What is the law as far as selling nicotine?

[markarich159]

Are you sure about that?



I don't think it's even possible to fit 18mg of nicotine into 1ml of liquid, just because 18ml of pure nicotine weighs *about* 18mg

Your confusing units. density(specific gravity) is Grams per ml, not mg per ml. your off by a factor of 1,000. The density of water is 1g/ml NOT 1mg/ml. A mg is so small, it's 1/1000th a a gram. you can't see a mg of anything with the naked eye. Beleive me, I went to school for 6 years for this.

 

[twoshadetod]

You are right. I was wrong.

Help me recheck this then so I don't tombstone myself:

If I got hold of 100mg nicotine in 100ml solution ("pure"), and dump it into 2000ml of PG. Will I get a little over 2Liters of 48(ish)mg? or 4.76% nic?

Your confusing units. density(specific gravity) is Grams per ml, not mg per ml. your off by a factor of 1,000. The density of water is 1g/ml NOT 1mg/ml. A mg is so small, it's 1/1000th a a gram. you can't see a mg of anything with the naked eye. Beleive me, I went to school for 6 years for this.

 

[HighTech]

Are you sure about that?



I don't think it's even possible to fit 18mg of nicotine into 1ml of liquid, just because 18ml of pure nicotine weighs *about* 18mg

Markarich is correct, it is expressed as mg per 1 mL.

14 mg juice is 14 mg of nic per 1 mL. A 30 mL bottle of 14 mg juice would contain 14 x 30 = 420 mg of nic in the entire bottle.

 

[HighTech]

You are right. I was wrong.

Help me recheck this then so I don't tombstone myself:

If I got hold of 100mg nicotine in 100ml solution ("pure"), and dump it into 2000ml of PG. Will I get a little over 2Liters of 48(ish)mg? or 4.76% nic?

If you wanted 48 mg juice and wanted to end up with 2000mL, you would need to mix 96 GRAMS of pure 100% nicotine to the mix. (not to get too exact with the figures)

2000mL x 4.8% = 96 Grams. But as you know, 100% pure nicotine is highly deadly and would require full hazmat gear and proper safety guidelines...

 

[markarich159]

If you wanted 48 mg juice and wanted to end up with 2000mL, you would need to mix 96 GRAMS of pure 100% nicotine to the mix. (not to get too exact with the figures)

2000mL x 4.8% = 96 Grams. But as you know, 100% pure nicotine is highly deadly and would require full hazmat gear and proper safety guidelines...

Hightech is correct. You would start with the density of the pure nicotine (which is 1.01gm/ml) so close enough to 1 to consider 1gm nic=1ml nic. If you wanted a 2000ml solution of 48mg/ml(48 X 2000 = 96000mg or 96g). Which would be (according to the density of pure nic) almost exactly 96ml pure nicotine. You would want to be extremely careful as the toxic dose of nicotine is 0.5-1mg/kg body weight(so 40-80mg which is an extremely small amount could kill you- remember pure nicotine can travel thru skin) So I wouldn't try this at home. You would carefully measure out 96ml of pure nic and add it to a large volumetric flask and qs it with PG to 2000ml(that is add a sufficient quantity of PG to bring the total volume to 2000ml.) Again DO NOT DO THIS unless you have taken the precautions mentioned by Hightech.

 

[twoshadetod]

Good, I wanted to make sure that part of my math was right as I replying in a few threads where people were talking about 1 drop killing you, with info along the lines of you'd need over a liter of 48mg to get the lethal dose.

 

[twoshadetod]

I don't have a volumetric flask so I would just dump the bottle(100ml) into 2 liters of pg, to get 2100ml, and a 47.6mg - this is to limit my exposure to the nicotine.

What I'm curious about is how does it remain mixed? How do you ensure the bottom or top "part" isn't pure nicotine? Does it stay "mixed" at suggested storage temps?

This is all theory craft.

 

[markarich159]

I don't have a volumetric flask so I would just dump the bottle(100ml) into 2 liters of pg, to get 2100ml, and a 47.6mg - this is to limit my exposure to the nicotine.

What I'm curious about is how does it remain mixed? How do you ensure the bottom or top "part" isn't pure nicotine? Does it stay "mixed" at suggested storage temps?

This is all theory craft.

You could do that to limit exposure. The resulting solution will not be exactly 2100(due to mixing to unlike liquids- the volumes are usually not exactly additive) but for the sake of argument, close enough. Nicotine in it's pure form is completely miscible in water, and so is PG. Since they are both water soluble, they will both be soluble with each other and form a solution which will not break(come apart). So, yes, they will stay mixed.
Again, do NOT do this unless you've taken the proper precautions.

