What makes a good vape?

[new kid]

So, a few weeks ago I was in a discussion with someone about vape quality. The OP was making the argument that vape quality is effectively driven by Ohm's law but I don't agree. I think it is multiple factors and it is actually driven more by the vaper than the mechanics behind it. Some of you are probably familiar with that that thread....

When I went back to look at my posts I felt I did a poor job of explaining my thoughts. While it is not always true I come from the philosophy if someone does not understand it may be your not explaining well. I looked around and I could not find anything that talked in anything more that vague terms about vape quality. So I am taking a stab at it and want to see what you guys think.

Yes, it is probably a bit overkill but unless I break it down I don't feel I can explain it. As I worked on this I found some things I was missing. I think my theory holds though -- vape quality is influenced by several factors but in the end it is the vapors subjective taste that drives a "good vape".

Thoughts?

 

[super_X_drifter]

Here's my .02

If it keeps me from even THINKING about something that was the fabric of my existence for over 30 years, it is not only a good vape, it is an OUTSTANDING vape my friend.

Vape on my brothers and sisters. Vape what you like and don't let any scientists with scientific tools and coil standards try to convince you that your vape isn't awesome and your mod isn't really producing it

 

[bushmaster]

I'm probably not following through properly with the theme of your post but to me--throat hit is the main effect I'm looking for followed by flavor and vapor in that order. I don't care what it takes to get there as long as I get there. Needless to say, I'm a pg guy.

 

[Statistic]

I'd say there are obviously some definable limits, but not many. Vaping is by far the most subjective activity I've ever experienced but I'd bet nobody wants to inhale a cloud that's so hot it burns your soft tissue and lungs. There are hardware limitations and tolerances and there are individual human limitations and tolerances. I think the polar ends of the human spectrum are pretty much going to be near the polar ends of the hardware spectrum.

By and large I'd say there is very little standard of anything. Like X said, if it is more desireable than putting a stuffed paper stick in your face and lighting it on fire then it's a great vape.

 

[pmoraldo]

Its very simple a Reo and a RM2 makes a great vape

 

[Statistic]

^^ indisputable!

 

[JC Okie]

So, a few weeks ago I was in a discussion with someone about vape quality. The OP was making the argument that vape quality is effectively driven by Ohm's law but I don't agree. I think it is multiple factors and it is actually driven more by the vaper than the mechanics behind it. Some of you are probably familiar with that that thread....

When I went back to look at my posts I felt I did a poor job of explaining my thoughts. While it is not always true I come from the philosophy if someone does not understand it may be your not explaining well. I looked around and I could not find anything that talked in anything more that vague terms about vape quality. So I am taking a stab at it and want to see what you guys think.

Yes, it is probably a bit overkill but unless I break it down I don't feel I can explain it. As I worked on this I found some things I was missing. I think my theory holds though -- vape quality is influenced by several factors but in the end it is the vapors subjective taste that drives a "good vape".

Thoughts?

Looks good. On the "subjective" end....unlike bushmaster....throat hit is my LEAST important factor. I like vapor. Lots of vapor. Then flavor.....

And I like your new Gilligan avi, new kid.

 

[supertrunker]

Since i am ruled by idleness most of the time, for me it is the same setup every day with the same juice i like and a minimum of farting about and downtime. Nice diagrams.

Once a week i'll make new coils to replace any that died that week for HRH and myself and mix up a batch of juice for the coming week, all of which has become a rather comforting and pleasant way to spend an hour on a Sunday morning. The fact that it is so subjective is what makes it a fascinating journey for everyone, but i doubt anyone in here is in much doubt as to the best equipment to use to reach their goal of vape happiness.

T

 

[ChrisEU]

Ohm's law is overrated for vaping. It is just a means to an end. We want a big area of liquid heated to an "optimal" temperature as fast as possible, and then cool down fast. That's only one way to look at it.

The wattage is just a measurement of the energy going into the system, but it doesn't tell you what happened with the energy. Did it heat up a very short piece of 0.10mm wire resulting in burning juice? Or did it result in warming a big ole chunk of stainless steel tube and nothing much more?

If you want to really break it down, start with the heated area and the temperature.

We can vary much more than just volts, ohms and wattages. We have wire material, the geometric shape of the atomizer chamber, wire diameter, wicking material, juice make up, airflow, the spread of the temperature across the heated area and many more.

Basically, vaping as a hobby is trial and error with a couple of hints from physics. And if it works, stick to it =)

 

[CATastrophe]

We have wire material, the geometric shape of the atomizer chamber, wire diameter, wicking material, juice make up, airflow, the spread of the temperature across the heated area and many more.

These are some of the things I was thinking of when I saw the OP. Ohm's Law just doesn't cover enough of the variables that seem very important. Airflow is very important for me and that does hinge on atty chamber size/shape, coil position, and air hole size.

 

[darkzero]

Personally actual coil resistance don't matter to me. Well of course it does as it factors heat & energy usage. If I build a coil & I like it, then really the only important part of that coil's resistance is a guage to allow me to build the same coil the next time. I don't build with the intent to hit a specific resistance everytime. As you all know coil shape/size, wick, & air flow also matter too.

