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Why hasn't my mech exploded?

Discussion in 'Mech Mods' started by Violetti Usva, Feb 3, 2018.

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  1. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    Unless you knew exactly what to look for, I believe the average consumer would not be able to identify which Sony battery they have. Looking at the letters/number on the plastic wrapper, you can usually identify the model.

    [​IMG]
    VTC3

    [​IMG]
    VTC4

    [​IMG]
    VTC5

    [​IMG]
    VTC5A

    [​IMG]
    VTC6
     
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  2. Violetti Usva

    Violetti Usva Senior Member

    Dec 1, 2017
    VTC3's - when I said those would be the ones I meant the only ones that can handle 30A :p
     
  3. Baditude

    Baditude ECF Guru ECF Veteran

    Apr 8, 2012
    Ridgeway, Ohio
    OK, was just checking. There is a lot of misinformation out there about batteries. For months folks believed the Sony VTC4 and VTC5 were both 30 amp batteries. Truth is, neither are. Even the reputable Battery Bros get the facts wrong:

    Exactly why 18650 battery names like VTC4, VTC5, Samsung 25R, are confusing everybody

    Personally, I put more stock into what Battery Mooch has to say concerning spec ratings. He has the equipment to bench test the advertised specs vs the real specs.

    Sony VTC3 1500mAh 18650 Retest Results...a hard hitting 28A 1600mAh battery

    Sony VTC4 2000mAh 18650 Retest Results...a great 23A 2100mAh battery

    Sony VTC5 2500mAh 18650 Retest Results...a great 20A 2600mAh battery
     
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  4. Violetti Usva

    Violetti Usva Senior Member

    Dec 1, 2017
    Yes, mooch's reports were what I based my choice on. Initially I had tried to purchase VTC3's on Amazon but couldn't find any - I did notice that pretty much every VTC is advertised as 30A on there so it's no surprise that people think that. In fact, even that article you linked says that VTC4's are 30A.
     
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  5. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    I am glad you couldn't find any. Amazon is not a great place to buy batteries. I think IMRbatteries.com was briefly selling "fulfilled" by Amazon, but you really want to buy from reputable suppliers. Try this blog for a read, there is also a very helpful chart, including best and most authentic battery suppliers that are not rewraps, which happens more often than one might think.

    Mooch's blog | E-Cigarette Forum

    I would link the chart but am never successful in my attempts. It's easy to find though and the blog makes for some good reading.

    Anna
     
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  6. papergoblin

    papergoblin Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 16, 2013
    alabama
    Well, I can tell you for a fact that if you took back to back hits on a 0.07 coil, the battery would be warm on a mech but as you've said the meter wasn't reading right.

    I've seen people go down to the .17 (and lower) on 18650 mechs and not go boom. I won't do it and they don't listen, I just stay away from them for my own safety.

    The problem here is your attitude about it, you seem to think just because a test said 30 amps, every single battery will do it. In truth as Mooch has said the amps ratings are the point the battery shouldn't be damaged, not the limit to push the battery.

    It also doesn't take into account A or B stock batteries, then mass produced items aren't identical, they do have bad batches. I'm not even going to get into the fakes and such but since you mentioned looking on Amazon...... That isn't a smart idea, you have no idea what batteries come from them, no different than buying from Ebay.

    Never buy batteries for vaping from Amazon or Ebay, as you don't know what they really are. Sellers will sell fakes on purpose, then again they may be getting fakes and not know. It's best to buy from a vendor that knows batteries and does testing themselves.

    A reputable battery vendor will give you a quality product and if something were to arise, say they find out they got bad cells and shipped you some. They will reach out to you and advise you about it, as well as make it right.

    Amazon and Ebay aren't going to do a thing but open an investigation, if that, because the only way to truly prove you were sold a fake will involve destroying the battery, most likely. Then the seller is going to argue, that you the buyer switched a real one for a fake. Unless the seller has a lot of complaints, they will side with the seller, as they make money off them.

