What if they vape?

[Vocalek]

Why stop with only discriminating against people who are using nicotine to ward off depression and anxiety? Shouldn't they also be testing for all known anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs?

And it is well known that nicotine helps people with attention deficits. They definitely should be testing to ensure that nobody who uses any of the following can get a job there;

Adderall and Adderall XR
Concerta
Dexedrine
Focalin and Focalin XR
Metadate CD and Metadate ER
Methylin
Ritalin, Ritalin LA
Vyvanse
Desoxyn

They should also make sure that nobody who takes Cognex, Exelon, Razadyne, Namenda, or Aricept to help with memory loss is permitted to work.

Finally, sometimes problems with attention, memory, or concentration are caused by low thyroid hormones. So just to cover all the bases they should refuse to hire anyone who takes Synthroid.

New slogan: You don't have to be a good performer to work here. We don't care if you're forgetful and distracted, as long as you don't take any drug that we disapprove of.

 

[MoonRose]

Why stop with only discriminating against people who are using nicotine to ward off depression and anxiety? Shouldn't they also be testing for all known anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs?

And it is well known that nicotine helps people with attention deficits. They definitely should be testing to ensure that nobody who uses any of the following can get a job there;

Adderall and Adderall XR
Concerta
Dexedrine
Focalin and Focalin XR
Metadate CD and Metadate ER
Methylin
Ritalin, Ritalin LA
Vyvanse
Desoxyn

They should also make sure that nobody who takes Cognex, Exelon, Razadyne, Namenda, or Aricept to help with memory loss is permitted to work.

Finally, sometimes problems with attention, memory, or concentration are caused by low thyroid hormones. So just to cover all the bases they should refuse to hire anyone who takes Synthroid.

New slogan: You don't have to be a good performer to work here. We don't care if you're forgetful and distracted, as long as you don't take any drug that we disapprove of.

But those are all FDA and Pharmaceutically pushed legal mind and mood altering drugs. Since they can't make nicotine a drug controlled by the pharmaceutical companies only then it must be banned in all it's forms as far as they are concerned.

 

[Thulium]

Why stop with only discriminating against people who are using nicotine to ward off depression and anxiety? Shouldn't they also be testing for all known anti-depressants and anti-anxiety drugs?

Why stop with discriminating against only nicotine? Because they don't own all the patents for it.

And it is well known that nicotine helps people with attention deficits. They definitely should be testing to ensure that nobody who uses any of the following can get a job there;

Adderall and Adderall XR
Concerta
Dexedrine
Focalin and Focalin XR
Metadate CD and Metadate ER
Methylin
Ritalin, Ritalin LA
Vyvanse
Desoxyn

...How do you expect Johnson & Johnson, Pfizer, and GlaxoSmithKline Hospitals to sell any of that stuff if people have smoke-free alternative sources of nicotine?

They should also make sure that nobody who takes Cognex, Exelon, Razadyne, Namenda, or Aricept to help with memory loss is permitted to work.

Can't. Those "junkies" are protected by the ADAAA 2009. As amended, the ADA prohibits employment discrimination on the basis of a perceived disability, including by screenings for medications--even if you aren't epileptic, you can't be discriminated against on the basis of a screening for anti-seizure medication because that would be discriminating on the basis of a perceived disability.

Finally, sometimes problems with attention, memory, or concentration are caused by low thyroid hormones. So just to cover all the bases they should refuse to hire anyone who takes Synthroid.

New slogan: You don't have to be a good performer to work here. We don't care if you're forgetful and distracted, as long as you don't take any drug that we disapprove of.

Correction: "...as long as you don't use nicotine or other non-pharmaceutical drugs."

 

[tommy2bad]

Could they just be using this as an excuse to downsize staff numbers?

 

[DaveP]

People are absolutely going nuts over the habit of smoking. They'll talk about smokers through a mouthful of Big Mac and fries and comment on how smoking is killing thousands. And, those stupid people who smoke those electronic cigarettes are playing with fire. Who knows what we'll find in those that deform and kill folks, says the nurse as he puts the breathing treatment mask that delivers propylene glycol fog on his patient who has pneumonia.

The lady who puts on her makeup has no idea that PG is being smeared all over her face, and under her arms as she applies the gel deodorant to her underarms. The guy who buys his kid a sno-cone doesn't realize that the thickener in the sno-cone juice is the same thing that the guy across the playground is vaping in his ecig while his child plays. People in restaurants don't know that they are consuming PG in their salad dressing while they gripe about the guy with the fake cigarette at the next table.

It's all about education. I hope all of you have signed the White House petition to recognize Ecigs as an accepted alternative to smoking. One of the best things that could happen is a news story saying that President Obama has quit smoking and has switched to an electronic cigarette. You can bet the White House doctors will check it out thoroughly and approve it before he does.

https://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitions/!/petition/recognize-electronic-cigarettes-effective-alternative-smoking-and-support-job-creation-new-industry/57vtB0QK?utm_source=wh.gov&utm_medium=shorturl&utm_campaign=shorturl

If you copy the link to paste in other forums, right click and select "copy link location" instead of just highlighting and copying to make sure you get the full link.

