"voltage drop" rant

[Ronald3638]

What is usually called voltage drop is actually battery sag. Using the meters that screw on to the 510 connector will provide good information on the health of the battery but not the real voltage drop.

The worst conductor I've seen used in mods today is 316 Stainless Steel which has a resistance of 0.0000007496 ohms when measured from opposite faces of a solid cube 1 meter x 1 meter x 1 meter. The voltage drops I've seen reported just doesn't make sense, the math just doesn't work.

Any significant voltage drop could be due to poor connections or dirty contacts on the switch but not because of the metal its made from.

 

[K_Tech]

Any significant voltage drop could be due to poor connections or dirty contacts on the switch but not because of the metal its made from.

I agree; a chain is only as good as its weakest link. In the case of a mech, the potential weak links are button design, contact surfaces with the battery and atomizer, and transition joints in the body of the mech (if applicable).

 

[CloudsinCrowds]

Question!!!!!

would a more proper phrase for this whole thing be "___ mech mod sends current to my coils more efficiently than this other mech mod" because there is quite the obvious difference from mod to mod, using the same atty and battery. CLEAN MODS, no gunk on the threads all the contacts very clean etc, i know the pin material makes a difference as well body construction and quality of machine etc.

my cronus hits a whole lot harder than most other mods i have used. If it isn't its ability to send current to the coils then what is it that is actually happening. If its ability to send current to the coils is better than another mod why wouldn't the term the term voltage drop apply? or would we just its more efficient?

Sorry guys hate the chime in as the less educated one but i need to learn somehow

and in NO way am i saying the cronus is the best blah blah blah its an example. granted i do enojy it very much

 

[K_Tech]

Question!!!!!

would a more proper phrase for this whole thing be "___ mech mod sends current to my coils more efficiently than this other mech mod" because there is quite the obvious difference from mod to mod, using the same atty and battery. CLEAN MODS, no gunk on the threads all the contacts very clean etc, i know the pin material makes a difference as well body construction and quality of machine etc.

my cronus hits a whole lot harder than most other mods i have used. If it isn't its ability to send current to the coils then what is it that is actually happening. If its ability to send current to the coils is better than another mod why wouldn't the term the term voltage drop apply? or would we just its more efficient?

Sorry guys hate the chime in as the less educated one but i need to learn somehow

and in NO way am i saying the cronus is the best blah blah blah its an example. granted i do enojy it very much

No hate here, just love on this forum.

The "problem", if you can even call it that, is that "voltage drop" was used at some point in time and then subsequently adopted by the vaping community to mean something that it was originally not designed to mean.

I don't think it's wrong to call it voltage drop (bear with me, EE guys) BUT to use it effectively (from an engineering standpoint) it has to be standardized, which is near impossible to do.

For example, (using made-up numbers):

There are three vapers that have fully charged Sony VTC5's (4.2 volts), Nemesis mechs, and Igo-L RDA's.

Vaper #1 wraps a 1.8 ohm coil and gets 3.97 volts when he hits the fire button, and reports a voltage drop of 0.23 volts.

Vaper #2 wraps a 1 ohm coil and gets 3.82 volts, coming in at a 0.38 drop.

Vaper #3 wraps a .5 ohm coil and gets 3.69 volts, coming in at a 0.51 drop.

Whose experience do you take into consideration when you're looking for a mech?

And if I use three different batteries, things get even crazier.

What we have is a combination of battery sag AND voltage drop across the mod itself, and without being able to actually measure the battery itself, you don't know what's battery and what's mech-related. Taking a point-to-point resistance measurement of the mech alone will give you a hard number that you can work with and compare.

 

[CloudsinCrowds]

^^^^^^
i see that sheds alot of light on things. I knew that the "drop" we will say changes greatly with different resistances. and the rest of that was very very informative i'm glad i'm on the right track.
I very much enjoy electricity and the electronics we get to have due to being able to harness it. This thread is extremely interesting.
Thank you very much
i will know stand back and listen... well read haha

 

[CloudsinCrowds]

I am mostly between vaper 2 and 3 when looking for a mech. figured id throw that in there.

