What is wrong with you?

[cramptholomew]

First they took away my right to vape indoors in government buildings, and I didn't say anything because I don't visit them often.

Then they took away my right to vape indoors in restaurants, and I didn't say anything because it sounded reasonable.

Then they took away my right to vape in the workplace, and I didn't say anything because I work from home.

Then they took away my right to buy e-cigs if I'm under 18, and I didn't say anything because I'm over 18, and it sounded reasonable, and surely they will stop regulating now.

Then they took away my right to vape in multi-unit housing, and I didn't say anything because I own a single family home.

Then they took away my right to vape outdoors, and I didn't say anything because I know how to stealth vape.

Then they took away my right to vape in my car with minors presents, and I didn't say anything because my children are old enough to drive themselves around now.

Then they took away my right to buy e-liquid without a childproof cap, and I didn't say anything because I have an adult child who can transfer my e-liquids for me into bottles my arthritic hands can use.

Then they took away my right to buy my favorite e-liquid without any special labeling requirements and my local B&M's supplier refused to comply, so he can't carry it, but I didn't say anything because I can buy direct on-line.

Then they took away my right to buy e-liquid at a reasonable price by taxing it to make it more expensive than cigarettes, and I didn't say anything because I switched to DIY and have several years untaxed nic supply in the freezer.

Then they took away my right to buy online, and I didn't say anything because I still have that big supply in the freezer.

Then they took away my right to buy any e-liquid at all, and I screamed because my nic supply ran out and I CAN'T GET ANYMORE! And I just found out my 18 year old has been smoking behind my back for four years, because he wasn't allowed to buy e-liquid but could always get cigarettes much easier, and I can't help him switch because I CAN'T GET ANYMORE!

But no one else cared because they had all returned to smoking.

Seriously. We need to do something "march on Washington" style. I've said this before: all the forums, and Facebook groups, and the ecig subreddit need to pool resources and take action. Some dip[MODERATED] senator from NY just wrote a bill to ban liquid altogether, because "children". Something is going to happen, and it's up to us which side it falls on. I don't know how to get us all in one place, to organize, but we need to do it.

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

Those are the guys that will whine the loudest when the bottle that cost them $15 last month costs $40 dollars this month, and the difference is all tax. And at that point, it's too late to do anything about it.

The tax sharks already smell blood in the water and are circling. The next move is up to us...pro action or reaction. Your choice.





Sent from the north 40 via soon to be outlawed or taxed to death messenger cow

So you don't consider my donations to CASSAA, my phone calls, my attendance at council meetings, or my letters and emails to my representatives to be action? I NEED to vape a sub ohm cloud everywhere I go?

 

[chebird]

Im so glad I read through this thread tonight, I see all of the excellent points being made, and I get the picture.

It so happens I told a women tonight that I'd quit smoking for almost 5 months now! she replies oh thats so good, good for you! I tell her I use e-vaping as my method of quitting, and immediatlyshe shouts oh you should be careful! Ive heard about the dangers... just saw how a dog died from eating the nicotine in one of those e-cigs! and I say it on CNN and Blah blah blah.

This all from a woman who doesn't even smoke mind you, telling me all about e-cigs! F ing unbelievable!

Well I just did join CASAA, and yes I can afford to donate some, even If I am laid off currently, because this Un informed, bad press has got to stop!!

Im putting away my dripper and going to bed tomorrow's another day to fight..

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

Can we define what a closet vaper is here for a minute? I don't vape in restaurants and I stealth vape during long shopping trips and at work. Other then that, I completely ignore the e cigarette bans for all out door areas. I whip put my MVP on the city streets with zero regard for the entrances of buildings or park regulations, I fully intend to openly vape on all NYC beaches all summer long. I don't blow clouds in enclosed areas because I treat people as I wish to be treated, and I would mind clouds of vaper at dinner. I also don't wear perfume as I mind when that's too strong on anyone as well. I'm not ashamed of vaping. I just know I'd mind, so I don't do it to others. I fail to see how I'm hurting the cause by following my own sense of what's right and what's wrong.

