What companies do you think WILL stay in the Market after August?

[Yiana]

I remember when non-refillable atomizers were refillable two maybe three times if you were willing to take the time...

I did that exact thing when I first started over three years ago, until I found an ego.

Think if those same Non-Refillable Atomizers had a Chip in them that worked the Same Way that the Chips do in a Ink Jet Cartridge?

You know the know the Cartridges that I'm Talk'n about? The ones that Won't let you Print even if you Re-Fill them.

Ack! That is the stuff of nightmares!

 

[Lessifer]

The only logical thing I can see through my haze of anger is to have a business in another state which buys the PA businesses inventory before the effective date, takes possession in the other state, then sells it back to them as needed or drop ships. The PA business may still be subjected to the new wholesale tax as it purchases items to resell, but it would be spread out over time and possibly workable.

What about a liquidation sale, everything must go by 8/1! to finance the restocking? Still take a hit, but stick it to the man...

IDK, some very tough business decisions will have to be made.

 

[440BB]

What about a liquidation sale, everything must go by 8/1!

For my particular vendor, I do selfishly wish for a massive liquidation discount! Thinking about the greater good as well as my pocketbook is getting challenging though!

 

[Eskie]

Yeah who paid the majority of those cancer related medical bills?
Medicare?
Medicaid?
Private insurance?
Would like to see a breakdown on that.

Total expense figures are pretty easy to find. Breakdown by payor type by condition is very hard, especially as private medical insurance payments per condition are hard to track down. You never quite know how the private carriers are calculating their outlays as they work with discounted and risk management caps in place along with reinsurance to limit their liability.

It is not unreasonable to guesstimate total that total Medicare and Medicaid expenditures for lung cancer are higher than for all private carriers combined.

 

[Lessifer]

For my particular vendor, I do selfishly wish for a massive liquidation discount! Thinking about the greater good as well as my pocketbook is getting challenging though!

Any vendor, in any state in the US, that chooses to stay open at this point is brave.

 

[Yiana]

Folks with celiac disease do really struggle with it. And I know he must be miserable if any gluten slips through. Not unlike peanut allergy, where remnants contaminate food production lines, and those few with a severe allergy can have a life threatening reaction.

Unfortunately you have fad diets out there convincing folks who do not suffer from celiac disease that gluten free is somehow healthier. It becomes pseudoscience, and doesn't really do anyone any good, except the marketers eager to jump on the fad. Although it might simplify shopping for your BIL to not get an avoidable reaction.

But honest, plain skinless, uncooked chicken breast really could not, and should not have any gluten associated with it to worry about labels. The sliced chicken you buy at the deli counter, however, might very well have been seasoned and there labeling a prepared food product is appropriate.

Ever see how ridiculously high priced gluten free is?
I feel for those with celiac disease.

 

[Verb]

Not to quote myself, but:



I had a larger purpose in mind.

If the ex post facto clause is going the way of the dodo, then all our stocking up may have gone for naught.

What's to keep the FDA from deciding that their congressional mandate also includes confiscating all "tobacco products" (as they deem them) in existence and in the hands of the end-users, i.e., us? If they do such, and the ex post facto clause is dead, then what's to keep them from delegating the BATF from knocking on our doors late some night and dragging away all our stashes?

Hopefully some lawyer will come along and explain all this to us.

I'll one up you. Your nic stash is enough for your state to claim you're an unlicensed manufacturer and takes your entire house under civil forfeiture but never charges you with a crime.

 

[Yiana]

The government is good at one thing and that is putting small businesses out of business.

Fixed that for ya.

 

[Yiana]

I'll one up you. Your nic stash is enough for your state to claim you're an unlicensed manufacturer and takes your entire house under civil forfeiture but never charges you with a crime.

