Wadda think of j0ker?

[lithiumdaze]

LIKE, DISLIKE, BULLY, SELF IMPORTANT... JUST THINK IM BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST BY HIM. TELL ME UR XPERIENCES WITH JOKE.r

 

[oldsoldier]

I think you need a time out.

 

[j0ker]

Ok, so with oldsoldier's approval, I've unlocked this thread. lithiumdaze feels as though he has been mistreated or singled out and personally attacked. I tried to explain the matter to him here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...rified-using-your-po-box-address-help-me.html.

Now, feel free to express your feelings in a mature manner and there will be no repercussions. If you can't criticize in a mature manner, it would be best that you keep your comments to yourself. There will be zero tolerance for arguing, so state your thoughts and move on, should you choose.

 

[IronHorse]

I don't know Joker personally but have seen a gazillion posts and replies from him as I have been reading the 400+ pages of threads and stickies that I have been in the last month, and IMHO,(got that from reading posts), he seems to be genuine and fair. I myself have been curious about getting "verified" but have yet to attempt it as my fiancee has the credit card account and she isn't a member here, but from reading about the verification process it seems pretty self-explanatory.
Now my opinion may not count for much,as I am a fairly new member and have been educating myself more than posting and replying, but what reason would Joker have for discriminating against anyone? We are all in the same boat,as it were, and the rules and regs have been established to PROTECT all of us and to make this forum a repository of knowledge and camaraderie...to share experiences and knowledge..to further educate ourselves, each other and the public about all aspects of this industry/hobby/lifestyle that we love so much.
It is my further opinion that you,Lithiumdaze, are undermining this forum by discriminating and targeting Joker, a well known and respected Administrator of this site. In the future if you have any issues with any member of this forum I would invite you to be more respectful of that individual,(because that person behind the keyboard has feelings and is a human being also), and perhaps send them a private message and make the effort to resolve any conflict that you may have without making it a public issue for others to become involved in.
I sincerely hope that you take what I have to say as constructive feedback and are willing to consider alternative avenues in the future when it comes to conflict resolution...after all..a win/win situation is what we are all looking for in life..destructive entitlement never gets a person very far...especially when it is at the expense of another persons feelings or reputaion...and even more so when it is not warranted.
(or maybe more like a buck and a half)
vape On and have a wonderful day!!!

 

[Uncle]

I really don't know what happened, because you left out your story and only asked a question . . . which I do not think is really the right thing to do . . . nor "Fair" at all to "Joker" . . . However, you did ask a question that I feel I am qualified to answer because I had to go though a different way to become a "Verified Member" than most at first and it took some time too . . .

NOW - IMO - AND From "My" Personal Experience and dealings with "Joker" concerning being "Verified" and becoming a "Verifed Member" - Not Only Will I Say Emphatically That "Joker" is Fair - But He was extremely helpful and was quite considerate to "Me" (at least) . . . More importantly, He went out of his way (which he did not have to do) to assist "Me" when I asked for his help to become a "Verified Member". . .

AND - Let's face reality here - What other ECF Administartor or Moderator would allow, put themselves on the line, and insist on leaving a poll up by someone who felt they were treated unfairly to let people vote and discuss their actions and if they were being fair if they were not a "Fair" Person . . . And if there is any please let me know

Now REALLY . . . PLEASE - Does the question really NEED to be asked whether "Joker" Fair/Unfair . . . If given this action alone by "Joker" doesn't speak for itself . . . YOU Got Your Answer . . . YEP - "Joker" is FAIR ! ! !

Just "My" Personal Experience - "My" Opinion - And "My"

Now - If you really want to talk about "Someone" else being "Fair/Unfair" . . . "We" could PM each other . . . (BTW: It was meant as a Joke - No Need to PM "Me" . . . )

 

[j0ker]

To explain a little further:

lithiumdaze decided to use the "Vouching Member" process for becoming Verified. He had three members that were willing to vouch for him and he sent me the $1 to cover the cost of postage for the letter containing the secret code. The letter was returned "Unable to deliver". So I contacted lithiumdaze to determine if there might have been a typo in the information he had sent me. He confirmed that the address he submit was correct but stated that he could not receive mail at that address. He also stated that he had a forward established for a P.O. Box but it had expired. lithiumdaze requested that I send the code to the P.O. Box, which I explained could not happen because the verification process was to confirm a physical location, this was the intention of the verification process. So I ask him why he couldn't re-establish the forward to the P.O. Box, this would be acceptable since it would confirm that he resides at the address he submitted. He only replied once more after I had offered a solution but only complained that he didn't think it was fair that he couldn't be verified using the P.O. Box, in which I explained that no one had been verified via P.O. Box. I never heard anymore from him till he posted this in "Ask The Veterans".

