Whats the diff in performance 18650 2900mah vs 18650 1600mah high drain

[Rippspeed]

Like the question say... Whats the difference in performance between a 18650 2900mah vs high drain 18650 1600mah (other than the mah rating) when used with a Low Resistance carto/atty ???

I was hoping some of you smarter people could shed some light on this for me.... Thanx in advance...

 

[Shel]

I was hoping some of you smarter people could shed some light on this for me.... Thanx in advance...

Well, while we both wait for "smarter people" to give you their input, I can tell you what I've heard....

I have recently received my Ali'i... a bottom feed wood box mod. The builder, Ryan, recommended using an 18650 1600mah LiMN batteries. He explained that while the 2900mah will give you a very strong vap initially, as the battery drains, the vap will get cooler and not quite as strong.

With the 1600 mAh high drain, their preformance will not degrade. You'll get the same strong vap, throughout the life of the battery, right up until it dies and you need to recharge it.

He said that these are the ones he uses himself, in his Ali'i, so I figured that those are the ones I'd go with.

Got them yesterday, so I've only used them for one day, but so far, they're working great.

Hope this helps somewhat!

 

[Drozd]

in the 18650 size really nothing...in that size it really does come down to mAh...

let's say you're using a 1.5Ω LR atty...
at 3.7V the amp draw of that is 2.47A
an AW 2600 mAh Li-Ion 18650 is capable of about 5.2A
an AW 1600mAh LiMN high drain 18650 is capable of about 16A
both are more than sufficient so it comes down to mAh for how long the battery will lst between charges...

so that 2600mAh battery will give you about 1263 3 second long button presses per charge with that atty
and
the 1600mAh high drain will give you about 779 3 second long button presses per charge with that atty

(I can show you the math if you really want)

where LiMN versus Li-Ion matters is in smaller batteries like a 14500 or a 16340
given the same atty on a 14500 size battery you'd have the same amp draw... 2.47A
now an ultrafire 900mAh 14500 battery is capable of delivering 1.3A
an AW 750mAh 14500 battery capable of 1.5A
and an AW 600mAh LiMN high drain 14500 is capable of 5.2A
so there the high drain is the only one that can meet the Amp draw... the other 2 you'll have voltage sag and overstressed battery which will lead to the battery decreasing in capacity and cycle life over time...


but that's where the turning point is between the 16340 and the 18650...

 

[Rippspeed]

DROZD:
so if we're talking about using nothing but Low Resistance atty/carto high drains are the way to go for best overall performance, durability, and life...

 

[Drozd]

DROZD:
so if we're talking about using nothing but Low Resistance atty/carto high drains are the way to go for best overall performance, durability, and life...

not quite that simple...but yes and no
in an 18650 size.. high drain really is un needed overkill and just costs battery life between charges..

in smaller size batteries it all depends on what atty you're using...
a 1.5Ω atty at 3.7V is 2.47A... a standard joye 510 atty at 2.2Ω is 1.61A...a knock off 510 atty or a boge carto at 3.5Ω is 1.05A...

so like using that 14500 size for example... even a standard 510 is overstressing the regular Li-Ions a bit and the LiMN would be better but would only be close to being stressed with the knock off atty or the higher Ohm cartos...

I tend to worst case senario it figuring that if it can handle the lowest Ohm atty or carto you're going to throw at it then it can handle everything else...
and that's the thing in the 18650 size even with the questionable QC of the *fire batteries a regular Li-Ion is capable of handling the worst case senario without having to jump to high drain at the cost of life per charge

 

[Rippspeed]

DROZD:
I'm talking about AW IMR18650 vs AW 18650 2900mahs here... Your one of the reason why I only buy AW's from our last conversation on 16340...

The specs on the AW IMR 18650 1600mah is good up to 500charge
cycles... which to me isnt bad at all...

I'll most likely use KR808 low resistance cartos or 510 low resistan e cartos but leaning towards the kr's more because of my experience on them using my AVS/AFSv2

 

[Drozd]

DROZD:
I'm talking about AW IMR18650 vs AW 18650 2900mahs here... Your one of the reason why I only buy AW's from our last conversation on 16340...

The specs on the AW IMR 18650 1600mah is good up to 500charge cycles... which to me isnt bad at all...

right when we're talking just the 18650 size I really see no need for the IMR...
even with a LR atty you're not going to see an improved performance only a shorter runtime per charge...
I'm not really experienced with that 2900mAh one...it's a new chemistry and is 3.6V versus 3.7V which may not be a huge difference... I havent done all the math on it...
I trend toward the flat top 2600mAh myself (as long as flat tops will work in your chosen mod)...