What are they going to do? Go house to house and check your freezer? Although...since there will be an age verification system in place in August they could have you on a list if you bought 100mg base. That is why I bought some now. I'm picking up one more liter though before Aug 9th. I think tho, if you are "selling" your homemade juice and they bust you for it then it can happen. Like what they do in a drug raid.

 

[Racehorse]

That 80% that are satisfied with their Ego/clearo combination are mostly unaware that even that setup is at risk of going away. They are the group most likely to return to smoking if supplies aren't locally available. I wish the anger and outrage they will feel when they can't pick up refills or new things could be tapped into now rather than later.

While nobody knows for SURE what will happen, I am of the opinion that companies like HALO are going to be quite successful with their SE's (not to mention lawsuits). I don't see these evod-like products leaving the landscape.

Perhaps I am too optimistic, but I also fully expect that legislation will eventually be enacted that prevents the FDA from requiring PMTAs for all vaping products ---
Understand, states want $$. If the ecig industry is decimated that won't be possible. FDA IMHO will focus on *safety* and other regs (states) will focus on *taxes*.

Even in the AR laws hardware and DIY wasn't touched. They just want eliquid to be inventoried and taxed and lined up on shelves with stamps on them to make this all easy. As much as I don't agree with our governor on most things, we have great roads and many other things, due to being one of few states that consistently has a balanced budget. They tax groceries here.....that helps the coffers but hurts way more people than taxes on eliquid will...........

 

[440BB]

While nobody knows for SURE what will happen, I am of the opinion that companies like HALO are going to be quite successful with their SE's (not to mention lawsuits). I don't see these evod-like products leaving the landscape.

I am going to try to achieve that optimism, at least for a bit. Seeing a PA supplier that I consider to be like family get decimated has me too angry to see the light at the moment.

 

[YoursTruli]

Total expense figures are pretty easy to find. Breakdown by payor type by condition is very hard, especially as private medical insurance payments per condition are hard to track down. You never quite know how the private carriers are calculating their outlays as they work with discounted and risk management caps in place along with reinsurance to limit their liability.

It is not unreasonable to guesstimate total that total Medicare and Medicaid expenditures for lung cancer are higher than for all private carriers combined.

Not sure what you are basing this on? That mainly the poor and those over age 65 get lung cancer?
Stats dictate otherwise where the majority are under age 65 and of working-class age
Estimated New Cases for the Four Major Cancers by Sex & Age Group, 2015
http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/content/@editorial/documents/document/acspc-044511.pdf
Estimated Deaths for the Four Major Cancers by Sex & Age Group, 2015
http://www.cancer.org/acs/groups/content/@editorial/documents/document/acspc-044509.pdf

 

[YoursTruli]

This from the Call To Action Thread
CALL TO ACTION! - Pennsylvania: 40% tax = game over for vape

Raenon from Azure Vaping

All of us here in PA are hurting today. This is a well crafted guillotine designed to kill the industry and all use of vaping supplies in any fashion.

In fact, even supplies that you have in your own possession in PA, regardless of when you bought them, may be covered:

Section 1207-A. Sales or possession of tobacco product when tax
not paid.
(a) Sales or possession.--Any person who sells or possesses
any tobacco product for which the proper tax has not been paid
commits a summary offense and shall, upon conviction, be
sentenced to pay costs of prosecution and a fine of not less
than $100 nor more than $1,000 or to imprisonment for not more
than 60 days, or both, at the discretion of the court. Any
tobacco products purchased from a wholesaler properly licensed
under this article shall be presumed to have the proper taxes
paid.
(b) Tax evasion.--Any person that shall falsely or
fraudulently, maliciously, intentionally or willfully with
intent to evade the payment of the tax imposed by this article
sells or possesses any tobacco product for which the proper tax
has not been paid commits a felony and shall, upon conviction,
be sentenced to pay costs of prosecution and a fine of not more
than $5,000 or to imprisonment for not more than five years, or
both, at the discretion of the court.​

So, if you're walking around with a bottle of juice you've had for years, or DIY? Apparently, it's up to a 5 year prison sentence.