Edited to add - Yes, everyone l know knows I vape. I don't "hide"

 

[raspberryblu]

This whole issue isn't even about vaping for me. It's about my rights as a tax paying adult to make decisions for myself in a supposedly free society. I should be able to inhale cyanide if I want to. Oh wait, I can if I return to analogs.........

 

[Coldrake]

I believe there are about 7000 active ECF members. At $12 a year that would come to $84,000. CASAA would be overjoyed with that level of support which would be about a 500% increase over their current support.

There are over 20,000 active ECF members.

 

[PeppermintPatty]

I've always seen it as a big joke to be honest. I've never wanted to be sitting next to someone blowing clouds while I'm in my favorite restaurant trying to enjoy a meal. I think back to my high school days when, yes it was technically illegal for me to smoke, but as long as I didn't blow smoke in anyone's face I always seemed to get away with it. There may be a similar concept here. I could be wrong, but how in the heck is anyone going to control what I do in my car, outside, in the bathroom, or anywhere people aren't affected by what I do? And why do people want to vape in public? I think its obnoxious. If you cant light a cig up, why would it be ok to hit your ecig?

I get your concern, and I have mine as well. I just think there are two sides to this, and may be it wouldn't be such a bad thing if we put some regulation on where people vape...

Thoughts?

To me the issue is not vaping in public. While I know this may not be a popular opinion, I do not feel anyone has the right to clog up my breathing space. Vapor or smoke, don't care. I do not disagree with bans in public places, I just don't. That said, I am extremely concerned about the other issues about vaping, and there are many. The legality, classification, taxation and access to vaping/e cig material is being threatened. Here in CA we have legislation proposed to make it illegal to purchase online vaping products. I nearly shake with rage over this. How dare they restrict my ability to purchase a legal product from the vendor of my choice? I will share with you all the letter I sent to my own local district representative regarding this legislation....I am sure others may have a different point of view, but this is mine

----My name is Peppermint Patty (I used my real name ) I am a Registered Nurse that works out in the community in Placer county. I have a Bachelors in Nursing from our own Sac State as well as being certified as a Public Health Nurse. I have worked as an RN for the past 17 years.
Obviously a major health concern in this country is smoking and the use of tobacco products. I have seen over the years countless individuals dying and suffering from the effects of tobacco. Keeping this in mind I would like to broach the subject of electronic cigarettes and the current legislation plan to ban their online sales.
I implore you to help keep these devices easily available to the public. By eliminating the ability to get them online, we will be creating a major setback for those who want to quit smoking. These devices emit a combination of vegetable glycerine, propylene glycol (used in some inhaled medications) and sometimes a concentration of nicotine. While some do find nicotine addictive, it is *not* a carcinogen, it simply does not cause cancer.
The other ingredients found in cigarettes are the cancer and lung disease contributers. The ingredients used in e cigs are GRAS (generally recognized as safe) by the FDA. Admittedly, more research needs to be done on long term usage of e cigs, but initial findings are extremely positive.
The idea that children are drawn to e cigs is an old and tired concept. Children are drawn to most everything adults do, if they were to choose use of an e cig as an adult it would likely be a vast improvment over choosing smoking. It is time for folks who use nicotine to not be stigmatized any more than someone who drinks alcohol or caffeine, both can be just as detrimental to the body if not more so.
We have, in our lifetime, an alternative for smokers that could make one of the biggest positive changes in this nation's health we have seen. Please do not make it difficult to access. Best wishes.---

 

[Dave_in_OK]

If one is not prepared to fight for what they have - they won't have it very long.

 

[Kuljit]

I've always seen it as a big joke to be honest. I've never wanted to be sitting next to someone blowing clouds while I'm in my favorite restaurant trying to enjoy a meal. I think back to my high school days when, yes it was technically illegal for me to smoke, but as long as I didn't blow smoke in anyone's face I always seemed to get away with it. There may be a similar concept here. I could be wrong, but how in the heck is anyone going to control what I do in my car, outside, in the bathroom, or anywhere people aren't affected by what I do? And why do people want to vape in public? I think its obnoxious. If you cant light a cig up, why would it be ok to hit your ecig?

