can report on something. This stuff makes some of the best lemonade ever. I buy the lemon juice like you guys are using for juice in big bottles for making lemonade for the kids. This true lemon is not really cloudy like the the lemon juice. It does have a similar color though.

 

[pinellaspete]

Wouldn't that be .04ml?

Yes bluegrasslover I believe that would be right. Wouldn't it be .00008 * 500ml = .04ml
Don't you move the decimal point 2 places to the left before you multiply percentages?

The point I was trying to make earlier .008% of a 10ml batch would be .00008 * 10ml = .0008ml. That would be hard for me to measure.

Scubatdan, I completely understand what you are saying. Every good restaurant in the world weighs their ingredients. Even local pizza shops weigh their pizza dough for each pizza. That's how they can turn out consistently good and uniform product. Most of the world doesn't however work that way. Almost all food recipe books I know of use teaspoons, cups etc. I think you are missing my point though.

My point is:

Let's let the process determine the end percentage of dilution.

We could do this:

Do 3 trials of each acid. Weigh the contents of ten 1/2 level teaspoons of each acid. Divide the total of the ten 1/2 teaspoons by 10 for the average weight of 1/2 teaspoon of that particular acid. Say the average was 22grams. Then we would know that we were using a 22% solution if we diluted that into 10ml of PG.

We check another acid this way and it turns out to weigh 17 grams on average. That acid would be 17% solution when diluted into 10ml of PG.

We would only have to do this once and we would know the approximate percentage of our solutions. Each would be slightly different but probably not by much. We would leave that day to day measuring up to the big mixers like yourself that need higher accuracies.

Don't forget, our accuracy will also be degraded a bit using our dropper bottles. I mean how accurate are our dropper bottles drop for drop?

Pete

 

[Scubabatdan]

Yes bluegrasslover I believe that would be right. Wouldn't it be .00008 * 500ml = .04ml
Don't you move the decimal point 2 places to the left before you multiply percentages?

The point I was trying to make earlier .008% of a 10ml batch would be .00008 * 10ml = .0008ml. That would be hard for me to measure.

Scubatdan, I completely understand what you are saying. Every good restaurant in the world weighs their ingredients. Even local pizza shops weigh their pizza dough for each pizza. That's how they can turn out consistently good and uniform product. Most of the world doesn't however work that way. Almost all food recipe books I know of use teaspoons, cups etc. I think you are missing my point though.

My point is:

Let's let the process determine the end percentage of dilution.

We could do this:

Do 3 trials of each acid. Weigh the contents of ten 1/2 level teaspoons of each acid. Divide the total of the ten 1/2 teaspoons by 10 for the average weight of 1/2 teaspoon of that particular acid. Say the average was 22grams. Then we would know that we were using a 22% solution if we diluted that into 10ml of PG.

We check another acid this way and it turns out to weigh 17 grams on average. That acid would be 17% solution when diluted into 10ml of PG.

We would only have to do this once and we would know the approximate percentage of our solutions. Each would be slightly different but probably not by much. We would leave that day to day measuring up to the big mixers like yourself that need higher accuracies.

Don't forget, our accuracy will also be degraded a bit using our dropper bottles. I mean how accurate are our dropper bottles drop for drop?

Pete

Sounds perfect to me! Agreed, we weigh the contents of the 1/2 tsp to calculate the percent per acid type so everyone is on the same sheet of music as it were. So we have a known % solution based on 1/2tsp that everyone can work with, and the results should be the same regardless the ml quantity.
Great idea, hey why didnt you say that from the start???
Dan

 

[Str8V8ping]

Str8V8ping,

I was wondering if you could do a test?

Take 5ml of PG, test it for pH, then add 2 drops of lemon juice to it and retest.
I'm really curious as to how much 2 drops of acid lowers the pH.

Thanks!

Pete

Already planning on doing this test with everything . Ill post it when i get a chance .

 

[pinellaspete]

Str8V8ping,

Since you have become the resident mad scientist for this thread (What? You don't remember? Yeah, we took a vote about 3 pages back and you were unanimously elected!) here are a couple of things to find out with your testing:

I think our target pH should be between 5.0 and 6.0. Closer to 5.0 I would think.

How many drops of each acid does it take to change 5ml to our target pH?

Do you think we could taste the acid at that level?

Thanks,

Pete

 

[Corncob]

Dear Mad Vaping Scientists of ECF,

The only lemon juice at my local store has sulfur dioxide listed as it's last ingredient for preservation. (Brand: Sicilia - Lemon juice, lemon oil, sulfur dioxide.)

Googling sulfur dioxide yields scary results ... any speculation on this juice's safety for balancing eliquid PH?

 

[Tona Aspsusa]

Str8V8ping,

I was wondering if you could do a test?

Take 5ml of PG, test it for pH, then add 2 drops of lemon juice to it and retest.
I'm really curious as to how much 2 drops of acid lowers the pH.

Already planning on doing this test with everything . Ill post it when i get a chance .

This would fabulous.

Your results on vendor juices (7, 7, ~7.5-8 - iirc) makes me suspect that the result before and after lemon juice will be very close or identical.

It would be nice if I was wrong, because that would mean using PH-paper would be a good aide in mixing. But I think we may have a situation where PG/VG acts as a buffer, and it would take relatively enormous amounts of acids to push the pH down significantly.

And now we need a chemist in here to explain how buffers really work - that is one thing I never really understood in school. (Off to wikipedia before I come back here crying for help because my scientific literacy is totally inadequate...)

 

[Str8V8ping]

Str8V8ping,

Since you have become the resident mad scientist for this thread (What? You don't remember? Yeah, we took a vote about 3 pages back and you were unanimously elected!) here are a couple of things to find out with your testing:

I think our target pH should be between 5.0 and 6.0. Closer to 5.0 I would think.

How many drops of each acid does it take to change 5ml to our target pH?

Do you think we could taste the acid at that level?

Thanks,

Pete

Haha . Ok heres a small test i did . 5ml of unflavored PG and tart and sour . The PH did not start changing until i had 3 drops of tart and sour in there .

PG started at 7ph
-3 drops still around 7
-Every other drop after that lowered it a slight bit .
-It took 6 drops to reach a PH of 6
-AT 6 drops there wasnt really any taste of the tart and sour when vaping it . If anything maybe the smallest hint of like a tea taste .

Just a little test . The last few days i havent had much time to play with stuff . I will be doing more when i get the chance .

 

[bluegrasslover]

Where is the best place to order maltic acid? If it is in crystal form, how much do you mix in 10ml of pg? Thanks everyone.

We have a local brew supply store that carries this stuff. I'm not sure how the price compares to other places. The guy that runs this place is one of the nicest guys I've ever met and I'm sure he would answer any questions you might have.

American Brewmaster