Want to upgrade to Mech...a little confused

[bludogg]

So my provari is looking a little long in the teeth and I'm interested in trying some dual-coil devices. Mech is obvious...but I don't really get how to purchase the correct components. I'm a little worried about safety and atmizoo's Lab 50 is kinda the device I want. My problem is...I don't get how the coil building works and how I know what battery I need. Even if I do a simple 1.8 ohm standard single coil in my KF styles, won't a fully charged battery burn the atomizer as if I set my provari to 4.2v at the same ohms? So I need to rethink my builds? Or am I incorrect in this because the lack of regulation will settle the battery at a ~3.7v discharge (IMRs) as long as I don't exceed the amp limit?

 

[State O' Flux]

So my provari is looking a little long in the teeth and I'm interested in trying some dual-coil devices. Mech is obvious...but I don't really get how to purchase the correct components. I'm a little worried about safety and atmizoo's Lab 50 is kinda the device I want. My problem is...I don't get how the coil building works and how I know what battery I need.

Even if I do a simple 1.8 ohm standard single coil in my KF styles, won't a fully charged battery burn the atomizer as if I set my provari to 4.2v at the same ohms? So I need to rethink my builds? Or am I incorrect in this because the lack of regulation will settle the battery at a ~3.7v discharge (IMRs) as long as I don't exceed the amp limit?

You need to understand Ohm's law formulas to properly and safely use unregulated mech mods. To obtain the greatest benefit from a mech, you may wish to use a lower net resistance than 1.8Ω. I'll explain that later on. ;-)

For wattage ("Power") the formula is V² ÷ Ω = P
For amperage ("Current"), the formula is V ÷ Ω = C

Referring to the above formulas, when using unregulated mods, voltage is of little concern... other than to calculate wattage. We typically use 4.2v as the fully charged voltage of an 18000 series battery... more realistically, some will use 3.9v or 4v as a constant, because 18000 series batteries tend to loss their initial peak voltage fairly rapidly.

Battery MCCD (Maximum Continuous Current Discharge) is your primary concern for safety... in that your battery must be able to provide more available amperage than your net resistance requires.

If your net resistance requires 22 amps, and you have a 20A MCCD battery, you not only have no "head room" (margin of safety)... you've entered into the batteries "pulse" discharge value, where time determines the available amperage, and depending on the battery, that time may be quite short.
Pulse or "momentary" discharge values is best left to those who have a higher level of battery education.

Wattage is your primary concern for vape temperature. The Steam Engine build modeling calculator uses "heat flux" as a value for coil radiant temperature. Heat flux is expressed as milliwatts per millimeter squared, or mW/mm².

Now I'll explain why using a lower resistance, when you have the power to support it, available to you. A lower resistance "allows" for greater net coil surface area. Logically, the more surface area you have, the more juice you can vaporize in a single firing... typically producing an increase in flavor intensity and/or vapor density.

To gain the benefits of greater net coil surface area... you need a minimum wattage value to support the elements of a atomizer build - those being: net resistance, number of wires in parallel, wire gauge (and net mass)... and a somewhat subjective, desired heat flux value.

If the above is confusing, but interesting enough that you'd like to learn more... click on all three sigline hyperlinks listed below. I'd suggest starting with the last one first, then the first and second as an interwoven set.

Cheers

 

[Baditude]

I'm not so sure that switching from a regulated mod to a mechanical is an "upgrade". I still use a Provari 2.5 daily with a Kayfun Lite Plus rebuildable tank atomizer (1.5 ohm single microcoil from 28 gauge Kanthal).

I also use a Silver Bullet mechanical mod with a Patriot rebuildable drip atomizer (0.6 ohm dual microcoils from 28 gauge Kanthal) on a daily basis. I'll explain later why I prefer the Silver Bullet over other mechanicals.

The KFL has a tighter draw which promotes a mouth to lung style inhale. The RDA has a more open draw allowing for direct lung hits. I enjoy vaping both for different reasons. One is not "better" than the other. I use the setup that I'm in the mood for at the time.