I get your concern, and I have mine as well. I just think there are two sides to this, and may be it wouldn't be such a bad thing if we put some regulation on where people vape...

Thoughts?

I'll half agree with you here. Smoking and vaping are very similar in appearance. There is still a stigma attached to the appearance (because smoking and second hand smoke can lead to LUNG CANCER). Vaping indoors in public in front of everyone and catching crap for it? Don't tell me you are surprised. The general public is still ignorant of what you are actually doing. They are not a different species. They will understand when it becomes more prevelent. In the meantime, a little more understanding of their point of view is in call. Being militant about your right to vape wherever you so please may just be adding fuel to the fire on this legislation. Be condiserate of other people's thoughts and feelings. Vape on.

Forgot to add the other half...legislation is a horrible idea. Any at all. Why you would suggest it is a good idea is beyond me.

 

[raspberryblu]

Is it acceptable to contact lawmakers if you do not reside in the affected area? I am more than willing to contact whoever but there are not yet any proposed laws or regulations in my state ( yet, or that I'm aware of).

 

[k702]

Is it acceptable to contact lawmakers if you do not reside in the affected area? I am more than willing to contact whoever but there are not yet any proposed laws or regulations in my state ( yet, or that I'm aware of).

get what you want to say to those in your state ready. And get involved in your local stuff. They aren't going to catch everything that happens on here and other sites right away. But you may be able to find out about stuff near you, and the sooner you can get involved the better. When vapers get into the conversation after the politicians have been talked to for a while it's gotta be much harder to talk sense into them.

 

[Kuljit]

Quote Originally Posted by pamdis:12749013
"First they took away my right to vape indoors in government buildings, and I didn't say anything because I don't visit them often.

Then they took away my right to vape indoors in restaurants, and I didn't say anything because it sounded reasonable.

Then they took away my right to vape in the workplace, and I didn't say anything because I work from home.

Then they took away my right to buy e-cigs if I'm under 18, and I didn't say anything because I'm over 18, and it sounded reasonable, and surely they will stop regulating now.

Then they took away my right to vape in multi-unit housing, and I didn't say anything because I own a single family home.

Then they took away my right to vape outdoors, and I didn't say anything because I know how to stealth vape.

Then they took away my right to vape in my car with minors presents, and I didn't say anything because my children are old enough to drive themselves around now.

Then they took away my right to buy e-liquid without a childproof cap, and I didn't say anything because I have an adult child who can transfer my e-liquids for me into bottles my arthritic hands can use.

Then they took away my right to buy my favorite e-liquid without any special labeling requirements and my local B&M's supplier refused to comply, so he can't carry it, but I didn't say anything because I can buy direct on-line.

Then they took away my right to buy e-liquid at a reasonable price by taxing it to make it more expensive than cigarettes, and I didn't say anything because I switched to DIY and have several years untaxed nic supply in the freezer.

Then they took away my right to buy online, and I didn't say anything because I still have that big supply in the freezer.

Then they took away my right to buy any e-liquid at all, and I screamed because my nic supply ran out and I CAN'T GET ANYMORE! And I just found out my 18 year old has been smoking behind my back for four years, because he wasn't allowed to buy e-liquid but could always get cigarettes much easier, and I can't help him switch because I CAN'T GET ANYMORE!

But no one else cared because they had all returned to smoking."

So who do I need to call? Where can we relay our stories other than CASAA? W T F
to do?

 

[B1sh0p]

I've voiced my opinion about this enough already. The thing that makes angrier than government intervention is fear mongering. I've done my part in allowing myself to vape as long as I want.

 

[Kuljit]

I've voiced my opinion about this enough already. The thing that makes angrier than government intervention is fear mongering. I've done my part in allowing myself to vape as long as I want.

"We're not fear mongering, this is really happening." - Thom ¥orke

For those who don't have the option of preparing for everything they are so familiar with being taken away, this is an issue. Good on you for being ready.

 

[pamdis]

I've voiced my opinion about this enough already. The thing that makes angrier than government intervention is fear mongering. I've done my part in allowing myself to vape as long as I want.

