What the Heck is in French ECigs?!?!

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Bill Godshall

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Seems like the magazine anticipated criticism about its report and test methods before it even ran their article (which I still cannot find, and the website says it won't be available online until September 15).
Cigarette électronique : les 7 questions que vous vous posez / Articles / Actualités - Le site du magazine 60 millions de Consommateurs


"What exact amounts of undesirable compounds did you find? "

Here, for example, the amount of five compounds measured for 15 puffs electronic cigarette:
formaldehyde: 0.2 to 11.3 micrograms, depending on the brand
acetaldehyde: 0.1 to 13.5 micrograms, depending on the brand
acrolein: 0.1 to 4.4 micrograms, depending on the brand
nickel: 0.2 to 12 nanograms, depending on the brand
chrome: 1 to 6.7 nanograms, depending on the brand

The results are very variable depending on the e-cigarette and / or the liquid used. This is why we felt certain acceptable devices, other inadequate.

As with any comparative test, we sent each manufacturer the report crude analyzes. This indicates the method used and the results obtained. However, the letters sent to certain manufacturers were returned unclaimed.

"Can you say more about the facility used for testing? "

We did not use the smoking machine, traditionally used to test cigarettes. To avoid deposition by condensation on the walls, which would be to underestimate the assays performed on fumes, we designed a specific device with the shortest possible tubing. All steam produced was recovered and analyzed.

"Your test conditions are they not exaggerated to get more undesirable compounds? "

Our facility simulated aspirations 3 seconds every 30 seconds or conditions vapotage reasonable. Users who want longer hot expose themselves to more undesirable ingredients.

"Where can I see all of your results? "

The summary of our results is published in an article freely available on our website. The full, especially with the results, brand by brand, appears in the magazine's September sale (€ 4.60) on newsstands or in digital form on our website.

60 Million is a newspaper without advertising, including sales, and they alone are able to finance this kind of analysis.
 
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Bill Godshall

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A new “study” on chemical analysis of e-cigarette: nothing new but huge negative publicity and intimidation
By Dr Farsalinos
A new


The same chemicals were tested in 12 brands of e-cigarettes in a study by Goniewicz and coworkers that was published earlier this year. So, nothing new was tested in the French study. More importantly, the results of the French study are almost identical to those of Goniewicz. Below is the table of the results of both analyses.







For nickel, the French study found 0.2-12 nanograms per 15 puffs. Goniewicz had found even more than that, however he also found that a pharmaceutical nicotine inhaler had 190 nanograms of nickel per cartridge! For chrome, the French study found 1.0-6.7 nanograms. However, they fail to report if that was hexavalent chromium (chromium VI), which is the only chromium form to have carcinogenic properties. Still, the tobacco cigarette may have up to 500 nanograms.

It is obvious that the amount of chemicals found in e-cigarette vapor is lower compared to tobacco by orders of magnitude (even if we accept that the methodology was perfect and the results are absolutely credible).
 
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S1LV3R

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It appears that the editor of 60 Million Consumers is far more interested in selling fear and magazines than in conducting objective research or in truthfully communicating the evidence to the public.

Like i said. Hes probably part of the "good ole boys" club. Some bureaucrat needed some bad info to help push the agenda and hit up his buddy who happily provided it.
 

S1LV3R

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MarKa

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It seems like the regrettable consensus here is that overheating PG leads to levels of formaldehyde. You guys seem to be saying this is from extreme temperatures that vapers don't usually use. What about subohm vaping? Those coils get pretty hot, especially when you descend into .4-.3ohms on a fully charged IMR battery of 4.2v.

Would those be considered "extreme temperatures" enough to heat the PG and give off formaldehyde as a byproduct?
 

Orb Skewer

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It seems like the regrettable consensus here is that overheating PG leads to levels of formaldehyde. You guys seem to be saying this is from extreme temperatures that vapers don't usually use. What about subohm vaping? Those coils get pretty hot, especially when you descend into .4-.3ohms on a fully charged IMR battery of 4.2v.

Would those be considered "extreme temperatures" enough to heat the PG and give off formaldehyde as a byproduct?

