What are your Vaping Pet Hates ;)

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Black Strat

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<OT>

Black, before you ask……yes, with an impedance matching transformer, they actually respond more or less like a tube amp should. I'm not sure how they do it. And yes, they sound like a studio recording, not being on stage………but they sound like a studio recording, not a cheap amp. </OT>

Haha, Mostapha, you headed me off at the pass! Actually, I have had a digital gadget or two that on a small living-room size transistor amp did replicate the dynamics and harmonics of a tube amp with analog effects. They work great in the living room. Of course at anywhere near stage volume (actually, long before) in even a club size venue they just don't work. Somewhere I have a recording of my take on Jimmy's Star Spangled Banner done in my living room that actually sounds like a "wall-o-sound", complete with harmonics and feedback although it was at "conversation" volume. (I actually just use a AA battery powered Roland micro-cube for working up music - it saves my tubes for burning up ONLY during the most important performances :p)

So I am a tube-snob only for live performances or high quality recording :p
 

awsum140

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The difference is because one is digital and the other is, truly, analog. The digital equipment replicates the sine waves as a series of pulses, which even with my crappy hearing, results is a sort of raspy sound. The tube amp produces, under ideal conditions, an exact match to the sine wave. Yes, there is some distortion as no system is perfect, but the result is much closer to a pure sine wave. The trick with digital is to have a "clock speed" fast enough to make those pulses, positive and negative a very, very, very small change in amplitude.

Just my opinion, worth what you're paying for it. You results and mileage may vary. No warranty or guaranty is expressed or implied.

Sent from my Etch-A-Sketch using a lemon and penny for power with two paper clips for an antenna.
 

mostapha

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Haha, Mostapha, you headed me off at the pass! Actually, I have had a digital gadget or two that on a small living-room size transistor amp did replicate the dynamics and harmonics of a tube amp with analog effects. They work great in the living room. Of course at anywhere near stage volume (actually, long before) in even a club size venue they just don't work. Somewhere I have a recording of my take on Jimmy's Star Spangled Banner done in my living room that actually sounds like a "wall-o-sound", complete with harmonics and feedback although it was at "conversation" volume. (I actually just use a AA battery powered Roland micro-cube for working up music - it saves my tubes for burning up ONLY during the most important performances :p)

So I am a tube-snob only for live performances or high quality recording :p

There are always caveats when it comes to modeling.

The difference is because one is digital and the other is, truly, analog. The digital equipment replicates the sine waves as a series of pulses, which even with my crappy hearing, results is a sort of raspy sound. The tube amp produces, under ideal conditions, an exact match to the sine wave. Yes, there is some distortion as no system is perfect, but the result is much closer to a pure sine wave. The trick with digital is to have a "clock speed" fast enough to make those pulses, positive and negative a very, very, very small change in amplitude.

Just my opinion, worth what you're paying for it. You results and mileage may vary. No warranty or guaranty is expressed or implied.

Sent from my Etch-A-Sketch using a lemon and penny for power with two paper clips for an antenna.

awsum, that's actually just about completely wrong, though it's a common misconception. Digital audio is perfectly capable of perfectly reproducing sound so long as the clock is steady and the sampling frequency is appropriate to the material. The later is trivial today. The former isn't completely trivial, but even pretty bad modern clocks introduce jitter that's almost inaudible if you don't know how to listen for it or if you're not in a very good listening environment.

The "problem" with guitars & tubes is that the distortion introduced by tubes is both nonlinear and coherent, which makes replicating them much harder that replicating something where either of those is not the case. They've gotten very good in recent years. There's just one real problem with replicating a wall of sound in software: volume.

Your ears respond differently to quiet sounds than they do to loud ones. I don't just mean that one sounds louder and might hurt and the other doesn't…I mean the frequency response of human ears depends on the volume of the sounds you're hearing. This effect is described in Fletcher-Munson curves.

Unfortunately, compensating for that in software/modeling is just about impossible because it would have to "listen" to the output and adjust filters to match. There's stuff that can do it, but not much. And it's generally not worth it.

The other effect of volume is that guitars respond to sound waves near them. The strings do it a lot. The wood does it some. Playing a guitar in front of a wall of sound will just not sound the same as playing into a modeling of a wall of sound where the guitar can't "hear" it and respond to it. Part of that is just feedback, but it also alters how both the wood and the strings vibrate and alters the overtones that the guitar strings generate before they even get to anything else.

I'm honestly kind of the opposite of an analog snob. I've done subjective and objective listening tests. In a good enough listening environment, I can tell the difference between something that's been run through an analog console and something that hasn't (the board in question was a Neve 88RS…listening was done on genelecs in a pretty good control room)…I can hear the difference between well-encoded 320kbps mp3s and uncompressed audio (same environment the first time, but I can do it on Sennheiser HD-25s and prosumer level converters as well). Vinyl vs. uncompressed digital is easy. Tape (1/4" 2-track) vs. uncompressed digital is easy.

I honestly prefer the way digital sounds. It introduces fewer artifacts. It has an audibly lower noise floor. It has a much wider usable dynamic range.

Tube saturation/distortion (and to a lesser extent tape saturation) is the only place where I don't believe that digital audio holds up. Unfortunately……I play blues. That edge b/t natural tube compression and slightly broken just barely clipping is where I live. Modeling doesn't really stand up compared to tube amps. But Amplitube 3 is free. And I live in an apartment. Even if I could justify the expense of a Fuchs ODS (my favorite amps…hands down) I couldn't make it sound good at apartment volumes anyway. And I'm nowhere near a good enough guitarist to blow 3 grand on a head.
 

