E liquid to be banned ????
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In the first case you assume e-cigarettes are not just another consumer
product that should fall under the existing laws concerning such products.
First let's show they are in fact causing harm then let the studies begin.
In the second case you assume diketones are escaping from the viscous
liquid they dispersed and suspended in and causing harm as they would
when suspended in ambient air at over 5000 ppm when mixing occurred.
Mike
i would agree completely with you if it wasnt for the fact that ejuice contains nicotine. i do understand that not all ejuice contains nicotine. however, you do have to admit that if it never contained nicotine there wouldnt have been as much concern about the safety for the general population. i am speaking strictly from a public perspective which is what special interest organizations are leveraging to garner support regarding ejuice regulation.
im not assuming anything. however to ensure that there are no pollutants released which are byproducts of the flavoring manufacture process testing is necessary. testing the flavoring itself is much easier than testing the final product from each and every company which produces (essentially just mixes) ejuice.
Nicotine has not been an issue with tobacco since the 1964 Surgeon Generals Report
on Smoking stated as much.
Industrial processes in the making of flavours has no bearing. When the process
is done,all you have are flavours.
Mike
if the flavors are made correctly that is the case. if i make flavor in my basement with basic supplies and hardware it isnt the case at all. and you can make these flavors at home if you want. anything a highschool chem class can do you can do too.
And to date this has harmed whom that vapes?
Mike
well, i hope nobody has been stupid enough to try and make a flavor in their basement. however, the long term effects of those chemicals have yet to be determined. if you look at the short term side effects of alcohol consumption it doesnt look too bad. however, look at the long term result of chronic drinking and thats when you see liver failure happening. so yes, in the short term it has not been an issue. long term.... who knows.
At the end of the day all we are doing here is taking up this servers bandwidth, that's about it - majority of people only seem to care about the latest atty/mod.
I am out, have a good one guys
But these threads are great for the vendors...
Don't believe what you are told, research and find the actual facts, if there are any to find.
Rabbit the shop owner was referring to the tobacco products directive directly article 20, now the shop owner may have over reacted a little but at this point in time we don't know what the full implications will be but we do know it will severely limit vaping within the EU. Margucci whilst I get what your saying (though doubt it happens to any measurable degree) opening the legislative door too much and you end up with article 20, it is impossible to legislate for every tiny variance of any activity and remain balanced and practical. Most of the company's making flavour concentrate are open about ingredients and aware of the issues regarding them. As to long-term damage it is easier then ever before for scientists to extrapolate damage and the knowledge and tools to do it exist today which they didn't before. If alcohol and tobacco were new on the market products today they wouldn't last a year as testing and the science behind it has advance massively from the past.
But "chronic drinking" i.e., alcoholism, affects only 10%, at most 15%, of the population... so you want to ban it for everyone else? That's pretty draconian. I'm a recovering alcoholic, and I don't even believe in that.
The short-term effect of alcohol is pretty freaking horrible if one is behind the wheel of a car.
It is NOT the same situation, AT ALL, with anything that's in e-cigarettes. Nicotine at vaping levels IS NOT DANGEROUS. And the flavors? Well, I suppose there MIGHT be a risk... BUT NOT NEARLY AS BIG A RISK AS CONTINUING TO SMOKE TOBACCO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Andria
And people abusing painkillers is also a small portion of the population. Dies that mean that everyone should have unregulated access to morphine? By your logic anything which us less dangerous than anything else and is consumed byba small portion of the population should be legal. I am not saying that anything should be banned at all. I am saying that it would help gain public acceptance if testing was done.
Perhaps you can look at this as a positive. I know many people who are weary of vaping because they doubt the long term safety. They are sceptical because for so long tobacco was thought and advertised to be safe. Now we know that isn't the case. I know many people who would vape who never smoked when they feel more comfortable with the testing procedures used. The overwhelming majority of vapers are ex smokers. Of course it's better for you. However the public is concerned about exposing people who don't already smoke to a potentially harmful hobby. If those people can be brought to believe that vaping can be looked at as a pass time separate from smoking (and not as a means to quit tobacco) that would open up a huge market and would be amazing for the industry.
Perhaps you can look at this as a positive. I know many people who are weary of vaping because they doubt the long term safety. They are sceptical because for so long tobacco was thought and advertised to be safe. Now we know that isn't the case. I know many people who would vape who never smoked when they feel more comfortable with the testing procedures used. The overwhelming majority of vapers are ex smokers. Of course it's better for you. However the public is concerned about exposing people who don't already smoke to a potentially harmful hobby. If those people can be brought to believe that vaping can be looked at as a pass time separate from smoking (and not as a means to quit tobacco) that would open up a huge market and would be amazing for the industry.
Sorry margucci your last post has blown your argument for me, I couldn't care less about people vaping as a new leisure activity vaping for me is a smoking cessation activity and useful for other medical conditions and it's exactly that aspect that gains vaping more support not less. Vaping is very effective at dealing with getting off tobacco and some therapists are getting good results on dietary issues vaping is improving and will prolong life for many people if you think that resonates less then some people want to vape for social reasons then this is a pointless debate. I'm not opposing the tpd for me I'm set got enough nic in the freezer for 10+ years but it has to be a viable option available to the tens of millions of those currently smoking.