    If you are going to continue using mechs, I suggest you follow through with a better meter like you said. Then I suggest you read up on how more complicated builds are metered.

    EXAMPLE:
    Determining clapton resistance - Go by the core wire and figure as normal so a 28GA/38GA (28 core/38 wrap). Enter wire type, size, number of coils (single, dual, etc) and target resistance. Then whatever it says add 1 or 2 more wraps, which should cover the outer core.

    Using the core wire size, type, and amount will help get you close. Then it's just adding a little more wire to take in account of the outer wrap. Also when using a calculator, set up you measurement with shorter legs, like 1mm length instead of 3mm. This will get the calculator to add more wraps to the coil, it may make you coil come in at a higher ohm, but that is safer than a lower.
     
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  7. Violetti Usva

    Violetti Usva Senior Member

    Dec 1, 2017

    I'm well aware of Mooch's blog - in fact, that's the reason I chose this forum over any others :) I eventually ordered from Fogstar as they seemed to be well-regarded from trawling across the internet. My point about Amazon was simply that its shocking how badly regulated the selling of batteries on there is, which I realised soon enough not to order any batteries from there.

    Papergoblin, much the same point really - it sickens me that products are being mislabeled on Amazon, let alone that fakes are also floating around. Money over safety, capitalism at its finest eh...

    With regards to calculating coil ohms I use the Vapetool Pro app for a kind of rough guide and figure that my coils should come out near to the mark when actually measured. It seems good for any of the build styles it has built in but not for custom builds. For instance twisting two claptons together which it just can't fathom. For these builds I would just measure it once its all put together and throw it away if it comes out less than 0.2 - but I've realised that this really isn't as foolproof as I had thought so I'm sticking to making builds that the app works with from now on. I can't really justify a small improvement in flavour at the expense of uncertainty.

    "Also when using a calculator, set up you measurement with shorter legs, like 1mm length instead of 3mm. This will get the calculator to add more wraps to the coil, it may make you coil come in at a higher ohm, but that is safer than a lower." (I can't figure out how to quote two people in one post...)

    What do you mean here? Surely putting in a shorter leg length will just reduce the ohms calculated compared to the real coil? Is the idea that the calculated value will always be +/- X ohms from the real coil so by putting in shorter leg length in the calculations you know it will definitely give a lower value than the real coil i.e. if it comes out at 0.25 with full leg length the real coil may be 0.1-0.4 and potentially unsafe, whereas with shorter leg length entered into the calculation then if it says 0.25 the real coil would be more likely 0.2-0.45? (Numbers clearly pulled out of my .... to illustrate the point) If not that then I'm confused by what you mean.
     
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  8. Ben85

    Ben85 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 16, 2014
    Kent, UK
    You have got the last bit back to front. The shorter the leg length, the lower the possible ohms. Therefore, if infact the leg length is longer then that gives you an increased margin or error. Using the absolute minimum means it cannot be lower than that value.
     
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  9. Kprthevapr

    Kprthevapr Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 1, 2015
    Salton Sea, CA
    ElectricityTest.jpg
     
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  10. papergoblin

    papergoblin Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 16, 2013
    alabama
    I gotcha, you're close but just slow down a sec when figuring coils. Trust me it takes time to work with more exotic stuff.

    Like Ben85 said, if you use shorter legs on the calculator but your actual legs are longer, you pick up a little extra resistance. This has helped me get where I want to be or close, especially in the low ohm range without going below a certain point.

    I use steam calculator, it gives the option for twisted wire, which can be used for claptons twisted. Let's say I want to build a dual coil with 28/38 fused claptons that are twisted.

    Remember 28 is the core and there are 2, lets say they are just kanthal, not ribbon. I'd set the calculator to Kanthal, 28 gauge and twisted wire type.

    Now you'll also have to set it as quad coil not dual <- Important! This has to be done this way as you are using fused claptons which has 2 cores, so you are in fact building 2 parallels or a quad build.

    Then just add an extra wrap or 2 and try, you should be close.

