What if banned

[ted26]

Was just thinking about if the uk end up banning e-smoking and wondered how i could get around such a problem.

Do you think we will still be able to import from china or will we all have to look for an alternative method of getting our drug?

Maybe it will just go underground and will start meeting up with sellers in service stations and pub car parks

 

[Kate]

I don't think the devices will be banned, we're still allowed to buy drug paraphernalia in the UK, it's the substances themselves that are controlled. If anything gets banned I'll bet it's nicotine eliquid because it's so hazardous.

Black market nicotine doesn't sound appealing to me, I hope it doesn't come to that.

 

[CaSHMeRe]

like Kate said ...

The devices themselves probably won't get banned, just the liquid/carts.

Within 24 hours of being banned, there will be 30 new recipes of DIY juice, you can count on it.

 

[rustylug]

Well i just had the mini band for sale in my shop in Inverness ....I even offerd to only sell the mini to customers with NO NIC Carts ..... One reason they said i can NOT sell the MINI CIG was because >>>> Its a product potentially coming under the definition of a medicinal product... AND he also said it could be used in the same way a a nicotien inhaler..... I told them that the WHO have not passed them as a medical product, so thats not what it is..... Didnt make much diffrance to him....They have giving me a suspension order and said i should get an answer as to whether or not i can sell it again in its curnet state with in about a week to 10 days..... The said they have to make some calls to find out what category it falls into.

 

[ismoke]

What does the suspension notice actually state? Is this to do with General Product Safety, i.e. the safety the labelling of consumer goods, or more specifically, the fact that they cannot (for whatever reason) classify the product?

 

[Kate]

That's the problem with people claiming esmoking to be nicotine replacement therapy and a smoking cessation technique - authorities have to use the strict controls meant for medicinal products. We've seen this claim time and again and sellers who make these claims are their own worst enemies because they are drawing unwanted attention and regulation. It should be enough to say that it's a smoking alternative and leave it at that.

It's not surprising there is confusion about categorising esmoking products, it's not tobacco, it's claimed to be medicinal and really what it is is a non-medicinal vapour delivery system. In fact if the devices had been sold from the start without nicotine they wouldn't even be an issue. The fact that vendors sell the devices as a nicotine delivery system is what makes them suspect. Selling devices and nicotine juice separately may be a way ahead.

 

[Denni]

Within 24 hours of being banned, there will be 30 new recipes of DIY juice, you can count on it.

How do you extract nicotine from potatoes?

 

[Kate]

Are you Irish Denni?

 

[Denni]

Well i just had the mini band for sale in my shop in Inverness ....I even offerd to only sell the mini to customers with NO NIC Carts ..... One reason they said i can NOT sell the MINI CIG was because >>>> Its a product potentially coming under the definition of a medicinal product... AND he also said it could be used in the same way a a nicotien inhaler..... I told them that the WHO have not passed them as a medical product, so thats not what it is..... Didnt make much diffrance to him....They have giving me a suspension order and said i should get an answer as to whether or not i can sell it again in its curnet state with in about a week to 10 days..... The said they have to make some calls to find out what category it falls into.

Oh damn...

You could probably get away with it by selling the (super-)mini as a joke cigarette, particularly with a blue/green LED...

 

[pillbox38]

Rusty's man at trading standards CCed us in on the email.

It was suspended for these reasons.
1. No Model number.
2. No MG content on the nicotine cartridge box.
2. No manufacturers or suppliers name on the kit or cartridge box.
4..No sell by date on the cartridges.
5. Manual refers to weaning yourself of nicotine by a reduction in nicotine strength cartridges. IE NRT.
6. manual refers to WHO.

Made me consider my wicked fluids, these have, ingedients, mg level, warnings.

But no sell by date, and no contact number address, although they have web url on.

By the way, BBC Breakfast came today to film for an hour, it will go out early next week.. On the breakfast show.. Hope i didnt get to enthuiastic, we shall see when its run.

 

[Denni]

Are you Irish Denni?

Gosh, you're all online at once!

No, but we have enough spuds here in the UK

Be in competition with the crips industry though or is the nicotine in the leaves?

I'm gonna start an organic potato farm someday.

 

[rustylug]

At the momment they can not classify the product, but packinging is a bit of a prob but you can sort that problem out....The main reason is they dont know what it is and they said they would have to call the MHRA ...Even though i told them the MHRA dont regard it as a medical devise ...Im not selling it as such and told them that im not making such claims .... Dont get me wrong the guy was ok ..Just doing his job...But if T/Standards cant put the e-cig into a catogry then a lot more of us could face this problem in future.... I dont know if the same rules apply for internet trading and i was just wondering if anyone on the forum was selling e-cigs in a shop enviroment like my self.

 

[pillbox38]

Rusty....You had a big the "worlds best quit smoking sign up"

That was like holdong a red rag up to a bull.

MHRA, arent as yet interested as long as we dont sell it as an NRT product.

My understanding of the email and attached document was packaging compliance and nothing else.. it might be worth us suppliers noting on our packaging that as yet the ECig has not been recognised as a quit smoking aid.But what it actually is is a healthier alternative to smoking tobacco based cigarettes.

Advising consumers for quit smoking advice and NRT therapies they must contact their GP and use the Proven NRT therapies that are available.

With an additional disclaimer that the electronic cigarette is not to be used or thought of as an aid to smoking cessation.

 

[Denni]

Rusty....You had a big the "worlds best quit smoking sign up"

That was like holdong a red rag up to a bull.

MHRA, arent as yet interested as long as we dont sell it as an NRT product.

