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What might be in our vapour? Have a guess ...

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by Kate, Oct 21, 2008.

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  1. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    One of our eliquid suppliers had toxicology tests carried out on the eliquid he sells and the lab found methanol instead of ethanol in the liquid. The recommendation was that it not be used and that batch was withdrawn.

    My concern is that if ethanol can so easily be replaced with methanol by one manufacturer what is to stop others from doing it? Are toxic ingredients being substituted for safer substances?

    I suppose we don't really have any way of knowing for sure about safety without either voluntary testing and disclosure by manufacturers and sellers or industry regulation and standards being enforced.

    Anyone interested in the effects of methanol poisoning might be interested in this - ***********************************************************

    It can be absorbed easily via inhalation. There is a cumulative effect in the human body and it can cause blindness, liver failure, etc. Signs of exposure include nausea, blurred vision, dizziness and headaches.

    I have no idea how much we could be inhaling if it was present in our vapour, I can't compare exposure limits with the amount we might inhale in a day. Does anyone who is good at chemistry want to have an educated guess on whether it's something we need to be wary of?

    Another ingredient I worry about is glycerine, some eliquid recipes include this but there is a cheaper, toxic substance that can be substituted.
     
  2. SMILIN

    SMILIN Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Sep 21, 2008
    CHITOWN USA
    That suck Kate, hope we are not smoking it, like in ciggies:mad:Hopefully there will be more actual transparacy in the near future. It seems someone will start to manufacture liquid properly;)
     
  3. Jack-Flash

    Jack-Flash Full Member

    Oct 16, 2008
    Sheffield, England
    That is very worrying. It is one of my main concerns about e-smoking. I will be so much happier when countries that have more regulation start making these things.
     
  4. dazzer1975

    dazzer1975 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2008
    Rochdale...sadly.
    what type of bottles where these?

    the little plastic ones with orange cone lids?

    I have a few of these bottles 3 unopened, after reading that link I am wondering if I should throw them away?

    This is something which needs recalling at the very least, from the same consignment which the poisoned bottles were found (going off trust that the retailer will honestly say whether any had been sold or not), this is a very clear and present serious danger to the public health.

    I choose to use a product with the understanding it is legal to use, surely methanol in the liquid isn't legal considering the health ramifications and the advice to pull it from sale?
     
  5. Somoney

    Somoney Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 9, 2008
    USA
    All the more reason for suppliers to print ingredient %'s on the label.
    I'm going to tough it out with JC since I'm in the US and can drive over there and kick their asses if they try to poison me.
     
  6. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    As far as I know the only known methanol affected batch was menthol flavour and was not sold.

    I'm sorry, it's not my intention to worry anybody, just to keep us alert to possible problems that might need to be solved.

    It's still probably much safer than smoking so we can take comfort from that anyway. It would be even safer if we could be sure the ingredients used were regulated but we'll have to wait a while for that to happen.

    The glycerine substitute I was thinking of before is diethylene glycol - Diethylene glycol - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Apparently it's caused a number of poisonings by being used as a cheap substitute for glycerine.
     
  7. Jack-Flash

    Jack-Flash Full Member

    Oct 16, 2008
    Sheffield, England
    Forewarned is forearmed kate. I am sure we all prefer to make informed decisions about what we take and your posts help us do that. Keep up the good work. :)
     
  8. dazzer1975

    dazzer1975 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 11, 2008
    Rochdale...sadly.
    Ahhh I have heard this link before, i.e. methanol and menthol. Is it or would it be fair to say that methanol will only ever find its way into menthol flavoured liquid?

    no apologies necessary, I am easily worried lol its just I am trying to move away from tobacco because my lungs are totally destroyed and a history of early death through heart failure for all smokers in my family but I would like to stay alive long enough to stop using the e cigs too... eventually and this is the single best tobacco/nicotine alternative i have found and ive tried the lot.


    I am going to look into making my own ejuice with glycerin (although who knows without testing myself it is what it says on the tin) and some flavours, dunno where ill get the nic hit from though?

    As an aside, it is absolutely infuriating how Chinese manufacturing ethos is so iresponsible and laid back. I mean this is one of, if not the fastest growing economiues on the planet, it isn't that they won't be making enough profits... especially when you factor in the exchange rates and the prices they charge for stuff. Nicotine patches dont cost as much as e cigs lets remember and these are manufactured and regulated to extremely high standards.

    /rant over :evil::p

    p.s. top marks to the retailer for getting the tests done and ensuring the safety of their customers.
     
  9. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    Forewarned is forearmed indeed Jack and keeping ourselves informed is the best thing we can do at the moment.

    "Is it or would it be fair to say that methanol will only ever find its way into menthol flavoured liquid?" ... I don't know Dazzer, I think it can be used as a cheap substitute for ethanol so it depends on whether that's in the recipe for each particular juice I suppose.

    Any seller who voluntarily has tests carried out and discloses the results gets loads of extra brownie points in my book.
     
  10. jigtg

    jigtg Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 4, 2008
    Sparta, Greece
    wiki/Methanol mentions two ways of methanol turning to carbon dioxide and water. Should be piece of cake to to see if pure methanol is still methanol after it goes through e-cig.
     
  11. SMILIN

    SMILIN Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Sep 21, 2008
    CHITOWN USA
     
  12. Kate

    Kate Moved On

    Jun 26, 2008
    UK
    It was a menthol batch that a UK seller discovered through lab tests. The manufacturer was contacted and the problem was corrected for that particular brand.

    That's about all I know, that is probably a reliable brand now because the manufacturer knows it will be double checked by the seller.
     
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