Have you been "verified" using your po box address? Help me...
IM WORKING WITH JOKER TO GET VERIFIED BUT HE SENT CODE TO MY APT. AND IT WAS SEMT BACK. ALL MY MAIL GOES TO MY PO BOX, 2 BLOX DOWN THE STREET! Im beginning to think this is getting personal. Any help would be appreciated. I know this has happened before. I have had transactions with 25+ ECF members with notta prob. I think this stinks!

Why he felt this was a personal attack on him, I have no idea. I felt I clearly explained the matter.

 

[Uncle]

Not an Unfair Request and can be easily done - Matter of fact, I have had to do the same thing to have mailed forwarded when I moved a couple of times in just a few months when I was Younger . . . However, I may be wrong and will stand corrected if it is different - if I remember correctly mail forwarding usually last up to a year and can be renewed too . . .

So IMO . . . You have still been and are Very - "FAIR" ! ! !

 

[IronHorse]

To explain a little further:

lithiumdaze decided to use the "Vouching Member" process for becoming Verified. He had three members that were willing to vouch for him and he sent me the $1 to cover the cost of postage for the letter containing the secret code. The letter was returned "Unable to deliver". So I contacted lithiumdaze to determine if there might have been a typo in the information he had sent me. He confirmed that the address he submit was correct but stated that he could not receive mail at that address. He also stated that he had a forward established for a P.O. Box but it had expired. lithiumdaze requested that I send the code to the P.O. Box, which I explained could not happen because the verification process was to confirm a physical location, this was the intention of the verification process. So I ask him why he couldn't re-establish the forward to the P.O. Box, this would be acceptable since it would confirm that he resides at the address he submitted. He only replied once more after I had offered a solution but only complained that he didn't think it was fair that he couldn't be verified using the P.O. Box, in which I explained that no one had been verified via P.O. Box. I never heard anymore from him till he posted this in "Ask The Veterans".




Why he felt this was a personal attack on him, I have no idea. I felt I clearly explained the matter.

Pretty cut and dried...a process for verification is in place for a reason...all the same rules apply to everybody...no exceptions. That's like asking to trim a little fat off of the Constitution...

 

[Retriever]

I have had a few encounters with J0ker. The last one left me feeling unwelcomed and persecuted by the mods in general. About a month ago I decided to leave the forum, and so I did. I realized after a week or so that I really enjoyed helping out other members, and learning new things myself, so I asked to re-join. I received a 10 point PERMANENT infraction for leaving. J0ker said it was necessary so as to have a "paper trail". I disagree. Sure, go ahead and give me an infraction, but at least let it expire at some point, or, better yet, handle it with a warning via a PM. I think it was unfair and I read all of the rules and there is not ONE that says that leaving the forum is against the rules. Not one. On the other hand, if we all had to abide by the rules 100% (including the mods) then J0ker would not be allowed to have an animated avatar because that IS against the rules. Seems like rules apply to some, but not others. I do, by the way, like his avatar, I'm just saying, how can I be dinged for something that is not even in the rules. Another mod, who I will not name, called me "childish", and "infantile" for leaving the forum. This type of talk would not be allowed of regular members, so how can it be allowed period? I just don't understand. Maybe I contacted J0ker at a bad time or something.

 

[oldsoldier]

Some of our moderators have old infractions still listed on their profiles. The paper trail is there for a reason, it links to the documentation for reference purposes. No one can see it but the member and the staff.

As for being called childish or infantile: Sometimes the staff will respond that way if your correspondence to them gets to the point where that type of response is warranted. I'm not saying that it was or wasn't warranted in your case, I'm just saying that the staff are human.

J0ker is usually the voice of reason -- I'm the guy that won't mince words with folks.

 

[Retriever]

Thanks for responding Sarge. I appreciate it. But I respectfully think you missed my point. I didn't break any rules.

 

[Shiryo]

I think we need a thread regarding infractions and the "point value" of them (not idealistic point, but the points given in them). Just a thread that'll tell you which expire and which do not, etc.

Also, a bit off-topic, I think in the supplier and/or general rules thread that it should be stated, in bold lettering, "OVERALL: If you are not a registered supplier, DO NOT discuss business practices or anything related to e-cigarette (Personal Vaporizer?) sales. Contact your local vendor or any vendor for information and they will disclose matters to you if they wish to do so."

As far as being on-topic goes. I think joker is a very open-minded and great person to speak with as I have exchanged a couple messages between him with great information received.