 

[Skwerl]

Speaking of the prohibitionists....we tried that before. Didn't end well. 13 years later the people saw sense and repealed the 18th Amendment- but only after the damage was done. The progressive vision is anything but; it hinders progress, and has no vision- its all nanny state all the time. Its always cloaked in 'its for your own good' or 'for the children' but is purely verbal excrement and fundraising for whatever half-witted project they can come up with. [I'm looking at you NJ & AZ- funding SCHIP with exorbitant ciggy taxes, then practically criminalizing them so that the smokers start quitting en masse.]
The problem with this type of sin tax/prohibition/nanny statism is that it comes at you in little bites- nibbling about the edges. It doesn't bother you until you are on the edge thats getting nibbled.
I implore you all to get as many folks-current-former-nonsmokers into the mix as possible- let them know how the e-cig has worked for you- get them to sign every petition protecting our right to this glorious alternative to Satan's stanky colon sticks. As it stands now we are out-gunned and out moneyed- especially by the likes of the American Cancer Society, Big Pharma, and their legions of professional whiners. Our only recourse is to get behind org's like CASAA and keep flappin our gums to all that will listen. Besides if they win on this, where will their ire point after? Cake? Fries? The professional whiners need outrage or they wither and die; it is the manure they justify their existence with and is in no danger of extinction.

 

[Jake1]

I'm a paramedic/firefighter in GA. This is an outrage! What ever happened to this being a "free" country. Nic is legal. If you aren't aloud to do it at work that's fine, but they want to limit a section of health care professionals' rights off duty also? Give me a break. Medics are already few and far between due to crappy pay and a tough job. If this goes through there will be even less medics to respond to emeregencies.

 

[DaveP]

I'm a paramedic/firefighter in GA. This is an outrage! What ever happened to this being a "free" country. Nic is legal. If you aren't aloud to do it at work that's fine, but they want to limit a section of health care professionals' rights off duty also? Give me a break. Medics are already few and far between due to crappy pay and a tough job. If this goes through there will be even less medics to respond to emeregencies.

It's a shame that people have to weed out those who they don't agree with by making rules that push out good people. There was a time when my doctor smoked in the examining room. We smoked in the waiting room and my doctor then told me that when he went to a meeting with doctors, there was a smoky haze in the room. That was bad for all, but no one tried to run them out of the business.

Flip to 2011, smoker ratios have changed from 75% smokers to around 21% smokers. We are now in the minority. Maybe we can claim that as a plus ... naw. Smokers need to quit. Vapers should be applauded. I'm early retired now, but thinking about going back part time out of boredom.

What if fat people couldn't be hired? Well, that's discrimination. The medical profession tells us that overweight=heart attack risk. What if there were a test that determined high fat diet consumption? I'm afraid that many people would shriek in horror at the thought of not being hired because they tested positive for Big Macs!

From the article:

Volusia County's administration said the policy is a health issue and they do not want taxpayers to pay for expensive health care costs of county employees who smoke. County officials said they also believe they are not invading anyone's privacy.

What about people who are overweight? That's next!

The worst part is that some smokers I've known don't smoke at work. Those people will test positive for nicotine and be worked through the system and out the door.

 

[rothenbj]

I'm a paramedic/firefighter in GA. This is an outrage! What ever happened to this being a "free" country. Nic is legal. If you aren't aloud to do it at work that's fine, but they want to limit a section of health care professionals' rights off duty also? Give me a break. Medics are already few and far between due to crappy pay and a tough job. If this goes through there will be even less medics to respond to emeregencies.

Jake it's already moving to jobs outside the medical field. When you start talking about over 30% of the adult population being discriminated against in the job market (smokers, smokeless users and pharma NRT users), you are making 10% unemployment look like a good number.

 

[DaveP]

You lose the tenured, experienced people when you do things like that and you put fear into the hearts of new hires that realize just how little experience matters when compared to salary levels. It's all about reducing head count and insurance costs. I'm paying big bucks in premiums for a life insurance policy I bought as a smoker.

Sometimes I think HR is given an ultimatum: "Find a way to cut employee numbers by 10% ... legally!" Then, you get the mantra from your boss that says, "Times are tough. We have to figure out how to do more with less".

 

[Vocalek]

Where is the evidence that using nicotine from a smoke-free source increases health risks? And if it does not increase health risks, how can it possibly increase health care costs?

This is a lie being used to persecute people, and the worst thing is that it doesn't really bring gain to anyone whatsoever. Even the employers that have dreamed up this obscene plot to stamp out nicotine use do not gain anything from it, aside from some smug sense of superiority. They reduce the size of the pool from which they can select competent employees.

