what vaping model should i get for my son?

[Moonlighter]

Each time these things (questions) come up about ethics and children I wonder about why it is allowed to sell the vaporizers and nicotine online and through the mail without any verification of ID/age.

I have purchased cigarettes in the past through the mail and had to provide a photo copy of my ID. Yet, there are none required from any of the suppliers or manufactures I have seen for vaporizers/nicotine.The Pay Pal argument just does not fly with me. There are always ways around that so called check. Here is an example of an online cigarette seller, they want a drivers license and the last 4 digits of a social security number: https://www.smokes-spirits.com/edit.../create/redirecturl/Checkout_AddressInfo.aspx

I do remember a while back that kids were ordering cases of wine online and regulations (ID checks) had to be put in place to stop it.

If I were a seller I would be concerned as to the legal and ethical aspects of selling a product (of adult nature) online or through the mail, to someone I cannot personally see or check the ID of. I would at least try to make a good faith effort to obtain a photo copy of an ID. Frankly, I would be very concerned that I quite possibly could have some kind of legal problems in the future, if I were not even making some kind of effort to verify the age of my customer.

Parents have the ablity and tools available to them to control what and where their kids can go on line.
I watched over what my kids did on line years ago before there were all these new safeguards.
If you have kids then take internet away from them if they order booze or smokes on line.
Take away their credit you gave them and lock up the mouthwash cause that has alcohol in it too.
(yes people drink that because it has alcohol in it)
I would in no way consider sending my photo ID or SS number on line.
Protect kids by being there with them.
Protect kids by not having free range internet at their finger tips so they don't see start to finish be-headings, people being blown up, drug users shooting up, animals being slaughtered, and every kind of sex to every kind of object. There is way to much adult content on the internet that is of adult only subject matter and it is up to PARENTS to control what their kids do. Where are all the parents??????
Legally parents are suppose to be accountable for their kids. If your kid lies it's your kids and your problem. If I left my keys in my ignition of the car by accident and the neighbor kid decides it would be fun to drive my car it's the kid and the kids parents that have the problem and I have the headaches of what that kid did to my car. I didn't invite that kid into my car. The parents are suppose to train their kid right from wrong.
When I was a kid I would have knocked on my neighbors door and said, hey neighbor your keys are in your car or I would have told my mom and she would tell the neighbor.
Kids find ways to do what kids do. They steal their parents prescription
medications. They sneak into the liquor. They have unprotected sex, they drive around with their friends and tag the entire neighborhood with 3 dollars worth of spray paint causing 80,0000 dollars worth of damage.
And those 3 cans of spray paint are under legal lock and key now.
All the time and money to lock up the paint in all the stores has done zip nodda to reduce tagging.

 

[AGNES PEACOCK]

Parents have the ablity and tools available to them to control what and where their kids can go on line.
I watched over what my kids did on line years ago before there were all these new safeguards.
If you have kids then take internet away from them if they order booze or smokes on line.
Take away their credit you gave them and lock up the mouthwash cause that has alcohol in it too.
(yes people drink that because it has alcohol in it)
I would in no way consider sending my photo ID or SS number on line.
Protect kids by being there with them.
Protect kids by not having free range internet at their finger tips so they don't see start to finish be-headings, people being blown up, drug users shooting up, animals being slaughtered, and every kind of sex to every kind of object. There is way to much adult content on the internet that is of adult only subject matter and it is up to PARENTS to control what their kids do. Where are all the parents??????
Legally parents are suppose to be accountable for their kids. If your kid lies it's your kids and your problem. If I left my keys in my ignition of the car by accident and the neighbor kid decides it would be fun to drive my car it's the kid and the kids parents that have the problem and I have the headaches of what that kid did to my car. I didn't invite that kid into my car. The parents are suppose to train their kid right from wrong.
When I was a kid I would have knocked on my neighbors door and said, hey neighbor your keys are in your car or I would have told my mom and she would tell the neighbor.
Kids find ways to do what kids do. They steal their parents prescription
medications. They sneak into the liquor. They have unprotected sex, they drive around with their friends and tag the entire neighborhood with 3 dollars worth of spray paint causing 80,0000 dollars worth of damage.
And those 3 cans of spray paint are under legal lock and key now.
All the time and money to lock up the paint in all the stores has done zip nodda to reduce tagging.

I too would love to live in a perfect world. It would be great if at least one parent could always be home to watch the kids. Unfortunately, I know many households where the teens are left alone while the parents work.

You know kids also learn from example, You have never smoked in front of your kids while on that pedestal have you?