Butters78

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awsum140

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There are always caveats when it comes to modeling.



awsum, that's actually just about completely wrong, though it's a common misconception. Digital audio is perfectly capable of perfectly reproducing sound so long as the clock is steady and the sampling frequency is appropriate to the material. The later is trivial today. The former isn't completely trivial, but even pretty bad modern clocks introduce jitter that's almost inaudible if you don't know how to listen for it or if you're not in a very good listening environment.

The "problem" with guitars & tubes is that the distortion introduced by tubes is both nonlinear and coherent, which makes replicating them much harder that replicating something where either of those is not the case. They've gotten very good in recent years. There's just one real problem with replicating a wall of sound in software: volume.

Your ears respond differently to quiet sounds than they do to loud ones. I don't just mean that one sounds louder and might hurt and the other doesn't…I mean the frequency response of human ears depends on the volume of the sounds you're hearing. This effect is described in Fletcher-Munson curves.

Unfortunately, compensating for that in software/modeling is just about impossible because it would have to "listen" to the output and adjust filters to match. There's stuff that can do it, but not much. And it's generally not worth it.

The other effect of volume is that guitars respond to sound waves near them. The strings do it a lot. The wood does it some. Playing a guitar in front of a wall of sound will just not sound the same as playing into a modeling of a wall of sound where the guitar can't "hear" it and respond to it. Part of that is just feedback, but it also alters how both the wood and the strings vibrate and alters the overtones that the guitar strings generate before they even get to anything else.

I'm honestly kind of the opposite of an analog snob. I've done subjective and objective listening tests. In a good enough listening environment, I can tell the difference between something that's been run through an analog console and something that hasn't (the board in question was a Neve 88RS…listening was done on genelecs in a pretty good control room)…I can hear the difference between well-encoded 320kbps mp3s and uncompressed audio (same environment the first time, but I can do it on Sennheiser HD-25s and prosumer level converters as well). Vinyl vs. uncompressed digital is easy. Tape (1/4" 2-track) vs. uncompressed digital is easy.

I honestly prefer the way digital sounds. It introduces fewer artifacts. It has an audibly lower noise floor. It has a much wider usable dynamic range.

Tube saturation/distortion (and to a lesser extent tape saturation) is the only place where I don't believe that digital audio holds up. Unfortunately……I play blues. That edge b/t natural tube compression and slightly broken just barely clipping is where I live. Modeling doesn't really stand up compared to tube amps. But Amplitube 3 is free. And I live in an apartment. Even if I could justify the expense of a Fuchs ODS (my favorite amps…hands down) I couldn't make it sound good at apartment volumes anyway. And I'm nowhere near a good enough guitarist to blow 3 grand on a head.

I won't argue with a musician about sound quality. I can say I have watched the outputs of analog an digital systems on scopes and there was a noticeable difference in waveforms when watching actual music rather than a sine wave from a generator. And yes I could also see the "steps" introduced by the digital reproduction of the generated sine waves (high end dual trace Tektronics scope). The number of variables that come into play with a true analog system, harmonics, distortions from power supply loading, tube response curves and so on all seem to contribute to a richness of sound that digital systems just can't replicate, yet. Yes, the noise floor of digital is lower but, to me being an "old school fan", that adds a little something to like the background noise of a live performance. Todays digital systems, with their higher clock speeds, are much better when they were when things first came out, but I still like the sound of a true analog system with a set of 16" woofers over digital system.

Heck, I live in my own house and still can't listen at the levels I really like for a lot of music. I hated it living in an apartment, the neighbors got irritated too easy!

Just my opinion, worth what you're paying for it. You results and mileage may vary. No warranty or guaranty is expressed or implied.

Sent from my Etch-A-Sketch using a lemon and penny for power with two paper clips for an antenna.
 

cocacola31173

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When my dad says to me "Good, you finally smartened up and quit cigarettes, so when you going to
give up that thing up, (pointing to my e-cig) cause any smoking is bad for you!!"


I get the same thing! But his other hand is usually holding a cig! Ive tried to get both my parents to try vaping but neither of them will do it.
 

thebluefox009

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Kahuna

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A peeve I just realized: the box of bottles of fluid that I don't like that sits on a shelf. It stares at me, judgingly, a constant reminder of my shameful inability to curb my impulse buying urges. Sure I can blame vendors for making such tempting descriptions (or the opposite, terrible descriptions that don't even come close to it's actual taste yet was interesting enough for me to try it). I can also blame that little voice in my head that convinces me that I like menthol flavors when I clearly don't. The same voice tells me to buy cartos and DCTs when I knowingly hate them, their short lifespans, wet sock taste and silly inability to stay wet. So next to my box of regret is my box of shame filled with outdated and obsolete vaping gear. I desperately cling to these boxes in the hope that it will slow down my purchases and help me make smarter decisions. It doesn't. heh.
 

Bosco

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I have only been vaping a month now but I have a couple.

I hate the way my box of eliquids and flavors smells when I open it. Like a perfume factory threw up.

I hate getting juice all over my fingers, desk and computer keyboard when my dripping atty leaks - which it does all the time.

I hate that most juice doesn't come with child-proof caps.

hmmm . .that's about it. Other than that, I love vaping!
 
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