Why Do Ex-Smoker Vapers Argue Vaping may be Hazardous Long Term?
If this road is of such concern, WHY are you Vaping? Why have you not moved on to other avenues away from Smoking?
If this road is of such concern, WHY are you Vaping? Why have you not moved on to other avenues away from Smoking?
Why Do Ex-Smoker Vapers Argue Vaping may be Hazardous Long Term?
If this road is of such concern, WHY are you Vaping? Why have you not moved on to other avenues away from Smoking?
Thank you! I didn't think anyone here was being forced at gunpoint to vape.
Andria
for reference i have never smoked. i vape because i want to. in my opinion the risks are negligible and i enjoy the taste and experience. as a result i vape 0% nic.
i am most familiar with the vaping scene in canada (where i live, obviously). here the concern about vaping isnt directed towards people who are using vaping to stop smoking. in fact most people think that use is fairly obvious. the concern all revolve around vaping as a recreational activity. more specifically minors and young adults vaping. these concerns take two forms:
1) that vaping is a gateway to smoking. this is bull and the whole "gateway ______" is so overused its hilarious. however that is the main reasoning for limiting its sale to especially minors.
2) that it will harm people in general. the general public could care less about you using it to quit smoking or some random 20 year old just using it because he likes the flavor. in fact the general consensus from people who dont smoke (the majority of the population at this point) is that people who chose to smoke tobacco made that decision and it has consequences. they are far more concerned about a potential resurgence of smoking in the form of vaping. this will particularly affect minors (in their opinion). all of the legislation i have seen in my area is about saving the children, saving the general public, saving old people, and saving everyone except smokers. if you want your freedom to use vaping as a way to quit smoking you need to assure the general public that it will not hurt people. whether those are children or people walking by on the street. aside from the tobacco lobby and government self interest (tax dollars....) the people who oppose vaping are those who do not smoke. they dont understand your (smokers) situation and they are not willing to put themselves into your shoes (empathy doesnt exist anymore). all they see is something that may potentially harm themselves or someone they care about and they want it gone. show them they have nothing to worry about and you will win the war. in canada at least corporations dont control the government completely (yet).
and as for myself and people like me who have not smoked but choose to vape, we are your best advocates. somehow that fact is lost at times.
i am most familiar with the vaping scene in canada (where i live, obviously). here the concern about vaping isnt directed towards people who are using vaping to stop smoking. in fact most people think that use is fairly obvious. the concern all revolve around vaping as a recreational activity. more specifically minors and young adults vaping. these concerns take two forms:
1) that vaping is a gateway to smoking. this is bull and the whole "gateway ______" is so overused its hilarious. however that is the main reasoning for limiting its sale to especially minors.
2) that it will harm people in general. the general public could care less about you using it to quit smoking or some random 20 year old just using it because he likes the flavor. in fact the general consensus from people who dont smoke (the majority of the population at this point) is that people who chose to smoke tobacco made that decision and it has consequences. they are far more concerned about a potential resurgence of smoking in the form of vaping. this will particularly affect minors (in their opinion). all of the legislation i have seen in my area is about saving the children, saving the general public, saving old people, and saving everyone except smokers. if you want your freedom to use vaping as a way to quit smoking you need to assure the general public that it will not hurt people. whether those are children or people walking by on the street. aside from the tobacco lobby and government self interest (tax dollars....) the people who oppose vaping are those who do not smoke. they dont understand your (smokers) situation and they are not willing to put themselves into your shoes (empathy doesnt exist anymore). all they see is something that may potentially harm themselves or someone they care about and they want it gone. show them they have nothing to worry about and you will win the war. in canada at least corporations dont control the government completely (yet).
and as for myself and people like me who have not smoked but choose to vape, we are your best advocates. somehow that fact is lost at times.
The shop owner wasn't saying e liquid was poisonous to vape but if a child drank it etc. Even are local veterinary has a poster on the wall warning of pets ingesting it can be fatal. I'm always careful where I store my liquids. People have bleach and such in there homes so what's the difference. Just need to be responsible
I wonder, does the Vet have that poster next to one of a Chocolate Bar?(dogs)
OR a bottle to TeaTree oil?(cats)
Yes, many things we use throughout life Can kill in Lethal Volumes. e-liquids are not targeted as a warning, but rather as a way to make a Public display and instill Fear in the uninformed.
Given one of the big antz arguments is the gateway bilge you do realise margucci your step one according to them you've started vaping when you never smoked so your more likely to transition to tobacco no offence but an explosion of your brand of vaping would be disastrous for vaping not some amazing boom to it in support. As to your point about public perceptions only those who don't bother to do minimum internet research believe what you've said they do as the study on vaping effects on non vapers has been completed and states there is zero risk to non vapers from vaping. Trouble with recreational vapers is as your proving to a point a blinkered view of vaping and it's many aspects and being more concerned about the aspects that can be sorted out later the immediate threat is that vaping in it's current form will not survive the next couple of years. As I said for you it's a bit of a dent socially but for many millions the consequences are more far reaching.
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