Was issued a citation for vaping by the NYC MTA (Subway)

[mightymen]

If a new law had to be place on the books during the summer of 2012.
link to article
Gov. Cuomo Signs New Electronic Cigarette Restrictions Into Law « CBS New York

That says.
It is now illegal in New York State to smoke an electronic cigarette within 100 feet of entrances to public or private schools.
Then there was no law before! (There was a law covering cig smoking on the books already.

To me this means new laws have to put in place for e cigs and the first one for NY is above.
Which sounds like you were in your rights.

 

[denali_41]

Why would you even do that?

Seems like you were looking for attention and got more than you bargained for.

Be more respectful and don't vape in places that smoking is prohibited and you won't have these issues. There's a time and place for everything and the subway/railroad platform you were on does not qualify either way for exhaling vapor. Why should an MTA officer have to waste their time investigating the source of your fumes when the law is clearly written to ensure that people should not be subjected to the potentially harmful exhaust of others habitual activities.

Sorry to sound harsh here but your actions are selfish and inconsiderate of others. The officer is there to serve and protect and that includes children and the rest of the population and you have no proof that vaping is completely without harm to them.

When you get home you can vape to your hearts content. In a public setting you should respect other peoples right to not be exposed to inhaling someone elses fumes - yours may prove to be harmless but others may not so the line needs to be drawn somewhere.

Pay the fine and move on...

Do us all a favor and don't draw negative attention to us. If you aren't supposed to smoke somewhere, don't vape there (unless given express permission). It's a pretty simple concept.

yea they got the right idea ,,run around hiding what you are doing like a bunch of ignorant druggies ...jeeesh

 

[gthompson]

yea they got the right idea ,,run around hiding what you are doing like a bunch of ignorant druggies ...jeeesh

We're not talking about hiding, we're talking about being courteous grown ups.

 

[steved5600]

In one sense it's not really smoking as it is not burned it is heated unless your a TH lover and have you voltage in the Hell position. LOL
I'd would contest it. Either they will let you off or eventually put up better signs. I have thought about fudging in such a case and claiming it is medicine. Just flavored and I guess you could justify that by saying it has med to help you quit smoking.

This is just another case of control freaks at work the Gov and PD are full of them. I had a brother that was one of the more reasonable LEO's. He did not bother with the BS like this also when they get bored they probably are itching to mess with someone. I'm not saying all do this but some do as they are human and you get some jerks in all jobs.

Other plan is if you see that guy again give him a pamphlet on E-cigs and a coupon for Doughnuts. LOL

 

[Heavyrocker]

I agree,but sometimes we get excited and are proud of our new way of smoking.

 

[Heavyrocker]

Vaping is still not mainstream so we have to keep it down,you can go to court and be nice to the judge,he may let you off with out a fine.

 

[denali_41]

We're not talking about hiding, we're talking about being courteous grown ups.

courteous ? i already know you don't open doors for little ol ladies now do you !!!




you two continue onward wit that way of thinking ..i will continue onward om my way to inform and draw attention to a better lifestyle

 

[Ansah]

Vaping is still not mainstream so we have to keep it down,you can go to court and be nice to the judge,he may let you off with out a fine.

What principles of Natural Law, human rights or the democratic ideal are served by "keeping down" whatever is not "mainstream"? This concept is the very bedrock of police state fascism. Why should a law-abiding citizenry ever hide from the police?

 

[Caridwen]

@ Jim Bob

Agreed. I'm reluctant to bother going to the Transportation Adjudication Bureau hearing because they probably don't give a hoot. They just want to collect their money. What I need to find is the legal definition as defined by a court of law, in New York State. Some states clearly define smoking as tobacco.

From http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/law-e-cigarette/26025-legal-definition-smoking.html):

The ILLINOIS CODE STATUTES defines it as:
"Smoke" or "smoking" means the carrying, smoking, burning, inhaling, or exhaling of any kind of lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, hookah, weed, herbs, or any other lighted smoking equipment

I would contact CASAA and ask them.