but between the 2600mAh ICR and the 1600mAh IMR ...the only difference you're going to see is a difference in runtime per charge
with a 1.5Ω LR atty:
2600mAh ICR..... 3789 seconds continuous runtime
1600mAh IMR.....2337 seconds continuous runtime

with a 2.3Ω joye 510 atty:
2600mAh ICR......5806 seconds continuous runtime
1600mAh IMR.....3564 seconds continuous runtime

then something like a 3.5Ω atty or carto:
2600mAh ICR.....8780 seconds
1600mAh IMR....5454 seconds

obviously you divide those continuous seconds by the average length you press the button and you'll get a # of button presses per battery charge...
Li-Ions (ICR) and the high drains (IMR) both are capable of surpassing the amp draw of whatever atty you're attaching to them... so it does come down to amount of time per charge...and as you can see from the numbers the difference in runtime between a LR atty and a standard atty get pretty dramatic..and the differences between the ICR and the IMR get more evident too..
If I were satisfied with a standard SLB 510 atty I could run it for days on that single 2600mAh ICR (8780 continuous seconds is like 48 hours strait of hitting the button every minute for 3 seconds, or 29 hours strait for 5 second button presses every minute)

even with the 1.5Ω LR atty on that 2600mAh ICR it's 21 hours at a 3 second button press per minute versus 12 with the IMR

 

[jcamacho]

Excellent explanation Drozd, as usual, I'm bookmarking this page for future reference. I keep hearing different stories from other so-called battery experts, but unless I hear it from you, they get tossed out.

 

[jcamacho]

Hey Drozd, what can you tell me about the new redilast battery? Are you familiar with these, supposed to be superior to AW.

 

[Rippspeed]

Drozd:
OK ;
I had someone say

"Basically the high drain battery provides more amperage, rather than voltage to sustain the increased power demand of the low resistance atties. Even standard atomizers will work a bit better on high drains."

So this statement isnt true for the AW 18650 2900mah, then ???

And will i have voltage sag on a 18650 2900mah ??? I mean will it slowly decrease performance as I use up the battery ???

Help me out Drozd ... I'm waiting for your input to pull the trigger on this

 

[Drozd]

Drozd:
OK ;
I had someone say

"Basically the high drain battery provides more amperage, rather than voltage to sustain the increased power demand of the low resistance atties. Even standard atomizers will work a bit better on high drains."

So this statement isnt true for the AW 18650 2900mah, then ???

And will i have voltage sag on a 18650 2900mah ??? I mean will it slowly decrease performance as I use up the battery ???

Help me out Drozd ... I'm waiting for your input to pull the trigger on this

that statement is only half true when we are talking about 18650 batteries...
yes high drains are capable of providing more amperage...
in an 18650 battery that aditional ampreage is un needed....
a high drain will perform the same as a Li-Ion...LR atties and standard atties will perform no better...

(the statement is wholely true when we are talking about other battery sizes)

as long as the battery is capable of delivering more amperage than the amp draw of a given atty at a given voltage....it'll only supply the amps required by the amp draw...
so if the amp draw is 2.47A ....and one battery is capable of 5.2A and another 16A....they'll both perform the same and only deliver 2.47A...

 

[NCC]

VERY informative Drozd!

Another question for you?

Do LR atomizers overstress eGo style batteries?

TIA

 

[Drozd]

VERY informative Drozd!

Another question for you?

Do LR atomizers overstress eGo style batteries?

TIA

yeah they do...there's been several threads on that...
the batteries themselves but moreso the mosfet in them... the mosfet isnt rated to handle the increased amperage with a LR atty so the mosfet degrades...it's kinda a crapshoot of when the mosfet will fail though...

 

[NCC]

I missed those threads somehow. Looks like I've got some reading to do, starting here ...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...ance-specific-batteries.html?highlight=mosfet
Thanks again.

 

[NCC]

I've got a somewhat related question that I'd like to tag along rather than starting a thread of its own.

I notice on the Super T site, in the 18650, they've got both the regular LiIon (which I know little about) and a LiNiCoO2 NNP, which I know nothing about. Does anyone here know if the later is worth the extra $3.50? Does the different chemistry contribute significantly to its functionality?

 

[dspin]

Excellent explanation Drozd, as usual, I'm bookmarking this page for future reference. I keep hearing different stories from other so-called battery experts, but unless I hear it from you, they get tossed out.

I agree, exactly right

 

[Drozd]

I've got a somewhat related question that I'd like to tag along rather than starting a thread of its own.

I notice on the Super T site, in the 18650, they've got both the regular LiIon (which I know little about) and a LiNiCoO2 NNP, which I know nothing about. Does anyone here know if the later is worth the extra $3.50? Does the different chemistry contribute significantly to its functionality?

the different chemistry makes it a lighter battery....but it's also 3.6V instead of 3.7V... they are also flat top cells (like the AW 2600mAh) so may not work in certain mods that require the use of a button top...
they also have some new heat resistant layer technology that is supposed to help protect them from overheating even if a short happens... and they were developed by panasonic...
here's more from the AW guy about them: AW's LiIon Batteries Sales Thread *Part 12* - CPFMarketPlace

 

[Polioud]

the different chemistry makes it a lighter battery....but it's also 3.6V instead of 3.7V... they are also flat top cells (like the AW 2600mAh) so may not work in certain mods that require the use of a button top...
they also have some new heat resistant layer technology that is supposed to help protect them from overheating even if a short happens... and they were developed by panasonic...
here's more from the AW guy about them: AW's LiIon Batteries Sales Thread *Part 12* - CPFMarketPlace

Aren't these essentialy the same as Redilast's 2900 ones? (i.e. new Panasonic cells)

 

[Rippspeed]

Aren't these essentialy the same as Redilast's 2900 ones? (i.e. new Panasonic cells)

where can we order those Redilast ???

 

[Polioud]

Redilast (cpf page)