Anyone who has ever experienced a 'dry-hit' will have tasted (although momentarily-you learn rapidly not to ingest) Acrolein, and possibly formaldehyde, its one of the reasons I recommend clearos to 'noobs' in my proximity, far less likely to encounter a dry hit from a coil surrounded by liquid.

'Sub-Ohmers' wouldn't be getting clouds if the coil was dry-, and no one goes past the point of tasting Acrolein 2 or 3 times in their early vaping days before 'learning' what can cause it-and how to avoid it (as soon as it enters the mouth you know).

Smoking frying pan is what it tastes and smells like-pretty un mistakeable. Yark!! :p
 

WarHawk-AVG

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Anyone who has ever experienced a 'dry-hit' will have tasted (although momentarily-you learn rapidly not to ingest) Acrolein, and possibly formaldehyde, its one of the reasons I recommend clearos to 'noobs' in my proximity, far less likely to encounter a dry hit from a coil surrounded by liquid.

'Sub-Ohmers' wouldn't be getting clouds if the coil was dry-, and no one goes past the point of tasting Acrolein 2 or 3 times in their early vaping days before 'learning' what can cause it-and how to avoid it (as soon as it enters the mouth you know).

Smoking frying pan is what it tastes and smells like-pretty un mistakeable. Yark!! :p
Where does Acrolein and formaldehyde come from?? Ever smell smelting metal (particularly nickel [as in a galvanizing plant])...could it be tasting "heated steel" be the taste you are tasting and not Acrolein and formaldehyde?
 

Orb Skewer

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Where does Acrolein and formaldehyde come from?? Ever smell smelting metal (particularly nickel [as in a galvanizing plant])...could it be tasting "heated steel" be the taste you are tasting and not Acrolein and formaldehyde?

Formaldehyde
http://www.americanchemistry.com/Pr...-about-the-Health-Effects-of-Formaldehyde.PDF

Acrolein
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...erine-vapor-acrolein-issues.html#post10381885

Both these substances are benign at the levels vapers would be exposed to-
they are 'un pleasant' but not a danger or detrimental to health.
 
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dr g

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It seems like the regrettable consensus here is that overheating PG leads to levels of formaldehyde. You guys seem to be saying this is from extreme temperatures that vapers don't usually use. What about subohm vaping? Those coils get pretty hot, especially when you descend into .4-.3ohms on a fully charged IMR battery of 4.2v.

Would those be considered "extreme temperatures" enough to heat the PG and give off formaldehyde as a byproduct?

That is a misconception about subohm, subohm coils run at the same operating temperatures as any other coils. They are large so they take more current to heat up, and sometimes they are quite powerful, so the user takes short drags. But a small, thin-wire coil can get much hotter with much less power than a subohm coil can; subohm doesn't mean high temperature, it means large coil and lots of liquid vaporized.
 

gayhalo

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And it will come as no surprise that the French study was funded by a guy called Bercy who is the guy who manages the French tobacco tax. It was not direct but he funds the group who paid for it. I think he is protecting his job at the expense of our lives..... Shame on him.


Edit: I was a bit off mark. It was the publication that published it who's owner is funded by Bercy. Sorry.
 
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And it will come as no surprise that the French study was funded by a guy called Bercy who is the guy who manages the French tobacco tax. It was not direct but he funds the group who paid for it. I think he is protecting his job at the expense of our lives..... Shame on him.

If anyone runs across a pro-vaping organization press release refuting this French "study," please share it on this thread so we can send it to family, friends & associates, and distribute it through our blogs, Facebook pages, etc.

If there isn't already a release out there yet, perhaps it's a good idea for a few of the more scientifically-gifted members of this community to get together and write one (?). Disinformation can only be extinguished with facts, and if people are only seeing this Bercy fellow's "findings," I suspect he and his sponsors will succeed in spreading a dark cloud over the vaping industry/community that may take a long time to disburse (and may even set the stage for some knee-jerk anti-vaping legislators to push new restrictions/bans).

We all know who's behind the multimillion dollar campaign to destroy the vaping industry. We need to oppose them at every turn before they get the upper hand.

Just a thought.