 

[gthompson]

courteous ? i already know you don't open doors for little ol ladies now do you !!!

Yes, yes I do.

 

[J.R. Bob Dobbs]

if your really need to vape in someplace you could cause a ruckus...STEALTH VAPE! if nothing comes out of your lungs they cant complain...

 

[Trick]

From what I can tell, no laws were broken. I'd have to agree with the folks recommending keeping vaping to smoking areas, though.

It's not a matter of hiding from the cops, or anyone else. It's just about being considerate of the people around you. I mean, how many people do you suppose even know vaping exists? They're going to see a cloud of what looks like smoke, and assume it's smoke. Sure, we know it's not, but most of them don't. A lot of them are going not going to like breathing what they think is smoke -- you may have noticed quite a few people these days have a major aversion to it. Sure, maybe it's based on ignorance, but if I was in the habit of trying to avoid smoke, I'd go out of my way to avoid it. I certainly wouldn't walk up to a vaper and start sniffing to see if it's really smoke or not, especially if I had no idea what a vaper was. I'd just do my best to avoid it; something I really shouldn't have to do in a no-smoking area.

There's a time and place for advocating for e-cigs, but I just don't see how making people think you're forcing them to inhale your second-hand smoke is going to help much.

 

[betterBquietnow]

sorry for your trouble, but im glad to have read this...im from nyc and will be going back home for the holidays...this will be the first time im back since i started vaping -- i was truly looking forward to vaping on the subway platform as it was one of the most annoying things about smoking, going to get on the subway, then end up waiting for 45 mins at 2am and just dying for a cig...

can you tell me if it was a cop or like an MTA person that sits behind the glass in the booth? also whats the $ fine? again, sorry for your trouble

 

[J.R. Bob Dobbs]

While i totally agree with you...i frankly stopped smoking so i dont have to inhale all those chemicals any more. i will be damned if im going to stand there with a bunch of analog smokers inhaling their crap while i vape. State laws need to catch up to vaping. If i were the OP i would get a lawyer and fight it, even if in the end i had to pay a fine. I chose to quit smoking for my healt, and for the health of those around me. Im sorry for those that dont know what vaping is, but if not knowing a law exists is no excuse(and yes you can still be ticketed for laws you did not know exist...) then not knowing what vaping is is flat out no excuse to subject us to the same rules as analog users.

sorry for the rant, i just read this thread and started thinking about all the "ive been analog free for x days signatures" i see on here and how much healing our bodies are doing to try and reciver from the abuse we put them through with analogs. No way i will allow myself to be around tobacco smokers. I would LOVE for a judge to tell me that because he is ignorant of what vaping is i have to stand in the back of the bus with all the analog users...

From what I can tell, no laws were broken. I'd have to agree with the folks recommending keeping vaping to smoking areas, though.

It's not a matter of hiding from the cops, or anyone else. It's just about being considerate of the people around you. I mean, how many people do you suppose even know vaping exists? They're going to see a cloud of what looks like smoke, and assume it's smoke. Sure, we know it's not, but most of them don't. A lot of them are going not going to like breathing what they think is smoke -- you may have noticed quite a few people these days have a major aversion to it. Sure, maybe it's based on ignorance, but if I was in the habit of trying to avoid smoke, I'd go out of my way to avoid it. I certainly wouldn't walk up to a vaper and start sniffing to see if it's really smoke or not, especially if I had no idea what a vaper was. I'd just do my best to avoid it; something I really shouldn't have to do in a no-smoking area.

There's a time and place for advocating for e-cigs, but I just don't see how making people think you're forcing them to inhale your second-hand smoke is going to help much.

 

[Racehorse]

It has nothing to do with slinking around in the corners.

Quite frankly, until I know, for certain, medically and scientifically (proven studies) that it is 100% safe to vape, (and if it is 100% safe then that means you can vape inside a newborn infant's room in my house, w/the windows closed), then I will not vape in areas where it is not deemed okay, nor expose other human beings to vapor who do not wish to be exposed to it.