 

[devDelay]

Nicotine is NOT a drug or controlled substance. It is an organic pesticide. Simply put, a poison. And its sold in bulk as a pesticide (poison).

Yet, according to the logic of the FDA, all drugs are also poison?

How does the law define a drug?

The FD&C Act defines drugs, in part, by their intended use, as "articles intended for use in the diagnosis, cure, mitigation, treatment, or prevention of disease" and "articles (other than food) intended to affect the structure or any function of the body of man or other animals" [FD&C Act, sec. 201(g)(1)].

Are poisons intended to affect the structure or any function of the body?

No, but they do because they are poison.

Regular cigarettes are tobacco products now to be eventually regulated by the FDA that contain nicotine and other added poisons and are or at least should be labeled as such... But they are NOT subject to FDA approval (FDA are not authorized to ban them via the new bill). You'd think that all manufacturers would have to get a new drug approval because something has been added. Once again, defying all logic.

Electronic cigarette cartridges and liquids, or at least ones that would not be considered drug devices or tobacco products contain glycerin, flavor and poison...nicotine distilled from tobacco (or some other plant) and ARE labeled as such.

But if you mix a drug with something else it must then have new drug approval? Ok, so what about poison? No wait, poisons are drugs and not food? Can't foods be poison or drugs? Ah the logical fallacies of the FDA are limitless it seems.

What other products are sold as a known poison to be intentionally ingested and not subject to FDA approval?

The moral of the story is, you can intentionally ingest poison or more commonly known as 'drugs' through only FDA approved methods.

 

[markarich159]

Nicotine is NOT a drug or controlled substance. It is an organic pesticide. Simply put, a poison. And its sold in bulk as a pesticide (poison).

Yet, according to the logic of the FDA, all drugs are also poison?


Are poisons intended to affect the structure or any function of the body?

No, but they do because they are poison.

Regular cigarettes are tobacco products now to be eventually regulated by the FDA that contain nicotine and other added poisons and are or at least should be labeled as such... But they are NOT subject to FDA approval (FDA are not authorized to ban them via the new bill). You'd think that all manufacturers would have to get a new drug approval because something has been added. Once again, defying all logic.

Electronic cigarette cartridges and liquids, or at least ones that would not be considered drug devices or tobacco products contain glycerin, flavor and poison...nicotine distilled from tobacco (or some other plant) and ARE labeled as such.

But if you mix a drug with something else it must then have new drug approval? Ok, so what about poison? No wait, poisons are drugs and not food? Can't foods be poison or drugs? Ah the logical fallacies of the FDA are limitless it seems.

What other products are sold as a known poison to be intentionally ingested and not subject to FDA approval?

The moral of the story is, you can intentionally ingest poison or more commonly known as 'drugs' through only FDA approved methods.

The "intended use" was snuck into the act to skirt around the fact that ALL chemicals affect the structure and function of a body to some extent and, therefore, can be used to diagnose, cure, mitigate, etc.... I remember a very famous quote (I can't remeber who it was by) I learned back in Pharmacy School, it went something like this-"All substances are poisons, it's the dose that is the critical factor" or something like that. If you think about it , it's true. Even water can be a "poison". You can drink so much water at one time, this will cause severe interstitial hyponatremia(lowering of fluid sodium) which will stop nerve conduction and you will die.

 

[twoshadetod]

Might have been

Paracelsus, sometimes called the father of toxicology, wrote:[citation needed]


"All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."

Stolen from wiki

 

[markarich159]

Might have been



Stolen from wiki

Yup, that's it , thank you

 

[kno]

i was considering getting a business selling china imported e-cg kits, as well as at-the-kiosk made custom juices based of off china boge 48mg liquid

other than a tobacco sales liscence and incorporating my business - what legalities am i looking at here? am i selling a poison that will get me locked up/fined?

or can i just go ahead and contact the mall for kiosk pricing and info?

 

[trog100]

anyone that sell e cigs in the US is taking a legal risk.. a lawyer i am sure would say play safe dont do it..

its a good job some people dont bother asking the lawyer (or the pharmacist) else we would not have e cigs..

sometimes risks have to be taken and god bless those who take them... the odds are in their favour... its not likely they will be the one officialdom selects to hang draw and quarter as a public example to all... he he he

but then again they might be.. he he

trog

 

[markarich159]

as well as at-the-kiosk made custom juices based of off china boge 48mg liquid

At this point, in the USA, according to the FDA, you would have to register and get licensed as a drug manufacturer(since you are manufacturing a drug formulation currently regulated by them). Now the FDA is not currently enforcing this law(thus Johnson Creek, et al...)so you may be able to "get away with it" for some time, but that may change. Hopefully, this will not remain the case in the US, and nicotine eliquids will be classified in some different category in the furture.