How is pointing out all the laws/regulations that are actually being proposed/passed fear-mongering?

Like Kuljit said, these things are really happening.

 

[Jman8]

I've always seen it as a big joke to be honest. I've never wanted to be sitting next to someone blowing clouds while I'm in my favorite restaurant trying to enjoy a meal. I think back to my high school days when, yes it was technically illegal for me to smoke, but as long as I didn't blow smoke in anyone's face I always seemed to get away with it. There may be a similar concept here. I could be wrong, but how in the heck is anyone going to control what I do in my car

Well, if you're driving your car in public, they have people who could control what you do in your car. Wouldn't be impossible.

outside

If you mean outside, in public, I'm thinking if they see you vaping, and there is stigma attached to it, much less laws against it, you'd be reported pretty quickly and busted for engaging in a rude / illegal activity.

in the bathroom, or anywhere people aren't affected by what I do?

You say people aren't affected, but you use the case of restaurant above to make the counterpoint which works for every place you say it ought to be okay. I vaped in a busy restaurant recently. Bothered zero people. Produced no lingering clouds. Yet, a fellow vaper like you and many others like you take issue with this. Making statements that seem like there is no reasonable way to vape in a restaurant or other indoor place without it being deemed bothersome to people.

And why do people want to vape in public? I think its obnoxious. If you cant light a cig up, why would it be ok to hit your ecig?

As I was saying. For you, it is obnoxious to enjoy vaping indoors, which is not close to smoking in terms of smell, lingering exhale, nor harm. And you're a fellow vaper. IMO, this does not bode well for the larger community going forward. IMO, no different than when ex-smokers get on their high horse and want smoking banned everywhere because they think it is obnoxious and shouldn't be tolerated anywhere in public.

If portion of vaping community is willing to roll over on the indoor usage aspect, it is just a matter of time (I'd say 3 years or less) that all the same places where tobacco smoking is disallowed, that vaping will be disallowed, which includes: own car (in certain areas), own residence (if sharing walls with other people) and outdoors.

I get your concern, and I have mine as well. I just think there are two sides to this, and may be it wouldn't be such a bad thing if we put some regulation on where people vape...

Thoughts?

What I see this thread being about is that legislation / proposals become a snowball gaining size and momentum. If you find something bothersome about vaping, I would strongly suggest that you keep it to yourself in public. If you truly believe it is harmful to you or others in the area, come ask about it on the forums and see what others think. Otherwise, if seeking regulation (read as restriction) because you find it bothersome, then be prepared for that sort of judgment to be applied to all the wonderful places, juices and gear you find okay to be vaping with, or in, and count on restrictions galore.

Me, I'm going to keep advocating for vape everywhere as I see it as most reasonable position given what our opposition is going for, plus given that secondhand vapor is around 100 times less harmful than secondhand smoke.

It's also challenging to not see all vapers who advocate for regulations on indoor vaping as opposition, but I'm okay if we continue to have those heated discussions on a forum such as this rather than at some town hall meeting where decisions are being put into action.

 

[AndriaD]

I have been on this forum for nearly five years.
I have seen every topic discussed, and all arguments presented.

And I have come to a conclusion.

Too many of you don't understand the issues that confront us.
Too many of you are ignorant to who opposes us.
Too many of you don't care yet.

But you will care.

You'll care when they come to your state, your city, or your county.

I am coming to the conclusion that we will all get what we deserve.
Because we ALWAYS get what we deserve.

Make sure you are ready to deserve something better.
And be ready to fight for it.

It you don't fight, you will not only be screwing me, you will be screwing yourself.

Listen to this if you really care enough to care...
https://soundcloud.com/vp-live/lawsuit-filed-lets-talk-to?in=vp-live/sets/the-click-bang-archives

Jaysus! I clicked the link and nearly fell out of my chair by the voice that just starts talking without any warning! It's not nice to startle middle aged ladies with PTSD!!!!! Then I had to scramble to close it before my husband was rousted from a sound sleep to find out what all the ruckus was about!

It's ten minutes till 3 in the morning... I'll listen to it tomorrow, now that I'm forewarned!