My understanding of the email and attached document was packaging compliance and nothing else.. it might be worth us suppliers noting on our packaging that as yet the ECig has not been recognised as a quit smoking aid.But what it actually is is a healthier alternative to smoking tobacco based cigarettes.

Advising consumers for quit smoking advice and NRT therapies they must contact their GP and use the Proven NRT therapies that are available.

With an additional disclaimer that the electronic cigarette is not to be used or thought of as an aid to smoking cessation.

I wouldn't actually claim that it is a healthier alternative to smoking tobacco. This is probably true, but it would mean that these guys want to see proof!

A statement that it hasn't been recognised and that they should seek GP advice for quitting should be enough, and it would actually be a good thing.

But the manual needs rewording and a contact number is probably required (as well as expiry dates etc for carts)

 

[rustylug]

Could get away with it for a while untill the re-wright their suspension saying somthing like .... Banning the selling of all e-cig products, kits, chargers, batteries ..etc etc ....I dont think selling this produt as a joke would do the product any favours.... Sorry Denni.

Oh damn...

You could probably get away with it by selling the (super-)mini as a joke cigarette, particularly with a blue/green LED...

 

[pillbox38]

Denni>>>>We have proof, via test reports that state other than the nicotine there is no other hazardous or carcinogenic substances in the fluid.

A tobacco based cigarette cannot claim this..

we can i believe rightly and justly make this claim. I told the BBc that it was a healthier alternative and gave an example of a user whose lung capacity 2 weeks ago was 80 now is 121.

Those figures are not false but a true statement. Anecdotal evidence maybe, but better than none at all.

Trading standards are scratching around trying to find a category for the ecig but they dont seem able at present...So it was hang rustys kit on packaging.

Fair point as its a digestibule substance the device uses. But i suspect if we gave rusty one of our re packaged kits that are 3/4 the way there and the next order i place they will conform fully to the requirements of the email.

They will allow the sale, as by law they have no other option...

 

[rustylug]

Pillbox ... your are right about the sign ...Thats because at that time i didnt know any better and have learned a lot since joining this forum ... That said about the sign, He did not say anything about it today, i have since taken it of the stand anyway...He seemed more concerned about trying to find a catagory for e-cigs to fit into ...And i know this was not said in the e-mails that we got so it seem a bit strange that he would have said this to me yet not put it in an e-mail..... Why on earth would he be getting in contact with the MHRA about packaging .... I think maybe the MHRA is the next step he will take after the packaging problem is sorted !!!!

Rusty....You had a big the "worlds best quit smoking sign up"

That was like holdong a red rag up to a bull.

MHRA, arent as yet interested as long as we dont sell it as an NRT product.

My understanding of the email and attached document was packaging compliance and nothing else.. it might be worth us suppliers noting on our packaging that as yet the ECig has not been recognised as a quit smoking aid.But what it actually is is a healthier alternative to smoking tobacco based cigarettes.

Advising consumers for quit smoking advice and NRT therapies they must contact their GP and use the Proven NRT therapies that are available.

With an additional disclaimer that the electronic cigarette is not to be used or thought of as an aid to smoking cessation.

 

[Kate]

Rusty, if you sell it with a manual stating how to use it as NRT and that it is endorsed for smoking cessation by WHO then you are trying to sell an unapproved medical device. In other words RTFM ... (Read The F...riendly Manual)

The packaging and manuals can be redone. The eliquid and cartridges can be properly labelled although getting use by dates from the manufacturer might be difficult. Inconvenient but not impossible, hopefully Trading Standards won't insist on this being done before you get a chance to sell existing stock and get new measures put in place. No ban so far, just insistence on compliance with existing trading laws.

Pillbox, Denni is right, if you say it's safer or healthier then you might be asked to prove it. I don't think you need a long disclaimer, just to see a doctor for smoking cessation advice and this device is not a proven NRT. You might get away with saying that anecdotal evidence suggests that some people can cut down or quit with the help of esmoking.

Let us know how to see your TV interview won't you.

 

[pillbox38]

Tv interview is on BBC Breakfast... Next week, but i have a tendency to get a little carried away, its the salesman in me...He is difficult to keep in check, i suspect some on here will be cringing as i go on about what a fabulous product this is as an aid to a healthier lifestyle...Did i naughtily mention NRT in an attempt to get the regulators to offer a compliance soloution...mmmm i might have

But hell i would rather get hung for being a WOLF than a sheep.

 

[rustylug]

Kate ... I was selling it with the manual that comes wth all DSE901 kits which makes a ref to WHO ...Now been marked over with a BIG BLACK MARKER PEN .... But the manual also gives ADVISE on how to cut down on your nicotien intake .... Is this bit of the manual in breach of regulations !!!

Rusty, if you sell it with a manual stating how to use it as NRT and that it is endorsed for smoking cessation by WHO then you are trying to sell an unapproved medical device. In other words RTFM ... (Read The F...riendly Manual)

The packaging and manuals can be redone. The eliquid and cartridges can be properly labelled although getting use by dates from the manufacturer might be difficult. Inconvenient but not impossible, hopefully Trading Standards won't insist on this being done before you get a chance to sell existing stock and get new measures put in place. No ban so far, just insistence on compliance with existing trading laws.

Pillbox, Denni is right, if you say it's safer or healthier then you might be asked to prove it. I don't think you need a long disclaimer, just to see a doctor for smoking cessation advice and this device is not a proven NRT. You might get away with saying that anecdotal evidence suggests that some people can cut down or quit with the help of esmoking.

Let us know how to see your TV interview won't you.