 

[j0ker]

I have had a few encounters with J0ker. The last one left me feeling unwelcomed and persecuted by the mods in general. About a month ago I decided to leave the forum, and so I did. I realized after a week or so that I really enjoyed helping out other members, and learning new things myself, so I asked to re-join. I received a 10 point PERMANENT infraction for leaving. J0ker said it was necessary so as to have a "paper trail". I disagree. Sure, go ahead and give me an infraction, but at least let it expire at some point, or, better yet, handle it with a warning via a PM. I think it was unfair and I read all of the rules and there is not ONE that says that leaving the forum is against the rules. Not one. On the other hand, if we all had to abide by the rules 100% (including the mods) then J0ker would not be allowed to have an animated avatar because that IS against the rules. Seems like rules apply to some, but not others. I do, by the way, like his avatar, I'm just saying, how can I be dinged for something that is not even in the rules. Another mod, who I will not name, called me "childish", and "infantile" for leaving the forum. This type of talk would not be allowed of regular members, so how can it be allowed period? I just don't understand. Maybe I contacted J0ker at a bad time or something.

I'm not really sure why you consider me unfair, since I wasn't even involved with your infraction. You ask me a simple question and I obliged you with an answer. I explained that when a member request that their account be closed, this was the process we follow for closing the account. It's the way we record the matter so later should a member change their mind, we can go back and see why their account is closed. Just for hypothetical reasoning, if you were to return once again and request your account be closed, we would close the account again but if you were to come back again requesting reinstatement, your history would come into play. Most likely your return would be questionable and that's the purpose of the record. Like oldsoldier said, no one can see the infractions but you and staff, it's meant to record your history and that's all.

Sorry you feel I treated you unfairly when all I was doing was answering your question. Your matter wasn't handled any differently than anyone else requesting their account closed.

 

[Retriever]

J0ker, I guess I am not being concise in my concerns. If you need a paper trail, fine, but I don't think any points should be given for an infraction as it isn't listed as a "rule" violation. As for you not being involved, I contacted you precisely because you seemed to have, in my previous conversations with you, a kind and amicable spirit. I DID contact the individual who gave me the infraction and she didn't even give me a reply, which I thought was rude. I haven't even had a speeding ticket in more than 20 years, and I find it disheartening that I received an infraction worth 10 point, is permanent, and I didn't even break a rule. It is nothing personal between you and I, and I hope you know that. I just wanted the points removed and the infraction to expire at some point. As far as I know, it would still stay on my history.

 

[classwife]

Animated Avitars:


http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-rules/51178-forum-rules.html
23. Avatars
a. No animated graphics are allowed except on application to the Forum Manager.

 

[Shiryo]

Still wondering how many points is what...

 

[Retriever]

Animated Avitars:



http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/announcements-rules/51178-forum-rules.html
23. Avatars
a. No animated graphics are allowed except on application to the Forum Manager.

Oh, so now you appear! I am impressed that you know all of the rules. Now show me the one that states that leaving the forum gets you a permanent 10 point infraction. I'd love to see that one.

 

[classwife]

Oh, so now you appear! I am impressed that you know all of the rules. Now show me the one that states that leaving the forum gets you a permanent 10 point infraction. I'd love to see that one.

Yes, here I am.
As has been explained to you several times, this is how we communicate with each other (members and staff) and how the system is set up to record it.

Rule Reminders are to communicate a reminder of the rules and to give the opportunity to the member to correct an issue.
The system stores these for the "paper trail" that has been explained...example: multiple Rule Reminders of the same issue COULD lead to an infraction.
Without the history, there would be no way to know if someone is doing the same thing over and over...

Infractions are issued on more serious matters.

Also an infraction is the only way to close and account...the system reads the 10 points and closes it. There is no switch to flip.
It is no reflection on your behavior...notice that yours says "Member requested".


Again, as has been explained, this is for leaving a history, a "Paper Trail", no one sees it but you and staff.

I am sorry, but there are only so many ways that this can be explained to you...the answers will be the same.

 

[JerryRM]

Back on topic, I have known j0ker for over two years. IMO he is the voice of reason and has been more than fair with me. In fact, I consider him more a friend than an Admin. Most of the other Moderators and Administrators from my noob days are long gone, but I'm glad to see that j0ker is still here. He sets a good example of how people should treat one another. After all, whether it's member or management, we are all just people, with all the faults that comes with being human.

 

[Retriever]

No one has ever explained to me that an infraction is the only way to close an account. Now that you have explained that part of it, it makes sense to me. I wish you had responded this way to the PM that I sent you. It was worded in a very nice way and just needed a response. I have spoken to many members about you since this took place, and you are highly thought of by many of the members here. My intent was never to cast any aspersions on you or any of the staff. I just wanted to see if the matter could be taken care of. I moderated a forum several years ago, and I know it is a difficult job, but I also know that various infractions can be removed or rescinded. I just thought I had contributed enough to the forum to deserve this. I appreciate you taking the time to reply, and I hope you, and the other moderators, will try to resolve more issues via PM or maybe a warning. I know I would have taken it seriously.