 

[Moonlighter]

I too would love to live in a perfect world. It would be great if at least one parent could always be home to watch the kids. Unfortunately, I know many households where the teens are left alone while the parents work.

You know kids also learn from example, You have never smoked in front of your kids while on that pedestal have you?

So you think it's better to make a law that teens will break and have criminal records for verses just allowing a parent to deal with the teen troubles that arise? I don't think that's being on a high horse at all.
No matter if it's a single parent household or double, some kids do things they shouldn't. The same law you think will be so great will end up causing a huge burden on the single parent who doesn't have time to go to court with their kid. When laws are made all things should come into play about how it will reduce a problem.
Let's say "they" pass a law and then when a kid breaks it has a criminal record. That same kid tries to get a job and when the company that's hiring runs a check on that kid his or her record comes up as a certain type of violaton. They don't see exactly what the kid did, only what violations he/she has. I think it would create more problems than solutions. (what if the kid uses his/her parents social security number? They would also be charged with stealing and using someone else's ID)
Two big issues with your idea as I see it are the high possiblity that your I.D. could be stolen from many of these sites. The adult criminals that hack information are very good at what they do. If you know anyone who has had their I.D. stolen and used in a criminal way you'd understand how many people would not use online purchasing if they were told they had to give personal info. That also would cause a loss in sales so it hurts the little guy trying to have an internet business. The legal fees some people end up paying to correct the "crooks" bad credit that is in their name is a nightmare.


An idea from re reading your post. Have the credit card companies put a letter or extra number on the credit card that stands for the age of the kid. Then when they try to use their card it won't accept it. Drinking age is 21 where I live and many are out on their own by then.(18)

 

[Erised]

Some people just shouldn't breed.

I am thinking that what the government should regulate is birth control for idiots. In the meantime ...

All you adults here vaping all these "yummy" flavors -- well, you just need to knock it off! WTH is your problem anyway -- Tutti-fruti and Cheesecake for gawd sakes! WHAT are you thinking??? I don't believe I have ever in my life been associated with a group of people that had such a blatant disregard for propriety. Get it through your heads people -- you're old! Flavors like those don't exist for you anymore, and trying to get around it by inhaling them is just wrong, on so many levels.

You know, they made cigarettes taste like week-old-unwashed-gym-socks for a reason -- so that our precious youth would never be tempted to follow in our wicked ways ... and I am sure that Phillip Morris will back me here on how well that philosophy has worked to keep our children safe and smoke-free. People, put aside your selfish wants for flavor for just a moment -- please, for just a moment consider those poor children born of idiots -- and FOR THEM, vape a responsible, acceptable flavor.

Erised

 

[tromboneking]

I could be a bit thick headed but I just can't understand why a parent would buy smokes for their kids. I guess it would be better than trying to make your own smokes.

The question is...does your kid smoke? If not, why the hell would you want to get them started with something like this, even if it is 0 nic? I mean, does your son have nothing better to do than vape? Play some baseball or football...read for fun...etc... Hell, as much as I condone playing video games all day, have him play that for pete's sake! It's better than vaping! I know that you said "no i'm not getting my kid a vaping device" but why would you even consider?

Basically, motorcity, if someone isn't hooked on the nic to begin with why open that possibility? Add in the fact that it can be a bit expensive, will you be willing to buy him all the accessories he needs? What happens if he "loses" his PV? Will you buy him another one to take it's place only to find that it is now in the hands of one of his friends or that he sold it and wasn't truthful about it?

Just my feelings on it.

 

[tromboneking]

disregard...i thought the previous post did not go thru

 

[dedmonwakin]

Some people just shouldn't breed.

I am thinking that what the government should regulate is birth control for idiots. In the meantime ...

All you adults here vaping all these "yummy" flavors -- well, you just need to knock it off! WTH is your problem anyway -- Tutti-fruti and Cheesecake for gawd sakes! WHAT are you thinking??? I don't believe I have ever in my life been associated with a group of people that had such a blatant disregard for propriety. Get it through your heads people -- you're old! Flavors like those don't exist for you anymore, and trying to get around it by inhaling them is just wrong, on so many levels.

You know, they made cigarettes taste like week-old-unwashed-gym-socks for a reason -- so that our precious youth would never be tempted to follow in our wicked ways ... and I am sure that Phillip Morris will back me here on how well that philosophy has worked to keep our children safe and smoke-free. People, put aside your selfish wants for flavor for just a moment -- please, for just a moment consider those poor children born of idiots -- and FOR THEM, vape a responsible, acceptable flavor.

Erised

Looks like your theory has worked well in our current history of cigarette smokers.....tell me. What drew you to smoking....if you were indeed a smoker?