Andria

 

[Rictic]

Here in Miami, I haven't run into any problems vaping in public outdoor places. This could be in part due to the fact that there are quite a few shops spread around different parts of town, including several Vapor Shark B&Ms which a growing number of non-vapers are familiar with (non-vapers here tend to say "Oh you have one of those vapor sharks" when they see someone with any kind of ecig device). I am one of those people of the opinion that there's nothing to hide nor anything wrong with vaping publicly outdoors, as I used to do with smoking. However I don't believe very much in publicly vaping indoors, unless I'm somehow informed it's acceptable to do so. SOMETIMES I may stealth vape indoors, but definitely I try to avoid creating a situation that might bring negative attention.

I had to ask someone in one of the front rows of a movie theater once to please stop vaping inside. They weren't huge clouds or anything, but the vapor was blowing up and in front of the screen. If it was annoying to me, I can imagine someone who doesn't know or just doesn't vape was probably conjuring up some negative ideas about vaping and/or vapers. Another more recent case in the post office someone making the very long line at a busy hour pulled out his ecig and just started vaping. I definitely noticed some "ugh" faces. And while I don't care if those people like that guy (or me if it was me who was vaping) I do care if they spread negative ideas or take opposing stances on vaping rights based on vapers who don't consider how others might feel about it in an enclosed area.

If I were to politely ask someone to please stop singing at the top of their lungs in a bank line, and they respond by saying it's not illegal and how there are positive effects to singing out loud on many levels, I'll mostly likely hate them very much more.

Vaping bans and exorbitant taxes on vaping stuffs are BS all the way. Maybe I'm just dumb and don't know anything, but I don't see how proudly vaping in public indoor areas is beneficial to the cause. I'm not suggesting indoor vaping bans, I'm just saying try to avoid giving ignorant opposition a reason to generalize.

 

[six]

I have been on this forum for nearly five years.
I have seen every topic discussed, and all arguments presented.

And I have come to a conclusion.

I think you and I see a lot of things much the same way... and that certainly includes this issue. I think it's obvious who it is attacking vaping. I think their motives are obvious. I think their intentions are obvious.

So many people who are or will be affected continue to support the very people who attack vaping.

What I would really like: People to wake up and recognize the fact a certain political type is the problem and then they stop supporting them.

What I would accept: Those who prefer to continue their affiliation to spend some time and resources changing the behavior of those they choose to represent them. Make them actually represent.

Neither seems to be happening. Those who intend to stick their noses in to every aspect of my life and regulate or ban behavior I enjoy feel empowered by the fact that those who support them place no restrictions on that support.

It absolutely baffles me.

 

[Jman8]

Here in Miami, I haven't run into any problems vaping in public outdoor places.

You will if vaping indoors is deemed a huge issue.

Vaping bans and exorbitant taxes on vaping stuffs are BS all the way. Maybe I'm just dumb and don't know anything, but I don't see how proudly vaping in public indoor areas is beneficial to the cause.

The cause is bigger than what is bothersome to you. To not connect indoor bans with outdoor bans is between wishful thinking and plain old ignorance.

Is smoking anywhere (i.e. outdoors) considered very okay by all, while smoking indoors is deemed bad? I'd just note that regardless of where it is being done nowadays, smoking is considered rude everywhere, by vast majority. Hmmm, I wonder how we got to that sort of wide held belief?

What I don't get is how any vaper can actually see a problem with indoor vaping, AND then not be able to imagine how another person would have issue with outdoor vaping. You already know darn well it is relatively harmless indoors, so same would be true outdoors. Thus, just a matter of 'rudeness' which could easily apply to outdoors (or literally anywhere, including own residence in the middle of nowhere).

If vaping bans are BS, then indoor vaping bans are BS. The disconnect on this when willing to post your thoughts on a forum is not forgivable. I'm going to call your position out and have you think a little bit more than mere feelings.

Exorbitant taxes are going to happen because vaping will be deemed all around rude and sinful. Deserving of higher (sin) taxes. If you are a vaper who feels vaping in certain situations is rude/obnoxious, then thank YOU for being that which contributed to higher taxes on vaping.