But, we don't know yet. Nobody knows for certain. Right now, it's a harm reduction behavior, that's all.

Those who want to push the envelope and ignore these FACTS either have some research that the rest of us aren't aware of, or are just the usual suspects who tend to be belligerant about this stuff.

Many cigarette smokers were notoriously rude (littering butts on the ground, etc.) and I was never an inconsiderate smoker. I never smoked around people if it bothered them, nor in their homes, nor littered the outside with my ciggy butts, nor around my relatives who have asthma and allergies. So---- I don't plan on being an inconsiderate vaporer, either.

It has nothing to do with being mainstream. It has to do with nobody really being able to prove that vaping is 100% safe.

 

[Trick]

J.R.: I'd definitely agree with you that the OP should fight this. Whether or not it's socially acceptable to vape in non-smoking areas, if the law is specific about smoking, it's specific about smoking, and he shouldn't just roll over and take it if no laws were broken.

 

[scabbytattoo]

Geez guys stop being mean to the guy he saw a no "smoking" sign he vapes so free game in my book. He wasn't asking you personal beliefs on the morals of vaping in a non smoking area he was asking if he broke a law. AND another thing if a cop came up to me and said "Hey there's no smoking in here" I'd reply "I'm not smoking I'm vaping, but I'll stop as to not start and issues" there is no reason after the explanation the op gave that he "had" to write a ticket a simple "well people might get the wrong idea" would have been the end of it all I'm sure.

 

[eagarcia123]

I vape when im at the subway. I live in los angeles. I do get questions by metro police but they normally let me go. as long as im not bugging anyone with my vapor, ill keep on vaping

 

[pherik]

Technically no law was broken but when it comes down to it, it is at the perception of the officer. I have had many cops stop me, pull me over, and even take my device from my hand (we won't go into this) and get on me about smoking and such in places that are questionable and usually I tell them I will put it away and ask if I can provide them some information about what it actually is. Luckily a few places have had the courage to put food labels on their E-Juice that shows the base components and I keep two of those bottles with me so I can show officers. Many times they are grateful, sometimes they could care less and tell me to keep moving. Fight it or not, New York is not exactly the best place for any personal freedoms and in many times these cases do not go so well because of the risk behind them.

I say if there is a no smoking sign, don't vape unless you know its ok (or you are doing a vape movement style thing). It's usually been the best solution to keep the community from looking like rebels and to keep anyone from obtaining fines. Not going with the "OMG you are going to make us all look bad" or the "You shouldn't have done that! What were you thinking!" attitude, just information to help in the future and maybe ways around it.

As a note, I will stealth vape in area's that are smoke free in DC but only if I really need to and so far haven't had any issues.

 

[jeenam]

Some clarification regarding the situation:

The MTA officer (not police officer) was upwind of me, sitting in a booth approximately 40 yards away. There were a few other people on the platform, with no one standing less than 20 feet from me. The officer who claimed the smell bothered him was NOT downwind of my vaping. Therefore he wouldn't have been able to smell the 555 flavor I was vaping. No one on the platform made any mention of the fact they were bothered by my vaping, or asked me to stop. I also vape regularly on the platform while waiting for trains.

The officer left his booth and approached me and asked to see the device, at which point I obliged. He asked me use my pv and exhale some vapor so he could 'smell' what it was that was being exhausted into the air. This seemed to imply he wanted to verify it was not another illegal substance. After verifying he was not entrapping me I took one vape and exhaled so he could smell the vapor. At that point he proceeded to write me a citation (for smoking, specifically) and claimed the smell bothered him.

All here are making valid points. However, as some have noted, I am inquiring as to the legality of vaping. Clearly NY state law defines smoking in terms which do NOT describe the act (vaping) for which I was responsible for. Therefore I feel I am not guilty of the citation and will probably attend the adjudication hearing. It is my legal right to defend myself.