_____________________________________________​

I agree with State O' Flux's explanations above. I've written my own blogs concerning Ohm's Law and using online calculators, just another way of explaining things:

Ohm's Law for Dummies (Vapers)

Explain it to the Dumb Noob: Ohm's Law Calculations

Battery Basics for Mods

Information Resources for Your First RBA

IMHO, a simple microcoil performs just as well as the fancy exotic builds seen on YouTube. I believe those are for the hobbyists and enthusiasts who enjoy experimenting with different coils.

I prefer the Silver Bullet over other mechanicals for the same reasons that I prefer the Provari over other regulated mods. It's manufactured in the USA, is supported by the company for life, and is an extremely well made mod.

It uses a recessed side fire button, which IMO is more natural and safer than a bottom-fire button. Bottom fire mods have the potential for autofiring; even those with a locking ring need to be reset each time you put the mod down, and how many people actually do that?

Inexpensive Mechanical Mod and RDA Setup

 

[Thrasher]

I run a kayfun on a mech.
Used to sit on a roller as a mattera fact

Them guys got ya for the battery info.
So I'll go here- on a mech you will have to figure out the proper wicking to keep up that's all.
1.8 is going to be a bit high to give you decent vapetime.

I run mine right around .9-1.0 ohms. Using 28g. And it took a bit of playing to get the wick just right to run really well. But when you do its killer.

As for safety, atmizoo makes their own proprietary fuse and is included with the lab I believe.its not permanent so your not forced to use it if you don't want to.

For 500's AW all the way.


the lab, like all of atmizoos products is also heavily supported atmizoo takes very good care of their customers, Videos, tips, parts, upgrades all on their site.

The coolest part about them is they are never happy, it is never good enough. If they can improve the design of something they will.then they will stock those parts for sale.

it is also a side button that is lockable.

While I agree heavily with bad about US made, I do like supporting real designers that actually care about their customers and products no matter where they are. And you can feel good knowing your cash is going to some serious engineering geeks and not some one off clone factory or Facebook group that just don't care.

You can't go wrong with an atmizoo product

Since you like the lab, have you checked out the poldiac?

 

[Vatic]

If your dead set on buying a mech then you'll want Sony VTC4's or purple efest 35amp batteries. High amp as well as high mAh batteries will serve you well no matter what coils you decide to build but I totally agree with the other posts also. You must familiarize yourself with ohms law and know the amp ratings of your batteries if you plan on going mechanical and want to wrap your own coils safely.

 

[bludogg]

If your dead set on buying a mech then you'll want Sony VTC4's or purple efest 35amp batteries. High amp as well as high mAh batteries will serve you well no matter what coils you decide to build but I totally agree with the other posts also. You must familiarize yourself with ohms law and know the amp ratings of your batteries if you plan on going mechanical and want to wrap your own coils safely.

Well, I'm not deadset. I could just get a Provari 3. That does kinda lock me out of trying dual coil devices in the future though interesting multi-coil atomizers are becoming increasingly popular. I'd like an expensive upgrade to allow me those options.

Again, the 1.8 ohm Kayfun and similar setup is just what I normally run. But...if I'm correct that this won't really work well on a mech and it therefore can't replace my Provari while I tinker around with mech building, I'd probably be better off going with a Provari 3 and doing some more study.

I was concerned about amperage, and how I know where my ceiling is at with a battery, and how I know what voltage is going to my coil. Thanks for all the help and great information guys. I'm going to study this some more and hold off on a purchase for a bit I think.

 

[duc916]

As much as I am pro-mech, given your current hardware, I think a more sensible upgrade is a higher powered regulated mod. If you're just using a Provari-2 right now, there is a HUGE gap between 15W vaping, and dual-coil sub-ohming on a mech. You haven't even reached the Kayfun's potential..... but that said, if you foresee that you may enjoy dual-coils one day, you'll definitely outgrow the Kayfun in a hurry.

An iStick 50w will provide all the power you need between where you are now and where a mech will take you. Let the mod do the work while you learn all the build options while climbing up in power. You'll have enough on your hands figuring out new atty's, coil configs, and especially how to wick them properly for higher power (something you never had to really worry about at 15W, I'm sure).

