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What do you mean, safe chemistry batteries?
I've looked at the XS-haler I don't like the looks or the button, and the chameleon isn't my style either.
The icon and v3 can use protected batts
The thing about using protected batteries was primarily a concern when stacking them...
but the concern is with Li-Ion batteries which produce their own oxydizer from the cobalt in them when they vent....so they vent with flames....
Safe chemistry batteries don't use cobalt...they're Iron polymer or manganese so they don't produce their own oxydizer so they don't vent with flame, and are more stable and can withstand higher temperatures before going into battery failure (thermal runaway) because of that they don't need the PCB protection...
further ones like the IMR (LiMN chemistry batteries) are able to be discharged at a higher drain rate which makes for a better vaping experience... an atty or carto at a given voltage has an amp draw... the battery itself has a max drain rate expressed in amps as well...in the vast majority of cases the amp draw is higher than the max drain rate of the battery (which causes the voltage to "sag" (ie 3.7V doesnt hit as a true 3.7V).... the LiMN batteries solve this problem by having a drain rate higer than the amp draw (so 3.7V WILL hit at a true 3.7V)..
I was kinda answering these posts:
the LiFePo4 above indicates these are non protected... which contradicts the bold underlined statement below
the red bit about the icon 14500 battery is talking about a LiMN high drain... which is not protected in the traditional sense of "protected"
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Wow that's some Einstein stuff right there Drozd.
So using a LiMN battery is best for PV's?
and if using an unprotected make sure it is NOT Lithium-Ion ?
The V3 comes with a Lith-Ion battery, hmmm.
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yeah the LiMN are better performance wise...
let me put it this way... a LR 510 atty at 3.7V has an amp draw of 2.47A..(a joye 510 atty has an amp draw of 1.61A...
with 14500 batteries
a ultrafire protected 900mAh battery has a max drain of 1.3A
an AW protected 750mAh battery has a max drain of 1.5A
an AW IMR high drain 600mAh battery has a max drain rate of 4A
so with the two ICR batteries (Li-Ion) they're overstressed and cant provide the amp draw so the voltage drops from 3.7V til it equals what the battery at max can deliver
the IMR (LiMN high drain) has more than enough for it to deliver that amp draw so it hits at a true 3.7V
the LiMN is superior performance...
after that it comes down to make of protected Li-Ion....
and last choice would be unprotected Li-Ion (with the exception being if the device has protection built in itself)
but all batteries have several layers of protection only one of which is the PCB and that PCB is what most people traditionally refer to as "protected"
I am so lost.
But why would I want a 600mah battery when I can get a 900mah?
I want it to last me all day + some, I'm so confused on all of this "battery talk" I don't know what PCB stands for if I had to guess I would say (protected cobalt battery) ??? and "A" as well as LiMN what is that?
I'm sorry man but I am still new to all this, never cared about batteries until now lol. Never had an interest in batteries but now I guess I need to have an interest in them.
If you could give me a link, or if you want to break it down for me.
I'm having trouble understanding all the abbreviations being used.
Thanks for all the help!
Jon
first the easy ones:
PCB ....protection circuit board .....if you look at a protected battery you'll see the shrink wrap at the negative end kinda notch in and then back out....that's the shrink wrap showing the seperation between PCB and the actual cell.. that protects against overcurrent, over discharge, and short circuit....
(however in some circumstances it'll trip due to over discharge without there really being a problem...
ICR = Li-Ion ...Internal cobalt resistance
IMR = LiMN.... Lithium manganese or spinel cell... Internal manganese resistance....which is a lower internal resistance there fore a high drain battery...
now all cells have a PTC...which is a pressure and thermal control...if you look at the battery it's the wire that runs up the one side of the cell and the vents on the positive button...
if a cell were to get too hot or build up too much pressure that would physically break and kill the circuit and any gas that may have built up pressure would vent through those holes..
As for why you'd choose a 600mAh battery over a 900mAh one...well lets examine that... Ultrafire is not known for them having high QC or being truthful about the mAh rating on their batteries...so it's likely not really 900mAh to begin with (it's been well documented that their 600mAh 10440 batteries are really only about 350mAh, and their 3000mAh 18650 is really only 2400 mAh)..
so who knows what that 900mAh really is...
secondly... when you use a given atty or carto at a given voltage you have amp draw (it's the voltage divided by the resistance of the atty or carto) so let's say I'm being conservative and using just a regular joye 510 atty... that's an amp draw of 1.61A at 3.7V...
now batteries have a max drain rate...(which is the mAh rating times the C rating and then divided by 1000) so that Ultrafire battery if the mAh rating were actually true at 900mAh would have a max drain rate of 1.3A...so lower than the 1.61A draw...
because the max drain rate of the battery cant meet the amp draw the only thing that can happen is that the voltage will "sag" and thereby lowering the amp draw until it can be met by the max drain rate of the battery.... so you're not getting full voltage....
couple that with the fact that when running the battery at ful max discharge will damage the battery....gradually killing the capacity and ability to hold a charge as well as the over all # of times it can be recharged....
now the IMR though 600mAh has a max drain rate of 4A...well above the amp draw of 1.61A ....so it doesnt experience those other proplems...it will really deliver 3.7V....you won't be damaging and degrading it's capacity and cycle life each time you use it... yes you may have to charge slightly more often (which will be almost un noticible) but it'll last longer and perform better in the long term.. if I want sagging voltage and sacrificed performance...well might as well just stick with stock batteries and eGos and completely forget mods
5*'s on this man, lots of great info.
Thanks for all that this really helped me and it's very descriptive.
Jon
Thanks for all that this really helped me and it's very descriptive.
Jon
So Drozd,
if I were to purchase an Icon, which batts should I prefer with a regular 510 atty?
Protected or unprotected?
Should I be concerned that the ones PS stocks are unrotected? I may leave it in the charger awhile by mistake with any batt I order.
Should I order theirs or go out on my own/ I hat to spend $50 for a Pila charger though.
still confused...sorry
if I were to purchase an Icon, which batts should I prefer with a regular 510 atty?
Protected or unprotected?
Should I be concerned that the ones PS stocks are unrotected? I may leave it in the charger awhile by mistake with any batt I order.
Should I order theirs or go out on my own/ I hat to spend $50 for a Pila charger though.
still confused...sorry
if it were me?...and that's what I was getting...
I'd order the base kit...get an atty from them or somewhere else...
get the AW IMR 14500 high drain batteries: AW IMR 14500 LiMN Rechargeable Lithium Battery
and while the Pila charger is super nice... the Ultrafire wf-139 works just fine: Ultrafire WF-139 Charger for 14500 / 17500 / 18500 / 18650 / RCR123 3.7 volt Lithium Battery Charger
I linked from there just for the links...you can shop around a bunch of the vendors here for better prices on the charger and batteries (but I'd use those batteries specifically)
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