 

[vapo jam]

The "problem", if you can even call it that, is that "voltage drop" was used at some point in time and then subsequently adopted by the vaping community to mean something that it was originally not designed to mean.

I don't think it's wrong to call it voltage drop (bear with me, EE guys) BUT to use it effectively (from an engineering standpoint) it has to be standardized, which is near impossible to do.

again, i must agree completely (anyone else starting to see a theme here?): there's nothing inherently wrong with using the term "voltage drop," and it can actually be a very useful metric, however i think we've all seen people who will take it as gospel without knowing anything other than a single number. there are just too many other variables in the equation to directly compare one person's voltage drop measurement of his stingray to another's of his copper vanilla.

CLEAN MODS, no gunk on the threads all the contacts very clean etc, i know the pin material makes a difference as well body construction and quality of machine etc.

this is a really good example of a variable that's very difficult to control, even if we do take direct resistance measurements of the body of a mod. machine oil, dust, debris, juice gunk, corrosion, etc. will all have a much greater effect on the performance of a mod than the raw material(s) from which it's made. i'd never actually thought about it before, but a thorough cleaning of all of the components of a mod would probably be necessary to get good comparable numbers.

and in NO way am i saying the cronus is the best blah blah blah its an example. granted i do enojy it very much

eh, i don't think anyone (in this thread, anyways) would bat an eye if you said the cronus is the best "...". i'm pretty sure everyone knows it's a damn good mod i'll freely admit that the one i tried seemed to hit noticeably harder than my sentinel. i do tend to prefer gv's styling to vho's, but we can't really quantify style, can we

 

[zoiDman]

apologies in advance, as the title says, this is a rant:

i'm sick of reading about how "my xxx mod has a 0.05v drop" with no additional information... i realize most people have a limited understanding of electronics (not meant as a knock on anyone), but

THIS DOESN'T MEAN ANYTHING!

...

As Rants go, I wouldn't Rate this as One of the Best I have Seen.

But Everyone has Something that makes the Temple Vein throb.

LOL

 

[Dampmaskin]

When sitting by yourself, fiddling with your meters and mods, V_drop can be a very useful metric, because it is quickly measured, and you know all the other parameters that are required to make sense of the number.

But when you want to communicate the resistance of your mod to a fellow Homo sapiens, using anything other than Ω is Sloppy Communication™.

Well, that's my , and I'm sticking to'em.

 

[Chelonian]

As an Electronic Engineer (hyperfrequency propagation) v drop both enrages and amuses me.

You are right with DC resistance as a metric.

I have proven the completely subjective nature of people's idea of "hitting like a train" with a bit of gentle and reversible sabotage on a friends manhattan at a vape shop.

I put a small dollop of caulk on the top center contact. It measured out at .5 ohms resistance through the 510.

Let people hit it, it was the best thing ever, yada yada.

And that was .5 OHMS DROP

 

[vapo jam]

I have proven the completely subjective nature of people's idea of "hitting like a train" with a bit of gentle and reversible sabotage on a friends manhattan at a vape shop.

I put a small dollop of caulk on the top center contact. It measured out at .5 ohms resistance through the 510.

Let people hit it, it was the best thing ever, yada yada.

And that was .5 OHMS DROP

haha, yeah, it seems "hitting like a train" is much more dependent on what one expects psychologically than on anything going on electrically (not to discredit psychological expectations, i'm aware they're much more powerful at times than rational thought would have us believe).

As an Electronic Engineer (hyperfrequency propagation)...

damn, think you've got me beat i'm a mech e by training, ee by trade, work mostly in high-frequency signals and communication

 

[Dampmaskin]

Reminds me of this: Audiophile Deathmatch: Monster Cables vs. a Coat Hanger

 

[Chelonian]

Well that's funny - we have about swapped careers.

I started out building custom private international phone/vpn's for banks, then custom multiplexers and ADPCM algorithms, then the smart power supply networks for them, then switched to robotics.

I work with hydraulics as much as electronics now

dampmaskin

Since I buy shielded cable by the mile for work, I never had to pay through the nose for cable...always thought it was a rip.