So lets say you CAN find a vendor who meets all criteria, and you get some liquid from them, paying a price that'll cover the extra taxes... wait, you lost the receipt??

Section 1214-A. Failure to furnish information, returning false
information or failure to permit inspection.
(a) Penalty.--Any taxpayer who fails to keep or make any
record, return, report, inventory or statement, or keeps or
makes any false or fraudulent record, return, report, inventory
or statement required by this article commits a misdemeanor and
shall, upon conviction, be sentenced to pay costs of prosecution
and a fine of $500 and to imprisonment for not more than one
year, or both, at the discretion of the court.​

Prison time, again. It should say retailer, or wholesaler, but it doesn't. This entire section of law makes it clear that these rules all apply to individual persons as well, not just the businesses or their representatives.

"Unclassified importer." A consumer who purchases tobacco
products using the Internet or mail order catalogs for personal
possession or use in this Commonwealth from persons that are not
licensed.
...
1202-A (c) Unclassified importer.--The tax is imposed on an
unclassified importer at the time of purchase at the same rate
as in subsections (a) and (a.1) based on the unclassified
importer's purchase price of the tobacco products. The
unclassified importer shall remit the tax to the department​

GET ANGRY. CALL YOUR REPRESENTATIVES.
This is all effective before the FDA hammer even comes down.

looks like this hits everyone both consumers and businesses alike in PA... I wonder about nic base and personal gear PA residents have in their possession now.

Honestly I am beginning to become seriously worried about posting on ECF anymore, are we just giving those who want to hurt us most the ammo to do it in the most effective way? It feels like it.

 

[Yiana]

This from the Call To Action Thread
CALL TO ACTION! - Pennsylvania: 40% tax = game over for vape

Raenon from Azure Vaping




looks like this hits everyone both consumers and businesses alike in PA... I wonder about nic base and personal gear PA residents have in their possession now.

Honestly I am beginning to become seriously worried about posting on ECF anymore, are we just giving those who want to hurt us most the ammo to do it in the most effective way? It feels like it.

Whoa...what the hell? That is beyobd insane. Are they going to pull people over and ask to see a receipt? I cannot even begin to wrap my head around this.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

No. Not at all right.

Math hurts my head give me a minute.

You are not alone. I've completed 3 courses in Calculus and 3 courses in chemistry all at the collegiate level, and this hurts my head too no matter how simple anyone says it is. An error will not be pretty if you are off on nic base and it's 100mg/ml.

Use the online calculators and check back here before you do anything until you feel like going it on your own.

What I do is write everything down on paper and work though the problem 3x. These equations for mixing are more fraught with error due to fact that they involve cancellation and multiplication of fractions that only a full time chemist would feel at home with.

 

[Tommy-Chi]

This from the Call To Action Thread
CALL TO ACTION! - Pennsylvania: 40% tax = game over for vape

Raenon from Azure Vaping


looks like this hits everyone both consumers and businesses alike in PA... I wonder about nic base and personal gear PA residents have in their possession now.

Honestly I am beginning to become seriously worried about posting on ECF anymore, are we just giving those who want to hurt us most the ammo to do it in the most effective way? It feels like it.

I'll pour everything down the drain before I give anyone a nickel. My budget doesn't accommodate fools who do not know how to balance their own budgets.

 

[Yiana]

Dang double post

 

[zoiDman]

...

What's to keep the FDA from deciding that their congressional mandate also includes confiscating all "tobacco products" (as they deem them) in existence and in the hands of the end-users, i.e., us? ...

I Dunno.

People who have Exercised their 2nd Amendment Right?

 

[Lannie]

"Your papers, please."

 

[Yiana]

I'll pour everything down the drain before I give anyone a nickel. My budget doesn't accommodate fools who do not know how to balance their own budgets.

Attn: lawmakers
I just dumped all my nic.

Don't tax me man!