Also, you may learn that you don't need dual-coils as much as you think. As an example, on my iStick 50w, I'm finding 35W (about 6V) on a single fat 1 ohm coil in a modified (drilled) Lemo to be almost as satisfying as my 0.33 ohm dual-coil Orchids on my mechs. If I want I can put those 0.33 ohm Orchids on the iStick too, set it to 50W (about 4.1V) and get the same vape as a freshly charged 18650 in a mech. The insane battery life (2.5 days on a single charge) is just icing on the cake. In 2.5 days with my mechs, I'd probably switch the battery out about 8 times.

 

[Thrasher]

Since you seem unsure of all the technical stuff
I will send you here.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLWoUhjf61yHLlCuRfOHPuQ

 

[Baditude]

If your dead set on buying a mech then you'll want Sony VTC4's or purple efest 35amp batteries. High amp as well as high mAh batteries will serve you well no matter what coils you decide to build but I totally agree with the other posts also. You must familiarize yourself with ohms law and know the amp ratings of your batteries if you plan on going mechanical and want to wrap your own coils safely.

I agree with everything said here, except the purple Efest 35 amp batteries are really just 20 amps continuous. They are re-wrapped LG 18650HE2 20 amp continuous.

Purple Efest Batteries Not As Advertise.

 

[bludogg]

As much as I am pro-mech, given your current hardware, I think a more sensible upgrade is a higher powered regulated mod. If you're just using a Provari-2 right now, there is a HUGE gap between 15W vaping, and dual-coil sub-ohming on a mech. You haven't even reached the Kayfun's potential..... but that said, if you foresee that you may enjoy dual-coils one day, you'll definitely outgrow the Kayfun in a hurry.

An iStick 50w will provide all the power you need between where you are now and where a mech will take you. Let the mod do the work while you learn all the build options while climbing up in power. You'll have enough on your hands figuring out new atty's, coil configs, and especially how to wick them properly for higher power (something you never had to really worry about at 15W, I'm sure).

Also, you may learn that you don't need dual-coils as much as you think. As an example, on my iStick 50w, I'm finding 35W (about 6V) on a single fat 1 ohm coil in a modified (drilled) Lemo to be almost as satisfying as my 0.33 ohm dual-coil Orchids on my mechs. If I want I can put those 0.33 ohm Orchids on the iStick too, set it to 50W (about 4.1V) and get the same vape as a freshly charged 18650 in a mech. The insane battery life (2.5 days on a single charge) is just icing on the cake. In 2.5 days with my mechs, I'd probably switch the battery out about 8 times.

Thanks for the suggestion. That does seem a better stepping stone. I will check out the iStick. Man, you guys are super helpful in the mechmod forum! .

Edit: Also, you guys should consolidate and make approachable some information and make a webpage. I dunno, maybe I will do it on this venture. But when looking into mech guides through Google...they were ridiculous and highly unsafe and made no sense. I passingly get ohms law when certain variables are met by a regulated device, but i know all this information is super bad on google, and what I would consider 'unsafe'. That's again why I was looking at atimizoo's products, simply because they have enough safety protection if you desire it.

It's hard to research mech's without getting into enthusiast realm where someone believes an unbelievable level of caveats of experience are met, and that there doesn't seem to be some bro-science involved that makes you blanch when glancing at your school book and saying...that's probably not safe or doesn't work...

 

[Baditude]

...You guys should consolidate and make approachable some information and make a webpage. I dunno, maybe I will do it on this venture. But when looking into mech guides through Google...they were ridiculous and highly unsafe and made no sense. I passingly get ohms law when certain variables are met by a regulated device, but i know all this information is super bad on google, and what I would consider 'unsafe'. That's again why I was looking at atimizoo's products, simply because they have enough safety protection if you desire it.

It's hard to research mech's without getting into enthusiast realm where someone believes an unbelievable level of caveats of experience are met, and that there doesn't seem to be some bro-science involved that makes you blanch when glancing at your school book and saying...that's probably not safe or doesn't work...

This forum on ECF Batteries, Chargers and Multi-Meters Forum! has a lot of the info you speak of, as well as my blogs Baditude's Blogs.