I can't vape with no TH & no heat. It just doesn't satisfy me, I'll find myself chain vaping & trying to take longer hits to get that. But it don't work that way. Sure I like lots of vapor too but if there's no heat, no TH, & muted flavor, I could careless if that particular setup produces more vapor than what satisfies me.

 

[FeistyAlice]

My first experience being able to notice and let others "test" for themselves, differences in atty type, albeit still very subjective for each human "tester," was using nearly identical Woodvils one with 510 fitting and other with 801 fitting (I have several Woodvil models/sizes, some with 510 and some with 801), with similar ohm 801 and 510 attys, but similar build REOS, similar size and age batteries, same juice. Pretty amazing differences between the two type attys, similar ohms. Then add in the variables of atty brands and sizes...... huge variation. One example of atty variance was the Ikenvape 801 Mini, Midi, and Standard. Then add in various other brands of 801s. Amazing differences in vape experience.

I can build five RM2s, very similar coils, and load them all on Grands with close age/use AW 18650s, same juice in all, and rate each RM2 best vape for me to worst. I can even switch the RM2s around on the Grands and most usually identify the same best to least liked RBA build. In my observstion the most recognizable difference between all is position of coil and amount of cotton wick.

Of course there are slight differences in each well functioning Grand and each uncoiled RM2 (measurable with accurate devices - I have no interest nor the time to do that) but I doubt the differences amount to much.

And that's the truth.

Back to the trenches.

Feisty Alice

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Treebeard]

My first experience being able to notice and let others "test" for themselves, differences in atty type, albeit still very subjective for each human "tester," was using nearly identical Woodvils one with 510 fitting and other with 801 fitting (I have several Woodvil models/sizes, some with 510 and some with 801), with similar ohm 801 and 510 attys, but similar build REOS, similar size and age batteries, same juice. Pretty amazing differences between the two type attys, similar ohms. Then add in the variables of atty brands and sizes...... huge variation. One example of atty variance was the Ikenvape 801 Mini, Midi, and Standard. Then add in various other brands of 801s. Amazing differences in vape experience.

I can build five RM2s, very similar coils, and load them all on Grands with close age/use AW 18650s, same juice in all, and rate each RM2 best vape for me to worst. I can even switch the RM2s around on the Grands and most usually identify the same best to least liked RBA build. In my observstion the most recognizable difference between all is position of coil and amount of cotton wick.

Of course there are slight differences in each well functioning Grand and each uncoiled RM2 (measurable with accurate devices - I have no interest nor the time to do that) but I doubt the differences amount to much.

And that's the truth.

Back to the trenches.

Feisty Alice

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk 2

Feisty Alice, where do you position your coils. Close to the base or middle or top toward the top of the posts?

 

[pdib]

Don't forget the electricity! What do you feed your batteries? Out here in Seattle, I sometimes get a bit of a salmon flavor off my vape. Couldn't put my finger on it at first, but then, last spawning season that taste got really strong!! Most times, tho, I get a real clean vape off the hydro-electrics.

 

[Treebeard]

Don't forget the electricity! What do you feed your batteries? Out here in Seattle, I sometimes get a bit of a salmon flavor off my vape. Couldn't put my finger on it at first, but then, last spawning season that taste got really strong!! Most times, tho, I get a real clean vape off the hydro-electrics.

Watchyu takin' bout', pdib...

 

[pdib]

Well, its a bit small minded to think that all electricity is the same, isn't it? Nobody seems to be comparing that.
















the salmon reference was in regard to our hydro-electric power out here

 

[Xobeloot]

Hydro electric power!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

 

[Treebeard]

Well, I have a green power plan from my local power company so most of my electricity comes from solar and wind. It mostly tastes like plain old electrons with a hint of smog de jour.

 

[new kid]

Ohm's law is overrated for vaping. It is just a means to an end. We want a big area of liquid heated to an "optimal" temperature as fast as possible, and then cool down fast. That's only one way to look at it.

The wattage is just a measurement of the energy going into the system, but it doesn't tell you what happened with the energy. Did it heat up a very short piece of 0.10mm wire resulting in burning juice? Or did it result in warming a big ole chunk of stainless steel tube and nothing much more?

If you want to really break it down, start with the heated area and the temperature.

We can vary much more than just volts, ohms and wattages. We have wire material, the geometric shape of the atomizer chamber, wire diameter, wicking material, juice make up, airflow, the spread of the temperature across the heated area and many more.

Basically, vaping as a hobby is trial and error with a couple of hints from physics. And if it works, stick to it =)

That was the very point I was trying to make in the other thread. That OP was saying that since the end voltage output of a sub-ohm coil was not as high as expected it was not a good vape.

Ohm's law is over rated since it is only one factor.

 

[new kid]

These are some of the things I was thinking of when I saw the OP. Ohm's Law just doesn't cover enough of the variables that seem very important. Airflow is very important for me and that does hinge on atty chamber size/shape, coil position, and air hole size.

I missed that factor. The JDS has an impact on the quality as well - air flow and wicking material are key factors, but overall design play another factor.