    I've tried playing around with some calculators that do exotic builds but they aren't anymore accurate. The reason being twisted wire (resistance per length) is dependent on how tight the twist is done.

    Building with elaborate builds, will always have an amount of hit or miss to it. Just remember the more you can figure out with the math, the closer you're going to get where you want. If you go at it some what blindly, you're going run through a load of wire and get frustrated.
     
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  11. bsidb

    bsidb Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 10, 2012
    Leroy,NY
    I cook bacon naked, but get my batteries from Orbtronic and never go below .2
     
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  12. Outcast

    Outcast Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 28, 2013
    Vermont
    Like how my stuff gets deleted when he asked about his ohms low nice


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
  13. Topwater Elvis

    Topwater Elvis Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    Texas
    Nothing was deleted, your comments were moved to the appropriate sub forum, *Not Advisable.

    The very first sentence in the OP's thread was - " Obviously I don't want my mech to explode on me. "

    And as usual you proceed to describe how to do the opposite, use a mech unsafely.

    There is no reason to exceed any cells CDR, no reason to practice unsafe methods, and using unknown cells harvested from cell packs is just, well, dumb.
     
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  14. Outcast

    Outcast Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 28, 2013
    Vermont
    Unknown sells I know 100% what there are and mooch him self has said that’s safe and fine so u calling mooch dumb as well?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  15. Ben85

    Ben85 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 16, 2014
    Kent, UK
    What amazes me is the amount of times you have been told not to post dangerous practices, and yet you continue to do it? Let’s cut to the quick - no one here is impressed. Bragging rights have no place in this forum.

    Anyway, hope the OP got the info he needed. Any updates?
     
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  16. Outcast

    Outcast Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 28, 2013
    Vermont
    A mod had never told me not to post this only others that think thy know the “best” way to vape and if it’s not your way of vaping then it’s soooooo bad hope you don’t use Facebook my Man U would prob have a hart attack on how we all vape dam .08 is not new norm on tube vaping


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  17. Ben85

    Ben85 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 16, 2014
    Kent, UK
    And you still continue to do it. That is not the “norm” in the slightest. What you do is up to you, just stop promoting it on a forum where people are asking for advice. Your advice is unsafe, hence why your posts in this thread have been moved.

    Now let’s move on before this thread gets closed.
     
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  18. Outcast

    Outcast Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 28, 2013
    Vermont
    Fine ....


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro
     
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  19. stols001

    stols001 Mistress of the Dark Nicotinic Arts Verified Member

    Supporting member
    May 30, 2017
    Tucson, AZ
    Look can it be dropped? I actually agree that telling a newcomer all about "unsafe" practices and how "it's the norm" in cloud chasing competitions (which I'm not sure it is, actually) is NOT helpful advice, EVEN when you acknowledge it's not safe, and provide examples of lack of safety.

    Can you consider, Outcast, that this is a newcomer thread, and that at BEST you are muddying the waters and at WORST you are holding yourself up as a shining example of what is now "the norm" in certain circles of vaping.

    :Blowing up mech mods is NOT the norm in cloud chasing competitions, the OP demonstrated NO interest in them and ALSO, Mooch has made some rather sweeping changes lately as far as his recommendations... Mainly because people who vape the way YOU do are causing HARM to the entire vaping industry.

    Maybe stop justifying your "vape" and go vape in peace, and let the OP ask more questions as they come up. You could also check in on Mooch's YouTube channel and blog, if you want more information as to changes made.

    You are vaping unsafely, and to expect to not get called on it in a newcomer's thread is.... a bit strange. It really is.

    To the OP: Vaping a mech safely is the NUMBER ONE concern, not how big a cloud you can throw, or how close you can stand next to an exploding mech that you have had to throw from you. Most mech users DO care about safety, and I hope that is coming across.

    Anna
     
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  20. classwife

    classwife Admin
    Asst Classifieds Mgr
    Ask The Vets Mgr
    Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member

    Seriously ?

    Ok, this is your official "you have been told".
    What you do is your thing, but here - do not give out advice that could put someone at risk.

    Good grief...
     
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