What is up with this "Sub-ohm advisory"?

[440BB]

With the number of posts recommending sub ohm vaping and vape shops setting up fairly new vapers with sub ohm setups, the number of uninformed sub ohm vapers is likely growing. ECF may be the only place that they can gain access to information about the risks involved. I consider it our responsibility as a community to help people make decisions with all of the information.

It's far too common to see statements that "there are risks in everything" and "it's still safer than smoking". The same statements can be made about Chantix. I'm glad we have more information about the risks in using that product, so we can make informed decisions.

 

[rolygate]

@5150sick
The crucial issue is: what temperature is the atomiser coil running at?

A regular atty runs at 60C - 70C. I've seen various anecdotal tests of RBA coils run hot ('sub-ohm') and they are higher than this.

The fact that hotter coils produce higher quantities of unwanted materials is difficult to argue against given the various studies. I can understand if you want to argue this point, but you would need to produce (a) coil temperature measurements showing that the coil does not get hotter in inverse ratio to coil resistance reducing, and/or (b) some way of refuting the research that shows the higher the temperature goes the more likely it is that unwanted materials are produced in larger quantities.

What we need is a set of numbers for the temperatures of RBA coils run at various resistances / power levels; also research that quantifies toxicant generation vs coil temperature.

Note that thermal imaging temperature measurement cannot be used for this as the vapor masks the coil (it's been tried). Direct contact thermal probes are needed.


Our job
The general trend that we can see at ECF is that more people are vaping at lower coil resistances; and that this will expose them to more unwanted vapor materials. Alternatively (or maybe even in addition), they may pick up the worst possible usage modes from the previous mechmod era - stacked batts. Some may not be aware of any of this at all - especially newcomers to vaping - and some may be questioning the current fashions but not really knowing why extreme vaping may not be as safe as regular vaping.

It is our duty at ECF to ensure that people have the information they need. People can do what they like when they have that information. Allowing beginners to be persuaded to use sealed metal tube stacked-batt mech rigs running 0.1 ohm coils without any indication whatsoever that this is not normal vaping or has significantly elevated risk may be OK in your eyes, but it's not where we are at. Ignoring this issue would be entirely wrong, for us.


p.s. Please also keep in mind that the situation is constantly changing. Nothing changes faster than vaping. What is true today probably won't be in a year's time. That's why our advice changes, and, hopefully, improves.

That is very clear to see in some of the cycles of our advice, for example the metal tubemod design advice in the previous mechmod era of 2010-11. We started with a very conservative bottom vent hole or blow-off endcap design, but by the end of the era we had moved to large gas vent slots as a result of better data. Advice changes, naturally, as better data becomes available.

 

[Rocketpunk]

I've been seeing more and more people, both young and old, using unsafe batteries with sub-ohm setups, usually given to them or made for them by friends. Upon further questioning, it seems the majority of these users are fairly new to vaping and do not have the proper knowledge about battery safety. They neither care to research nor attempt to look it up. I am doing my best to bite my tongue here, because I see it two different ways, simultaneously: 1) these are young people jumping into the deep end of the pool before they know how to swim, and 2) do what thou wilt. I'm no one to judge. It's just scary, sometimes. I'm an old curmudgeon at age 35. My whole thing about vaping was quitting cigarettes. Now the hot-rodders are on scene and revving their engines (i.e., blowing sub-ohm clouds in front of complete noobs). This is both good and bad. Yes, it does help innovations within the industry, but it can also harm someone if they're not careful. It also sets up an inferiority complex with noob vapers. They see those clouds and immediately want that. Cloud chasing is not necessary to quit smoking. As much as I try to emphasize cloud chasing is more a hobby than anything else, it just doesn't sink in. "I just wanna blow huge clouds, man!" is the last thing I want to hear these days.

I either need to poop or get off the pot, but I'm on the fence when it comes to sub-ohm vaping. If you know what you're doing, more power to you. If you're not sure of your set-up or don't quite understand the principles of rebuilding sub-ohms, stop and do a little research.

I truly hate to be the miserable old vaper here, but it's not a matter of if, but when. Some immature kid's going to hurt himself. It will happen. Just a matter of time.

Ok, I've said my piece, and I'm shutting up now.

 

[Baditude]

I've been seeing more and more people, both young and old, using unsafe batteries with sub-ohm setups, usually given to them or made for them by friends. Upon further questioning, it seems the majority of these users are fairly new to vaping and do not have the proper knowledge about battery safety...

I either need to poop or get off the pot, but I'm on the fence when it comes to sub-ohm vaping. If you know what you're doing, more power to you. If you're not sure of your set-up or don't quite understand the principles of rebuilding sub-ohms, stop and do a little research.

I truly hate to be the miserable old vaper here, but it's not a matter of if, but when. Some immature kid's going to hurt himself. It will happen. Just a matter of time.

I understand your frustration. Just last week I was speaking casually with a novice vapor in a vape shop who was showing me his brand new mechanical mod. I noticed he had a rebuildable dripper on top, and asked what ohm he was using? He didn't know; he didn't have an ohm reader. So I borrowed the shop's ohm reader and measured the atty. It was 0.29 ohm.

So next I asked what battery he was using in the mod. He showed it to me. It was a pink Samsung ICR battery, not a high amp IMR/hybrid battery like he should be using. After explaining the difference in batteries and the risk he was putting himself in with that battery, he bought a Sony VTC4 on the spot. I told him it was mandatory to buy an ohm reader soon and to never fire a coil until he measured it for its resistance.

I didn't ask who made the coil or sold him his setup. He only told me he'd been using it for only a couple of hours and was there to find some juices at the sample bar. I do know that the vape shop where this took place did not sell him that particular mod because they don't sell it, and they have a strict policy to not build coils less than 1.0 ohm for customers.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/583531-beginners-ignorance-sub-ohm-vaping.html

Then you have this poster who didn't know there was a difference between 0.8 ohms and 0.08 ohms.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/coil-builds/583157-coil-questions.html

Batteries and mods can and have exploded, there is no question about that.

Exploding Mechanical Mod

I build sub-ohm coils myself -- o.6 ohms. But I know my Ohm's Law, always measure my coil's resistance, what batteries to use for safer vaping and for this application, and know what to recognize should I run into a short. I have read the Sub Ohm Advisory and am still making my mind up about the potential risks of toxic substances.

 

[DavidAmonettNashville]

Seems to me that "Sub ohming" needs an additional subset to include these new super low builds... 9 months ago a .5 coil was considered very low....and that was alarming to the prudent amongst us But now it's much ,much lower. I recently ran into a couple kids (<25) at a vape shop using mechs and Rda's and asked what ohm they were running and one guy told me his was 0.09 .... That's a full order of magnitude beneath sub-ohm and seems to deserve it's own subset of description. My point really is that .9 and .09 are VERY different animals and the guy who uses a .8 shouldn't be lumped in with the guy who's building a .08 -Dave

 

[rob33]

You'll don't get your "draws in a wad" over this. I'd be alot more concerned of how our food is being produced. It's more dangerous and causes more cancer than anything in the vaping community. The sub ohmers are going to do what they are doing no matter what they read, hear, or see. There's plenty of proof of that on here. Vaping at any level is still safer than any pack of cowboy killers. Hey, we got tomatoes on sale at the Aquaponic Farm this week, support your local organic farmer.