Also to note. Cigars and pipe tobacco had variable flavors long before e-cigs ever did.

But, to be honest...they say it's not the flavor of the item, it's the package. Look around. Your beloved phillip morris(note, no capitalization) is doing a pretty good job of keeping children uninterested. Best form of persuasion is to tell a kid not to do it and he has advertisements posted everywhere in a humorous fashion....as if to say, don't do it....just kidding!

 

[Ryle]

Since most of you would consider me still a kid since I'm not legally old enough to drink yet I think I can safely speak from a kid's perspective without too much bashing in return.

Laws against smoking/vaping - irrelevant, even if a parent won't buy them for you you can still get them. At 13, half my friends were 19 or 20 and they would happily buy me smokes when I'd give them $50 and tell them to get me a carton ($30ish) and keep the change. Parents only started buying them for me when they realized they couldn't stop me. And for those of you that might think "why couldn't they stop you" the short answer.. because when I was 13 they simply were neither big nor mean enough to put me down. Grounding doesn't work when the parents are never home and you can't spank a kid that you've taught since birth how to fight.

"proper parenting" to prevent kids from wanting to smoke - That doesn't really work either. Some of us just like to go our own way and the more a parent speaks out against something, the more we want to do it. With my parents I was told drinking was fine if I did it at home, if i wanted to smoke pot to ask them and they'd let me try it, the only thing that was forbidden was cigarettes. Well pot and booze never intrigued me, but I sure as hell could suck down some cigarettes. My younger sister was never told she couldn't do anything, and guess what... she doesn't... Most of my friends were forbidden to do anything, and they turned out druggies, drunks, and smokers.....food for thought for all the anti-smoking mommies and daddies out there.


As for the supplier comments - Unless a parent is stupid enough to give their kid a credit card the kid can't very well go buy their own since you have to be 18 to get a credit card. True you might find a select handful of kids smart enough to figure out how to get a prepaid credit card but that'll be a pretty slim percentage. You also have to factor in that a kid would much rather spend $5 on a pack of real smokes than $50+ on an e-cig they have to wait days to get in the mail. Most kids require instant gratification from spending money, the patience to wait for online shopping is something we learn as we get older.

Beyond that.. if you found out your 14 year old kid was smoking and you tried everything you could think of to make them quit and still fail.. wouldn't you rather buy them a PV than have them smoking the real thing? Hell if you keep them off the sites and prevent them from being educated on the subject you could even step down the nicotine until your kid's smoking 0nic without them even knowing the difference. If they're going to do it anyway you may as well educate them on it properly. Banning things isn't the answer.. proper education (not scare tactics) is a much better solution.

Sex is a good example of this. My parents didn't bother with the STD talks, they didn't bother telling me I couldn't do it. But what they did do is help me get babysitting gigs before I even thought about having sex. Then they told me, go ahead have sex if you want to.. but if you get pregnant.. you're raising it.

At 20 years old, I've never even had a pregnancy scare.

Kids are only as smart or as dumb as the parents make them. But saying No and banning things is not the answer, neither are scare tactics because a kid just thinks "it won't happen to me" they don't think about the log term, they're not pessimistic enough to think it'll be them with the hole in their throat just like they don't think it'll be them with the positive aids test. It's not REAL enough to them. All the scare tactics do is make it more fake and they associate it with a horror movie. What 13 year old do you know that thinks Freddie will kill them if they go to sleep??

Not trying to lecture or to sound like I know parenting better than anyone out there. I'm the first to say that I'd make a horrible mother. I've got the maternal instinct of a tom cat. But what I do know is kids, and being a kid, and it's still very fresh in my memory, more specifically being that type of kid that rebels against any rule or regulation that can be laid down which in most cases is the type want to smoke regardless of the smoking bans, laws, taxes, and social views on the subject.

 

[DaMulta]

I could see your boy sneaking in for the good stash of E-Liquid lol.


What E-Cig did you end up getting?

 

[Ryle]

Looks like your theory has worked well in our current history of cigarette smokers.....tell me. What drew you to smoking....if you were indeed a smoker?

Also to note. Cigars and pipe tobacco had variable flavors long before e-cigs ever did.

But, to be honest...they say it's not the flavor of the item, it's the package. Look around. Your beloved phillip morris(note, no capitalization) is doing a pretty good job of keeping children uninterested. Best form of persuasion is to tell a kid not to do it and he has advertisements posted everywhere in a humorous fashion....as if to say, don't do it....just kidding!

Um.. maybe I'm wrong here.. but I'm pretty sure he was being totally sarcastic with his post.