 

[Jake1]

All these things won't matter to the Florida Political big-wigs until they have to call 911 for when they are having a heart attack. Then they may realize that they've made a mistake when a 19 y/o kid with little to no experience shows up as a medic. If my family needs help in an emergency, I want the most competent guy/gal and don't care what kind of nicotine product they're using. BTW there is a much larger % of tobacco users in public safety due to late nights, long shifts, and stress of the job. Shouldn't the gov't want to solve the problem at the root instead of demonizing people who have dedicated thier lives to helping members of the community?

 

[rothenbj]

There was a Dr Siegel blog entry a number of months ago about a nicotine ban at the Auckland Health Board where 35% of the 10,000 employees would not be eligible to work there-

The Rest of the Story: Tobacco News Analysis and Commentary: July 2011.

I did some research when I read this blog entry and posted the following-

This is a very interesting development. According to the latest New Zealand Tobacco Use Survey, the nurses at Auckland's District Health Board, which employs more than 10,000 people, smoke at a rate of 167% of the national average.

Tobacco Use in New Zealand: Key Findings from the 2009 New Zealand Tobacco Use Survey

Now the question arises, among a population of well educated, health professionals, why would their smoking rates be so much higher than the general population. When you consider that the vast majority of smokers are from the poorer, uneducated portions of the population according to those that establish such numbers, there is little logic in these numbers, unless:

1. Smoking rates have not fallen at a rate that is identified by surveys.
2. Those surveying want to be able to show progress where no progress exists (need to keep funding the war).
3. Nurses better understand the relative risks and are therefore not as concerned as the rest of the population.
4. Nurse' job stress is so great that they are an anomoly.

Any guesses? Mine would be Anti propaganda of some sort. It seems so prevalent these days.
Monday, July 18, 2011, 08:26:08 – Reply

rothenbj
On further review, I found this 2006 report-

http://journal.nzma.org.nz/journal/121-1284/3310/content.pdf



"13% of female and 20% of male nurses were smokers. The highest smoking
prevalences were among psychiatric nurses (26% male and 30% female nurses).
There has been a steady decline in cigarette smoking among doctors and nurses in
New Zealand since the 1960s and 1970s."

Since only around 8% of nurses are men, the quoted % of nurses who smoke is probably closer to 13% than 20%, according to this report. Even at 15%, that 35% represents a 233% increase in smoking among nurses from Auckland's District Health Board to the general population of nurses in NZ. Something doesn't smell right.

"Conclusions The results from the 2006 Census demonstrate that non-smoking among
doctors and nurses is increasingly the norm, around 90% of younger doctors have
never been regular smokers. The results show that it is possible to achieve very
substantial decreases in smoking prevalences and to establish smokefree cultures
among substantial occupational groups who are well informed about the degree of
risk, are aware of the reality of the health consequences of smoking, and work in a
substantially non-smoking environment."


The only way it appears possible to level off these discrepancies appears to be a move to the next step after not hiring smokers (and smokeless tobacco users and NRTusers and E Cig users) is to introduce interventions into the existing staff. Then you probably can support the 2006 report's numbers.

The only issue I could see with that approach is a potential reduction in quality employees, but that's a small price to pay for the movement. Unless you're a patient that is.

The only hope I can see in all this is that perhaps the ANTZ are moving so quickly that the general population will start the implications of their eugenic zealotry and stop it

 

[DaveP]

Doctors are always instructing patients to lose weight to lower their cholesterol and heart risks. Again, I predict that Fatties are next. If you aren't a good role model as a nurse because you are a female size 16 or a male who wears 42 waist pants, you may be in future jeopardy, regardless of your experience, achievements, and education.

Robots will take over these duties in the far future. Humans won't be needed, anyway. This brings to mind the cartoon movie, "Wally".

A Health Board member defended the decision, arguing that: "We need our staff to be good role models and not smoke themselves."

 

[TxParamedic]

As a health care worker myself I'll say that in my experience more of us smoke than the general population. The attitude kinda breaks down to "sure smoking takes years off your life but how many years do you want to live in a nursing home?"

 

[Vap0rJay]

Some of the Catholic hospitals here have already stopped hiring people
who use nicotine at home.
They are forcing the employees to take blood tests to see if they nicotine in their systems even though it has nothing to do with working at the hospitals.
We have already descended into madness....
C.B.

If I were ever asked for a blood test for -nicotine- of all things, I would demand one from the employer... "because I want to run some test of my own" -- and tell them "last thing I want to do is work for an ..., and I want sequence your DNA to double check your predisposition... maybe see if your bi-polar... I mean I'm not asking anything from you, you're not asking from me so -- what’s the big deal?"

I mean, knowing I'd test + for nic there no point in not having fun with it eh?? Satire makes for fantastic argument

 

[tommy2bad]

Satire makes for fantastic argument

As Tom Lehrer said "I quit satire because I realized I could never match the achievement of German cabaret in the 30's"