 

[Fury83]

I find the whole thing funny. I have had maybe one or two mods, out of a lot, that if I swapped the battery and atty immediately to something else, I would really notice a difference one way or the other. Most of the well made/high end stuff is so close that it's just another e-peen contest thing.

If you really are worried about having the smallest possible drop, buy a DNA20 or 30 mod.

 

[ericbnc]

I agree the context of the test adds validity to the numbers reported.

BTW, my mods hit like a freight train...

 

[Chelonian]

choooo chooooooo whumpha whumpha tooooooooooooooot


Alright, just finished looking through his charts. The only thing that could be affecting delivered current to the connectors is the switch. For example, mods using springs to conduct is a stupid design. We build coils for resistance.....then throw in a spring to close a circuit.

The conductivity loss of the rest of the materials in a mod shouldn't be able to be detected by easily obtained equipment.

Why connectors with threads on the outside, threaded into a nonconductive mount to adjust for battery size aren't used is beyond me. The connector would be thicker, and wouldn't rely on threaded contacts.

Also, switches should really be of the circuit breaker type.

And a COIL??? REALLY?

I have built a hybrid box mod using a ceramic plate, with the voltage controlled by a rheostat.

Hey, vapo jam - perhaps you could work out a gear set that would adjust the pitch of the plate to correspond to the rheostat's setting.....the hotter the plate, the steeper the pitch, so that it's an even evap across the face of the ceramic...right now the juice is supplied by a small vacuum pump. I haven't perfected a smooth algorithm for juice feed across the range of resistance yet.

 

[vapo jam]

Reminds me of this: Audiophile Deathmatch: Monster Cables vs. a Coat Hanger

GAAAH!! MUST... FIGHT... URGE... TO COMMENT... ON... HIGH... END... cables... digital vs analog... asinine... remember to breathe... urge... going away... think i'm... going to be okay...

whew, that was a close one.

 

[vapo jam]

I find the whole thing funny. I have had maybe one or two mods, out of a lot, that if I swapped the battery and atty immediately to something else, I would really notice a difference one way or the other. Most of the well made/high end stuff is so close that it's just another e-peen contest thing.

If you really are worried about having the smallest possible drop, buy a DNA20 or 30 mod.

i don't necessarily recommend it, but my current personal vaping preference is a dripper around 35-45 watts. once you get around this range (right around a .4 ohm coil on a mech), the conductivity of the mod starts to become noticeable.

granted, a lot of the high-end gear is still pretty close, even with resistances this low. the difference may not be drastic, but it can still be noticeable, even between to very conductive high-end mods.

 

[vapo jam]

BTW, my mods hit like a freight train...

i've decided that my mods don't hit quite like a freight train, i'd say they're closer to a passenger train. not one of the little commuter passenger trains, one of the big, cross-country touring trains.

 

[vapo jam]

I have built a hybrid box mod using a ceramic plate, with the voltage controlled by a rheostat.

Hey, vapo jam - perhaps you could work out a gear set that would adjust the pitch of the plate to correspond to the rheostat's setting.....the hotter the plate, the steeper the pitch, so that it's an even evap across the face of the ceramic...right now the juice is supplied by a small vacuum pump. I haven't perfected a smooth algorithm for juice feed across the range of resistance yet.

hmmm... not sure if i'm correctly envisioning what you're describing, but i might tend to lean away from gears directly connected to the dial on a rheostat.

this might be making it overly complex (nor am i sure whether it can be done in a small enough package), but the first thought that comes to my mind would be to attach a thermistor to the ceramic plate, using the thermistor as one leg of a bridge that drives a small actuator to tilt the ceramic. this would allow the tilt to be dependent on the actual temperature of the ceramic plate, as opposed to relying on a particular voltage setting to provide a particular temperature.

like i said, i'm not entirely sure i'm interpreting your idea correctly, so apologies if the above makes absolutely no sense for what you're trying to do. also, as both an electrical and controls guy, i just really like using bridges to make simple sense/response systems