I could see your boy sneaking in for the good stash of E-Liquid lol.


What E-Cig did you end up getting?

Was your question directed at me or someone else

 

[dedmonwakin]

Um.. maybe I'm wrong here.. but I'm pretty sure he was being totally sarcastic with his post.

Your probably right. I just can't tell when people are being sincere when they don't use these!8-o or this...<sarcasm>

These really help! Hell, look at how the original post started....who can tell?

 

[Ryle]

I tend to assume in favor of the more positive side of things because if I don't.. well if you search you can find some of my posts where I assumed wrong I can get a bit snappy when I feel someone deserves it and I love smileys.. and *"action"* things... it's the best way to express myself sometimes.

Oh.. and you cant forget my dot dot dots.... it's also a good way to express what I'm trying to say it's kind of like pausing or something, add in the umm's and uhhh's and combine it with the smiles and actions and you may as well be talking face to face

 

[dedmonwakin]

I tend to assume in favor of the more positive side of things because if I don't.. well if you search you can find some of my posts where I assumed wrong I can get a bit snappy when I feel someone deserves it and I love smileys.. and *"action"* things... it's the best way to express myself sometimes.

Oh.. and you cant forget my dot dot dots.... it's also a good way to express what I'm trying to say it's kind of like pausing or something, add in the umm's and uhhh's and combine it with the smiles and actions and you may as well be talking face to face

I'm glad I'm not the only one to see it this way.

You can't forget to mention that your pretty long winded.....not sure what it would be called in the form of text,.....long key stroked?

I read your post in the Vaping in Public section. I must say, I think I would be more likely to agree with you, even if I really don't... to avoid having to respond to such a massive post......

Just kidding.......no I'm not. lol

 

[Ryle]

I really don't talk much most of the time, I've been known to know someone for months before I say more than 5 words to them. But once I get warmed up it's hard to shut me up

 

[Bryan]

didn't bother to read thru the whole thread, been reading way to much lately. just wanted to point out that it's kind of stupid to be asking for MORE govt. They already screw us every way from sunday and now we are asking for more? no thnx! not pointed at the OP, just in general. Let parents handle the parenting, not the freaking govt, how lazy are we becoming.

 

[Erised]

Um.. maybe I'm wrong here.. but I'm pretty sure he she was being totally sarcastic with his her post.

Yep, I totally was.

Erised

 

[sgupta]

My thought is (and this is just my opinion and how I would probably handle it), if you caught your son smoking traditional cigarettes, or he smelled like them or even strongly expressed interest in starting, this could be a positive thing, as he's switching from something dangerous to something hopefully much safer (assuming you can't get him to quit them entirely).

If he's not smoking now, or if he's not expressing interest in smoking, I wouldn't play with fire. He can decide when he's of legal age if he wants to start vaping (or you can introduce him if he starts smoking analogs beyond your control), and the flavors will still be enjoyable.

If he doesn't smoke now, reinforcing the hand-to-mouth motion might not be a good idea for several reasons (all what-ifs, but worth thinking about):

- If the FDA ever decided to ban e-cigarettes, it would be hard to get supplies, etc., and he might decide to switch to the real thing. You mentioned no-nic, which is good, but there is evidence that rituals and habits, like hand to mouth motion, can be quite addicting in themselves. He could decide he "needs" to feed that desire, even if analogs are the only choice.

- You mention a lot of flavors, but it can be somewhat tricky finding all of them in no-nic formula. What happens if he really wants to try a flavor and decides to go for the nic, then becomes addicted?

- There are high maintenance costs associated with e-cigs, so he might decide regular smokes are less hassle...

- If younger people start smoking e-cigs, it does give the FDA more ammunition to ban them altogether, and they may not care whether they contain nic or no nic. Now, I think this is ridiculous on the FDA's part, but I still think it could be used.

So in short, my opinion is if you're trying to convert your son to something safer than he's already doing, I can see it. But if you just think this might be fun for him, it could (unintentionally) lead to habits that could be detrimental to him in the long run. Worst case, I know, but could happen.

Energy drinks for many people (and I sometimes drink them) are once-in-a-while things; e-smoking is not necessarily as it's more accessible in some ways. (And if someone is drinking energy drinks constantly, that's not good for 'em either - lol).

Again, no judgments here - just my two cents based on my thinking.

 

[KreeL]

Buy him a GG. It will break you of the habit of poor parenting soon after he loses it.

 

[Ryle]

Yep, I totally was.

Erised

Ooops.. sorry hun.. didn't realize you were a woman... Forgive me?