 

kristin

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If anyone runs across a pro-vaping organization press release refuting this French "study," please share it on this thread so we can send it to family, friends & associates, and distribute it through our blogs, Facebook pages, etc.

CASAA published this commentary on Wednesday for exactly that purpose - feel free to share from this link:
CASAA: French e-cigarette study, media misrepresent facts

*******************************************
French e-cigarette study, media misrepresent facts

An article published Monday in The Daily Mail announced "E-cigarettes are as harmful as cigarettes and could cause cancer, claims study." The article stated that a French consumer magazine, 60 Millions Consommateurs (60 Million Consumers), had branded the devices as 'far from the harmless gadgets they're sold as by manufacturers'. Soon, news outlets from all over the world were reporting that "E-cigarettes may be carcinogenic" and "E-cigarettes as harmful as cigarettes."

According to the 60 Millions Consommateurs, which is published by the National Consumers' Institute (a government-funded organization somewhat similar to Consumer Reports in the U.S.), their researchers tested 10 e-cigarettes. This "report" comes after the French government announced in May this year its intent to ban electronic cigarette use in public places, which has outraged French e-cigarette consumers and sellers.

After the news broke, Clive Bates, former head of ASH-UK and a tobacco harm reduction advocate, announced on his blog that he had issued a complaint about the Daily Mail article to the Press Complaints Commission .

"There are many flaws in the Mail article, mostly shoddy health journalism and lack of balance or proportion, and life is too short to go into them all," Bates wrote in a post titled "Lazy, stupid, wrong – the Mail can’t stop itself."

The web version of the article has since been re-titled "E-cigarettes contain chemicals that make some 'as harmful as normal tobacco'."

On Tuesday, the magazine posted another article with a few more details about its test results, which allowed experts to partially evaluate the findings.

MSN.com reported an interview with Drexel University Professor Igor Burstyn, who told them he is skeptical of the study. The article was titled "Rumor: E-cigarettes are as harmful as the real things," and it concluded that the rumor was "unconfirmed" and that "the bulk of research says they're much safer."

According to the MSN article:
Dr. Burstyn recently published the largest, most comprehensive assessment of research on E-cigarette safety released thus far. (Peering through the mist: What does the chemistry of contaminants in electronic cigarettes tell us about health risks?) That meant looking at dozens of studies done all over the world involving more than 9,000 subjects. His conclusion: “Current data do not indicate that exposures to vapors from contaminants in electronic cigarettes warrant a concern.” A conclusion supported by other health researchers in Palgrave Macmillan, a journal of public health policy.​

After reviewing all available information, the Scientific Director for The Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives, Dr. Carl V Phillips, surmised that "it is almost certain that they used faulty methods, overheating in particular, because that is what produces high levels of acrolein. In previous studies, high levels of formaldehyde have been identified as lab errors, not output from the e-cigarettes. As for the metals, Burstyn has already explained that without knowing what molecular form they were in, the information is useless."

"This is why real scientific publications include a methods section," he continued. "We basically have no idea what they did, though it is pretty clear their methods were faulty to the point of this being almost completely junk. The 'almost' refers to the fact that perhaps high levels of acetaldehyde are created by certain flavorings. But, again, since we have no idea what they tested or how, we can make no sense of what was reported."

Dr. Phillips concluded, "this is more of a marketing con than a scientific study."

"The same chemicals were tested in 12 brands of e-cigarettes in a study by Goniewicz and coworkers that was published earlier this year," added Dr. Konstantinos Farsalinos, a researcher at Onassis Cardiac Surgery Center in Athens-Greece, in a commentary on Ecigarette-Research.com. "So, nothing new was tested in the French study. More importantly, the results of the French study are almost identical to those of Goniewicz."

"I cannot explain why worldwide media refer to this study as if it is the most important discovery about e-cigarettes," he wrote.

In the MSN article, Burstyn said his professional research has even informed his personal life, as he told them that he's worked hard to convince his wife to quit traditional cigarettes in favor of the newer e-versions. "Smoking a regular cigarette is like running on the highway in flip-flops," he said. "E-cigs is taking a taxi."
 
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