What's up with all the China hate?

[Arnie H]

Time for another controversial discussion.

What is going on with this attitude or hatred against Chinese products?

I am seeing this on Facebook, here, and several other places.

Don't get me wrong, as an American, I believe in supporting US based businesses, as a North Carolinian I also believe in supporting NC based ones, and on the local level I believe in supporting the local vape shops.

But I cannot understand this sort of thing. Whether it has to do with e-liquid from Dekang, or Chinese made clones, people are saying things like "I will never buy from fasttech", "I will never buy a clone", "Chinese juice is gross and disgusting", and "the Chinese can't be trusted". This leaves a bad taste in my mouth and smacks of elitism and something else, which I will not mention here.

I have tried some Dekang juices, and frankly some are pretty darn good IMO, There are also some well made mod clones that are great and I thank the clone makers for making things available to people who could not otherwise afford to enjoy these products, or perhaps choose not to spend $300 dollars on what is essentially a metal tube with a button and 510 connection.

Education I believe is the key to enlightenment. This and a course on the history of the development of the electronic cigarette and the vital role China has played/is playing in the vaping culture seems to be in order. Is everyone aware that Kanger, Joyetech (the original maker of the eGo battery), Vision, and a host of other companies are located in China? That the "RY" in the much loved RY4 e-juice, stands for the Ruyan company, a Chinese company and one of the pioneers of ecigs?

The sheer size of the Fasttech thread here on ECF, demonstrates thet many people are happy with the low cost and quality of many Chinese products, even if they have to wait ages for them to arrive (as is currently the situation). I confess, I used to have this opinion myself regarding some non-vaping related Chinese goods, but then I started to read and learn and the more I learned, the more I knew that this perception was/is false and is frankly insulting to the Chinese people. Yes, there are some badly/cheaply made products, but every country makes some badly made stuff, in some shape or form.

Ok, my rant is over (steps down from the soapbox).

 

[dwarfcat]

They allowed their own children to be poisoned. I would trust them with my health on the other side of the globe why?

 

[dwarfcat]

Ill buy chinese electronics but no ejuice or food if I can help it

 

[retired1]

Going to say this right now. First of the usual suspects who jumps in with the sole purpose of derailing the thread won't have just a post deletion.

 

[Izan]

Can o' worms...


I

 

[TruckDrivinMama]

Well Im part Chinese myself. Lived in Hong Kong so Ive dealt with a handful of vendors and manufacturers in person. Truthfully, i can understand why some have negative sentiments about Chinese products ie products lacking QC, juices not meeting customer satisfaction, etc. I too have had the share of frustration of buying from a Chinese vendor and not having products up to par which leaves me thinking they have a bad reputation. But i choose not to generalise that all Chinese products are inferior because i did have pleasant experiences buying from certain vendors as well which left me with nothing but a smile and a great day's vape.

I believe we as buyers sometimes generalise and come to criticise too soon after the first few buys. Yes and as the OP said, education (research too) as well as communication will make a more pleasant transaction.

 

[flowerpots]

I think most ecig hardware out there is of Chinese origin, isn't it? You either buy direct or pay the middleman. I support many local businesses and use buying power as best as I can to support causes I value.

I can't say I am 100% comfortable with using food products or juices made in China, given the issues we've had with pet food in the recent past, but I do think people have their hate in the wrong place many times. I have had as good of an experience or better with fasttech than I have with American owned and run companies, and better customer service in many cases.

 

[Myrany]

I have done a few orders from Fasttech and it has been the usual mixed bag of quality Some things are excellent, some not so great, and some get tossed on first use. It is the risk one takes when they order cheap stuff.

As for the liquids. I personally do not buy them but then again I DIY so I don't in general buy liquids from anyone. That said https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OWR65NTH9B4 shows a fantastically clean manufacturing facility with I might note ALL ADULT workers.

Cloned gear. This is a mixed bag of tricks really. If the originator of the design took no steps to protect the design no matter what any of us think about the ethics of clones the cloner is not doing anything wrong. If the originator did file the paperwork to protect the design then I agree the clone is wrong. In the end people have to make their own choice on buying clones many of which have broken no laws in the making.

Shipping? What can I say? It is what it is. It takes however long it takes. Sometimes quick and sometimes months. Just something you deal with when you order from China.

 

[ScottP]

Umm unless I am mistaken, other than Provari, nearly all of the hardware we use is Chinese made. Innokin, Kanger, Boge, Vision, etc. are all Chinese companies. I would even guess that ALL of the nic base that even the US juice makers use also comes from China.

 

[artt]

As for juice I don't trust the safety regulations (or lack of) from China. As for apv's everyone can decide what's best for themselves. I've purchased "mods" from Altsmoke, Super-T, and the now defunct Puresmoker. All worked out of the box without adjusting, sanding or tweaking in any way. So in practical terms I feel the upfront money spent on quality devices was best for me.

 

[Beckyjc]

A fair bit of the stuff I've been buying in the uk from renowned vendors I've noticed on fasttech for a lot cheaper. Non branded evods I've paid £6 for. 1300ma ego battery I paid £15 for...

they must get there stock from somewhere. Majority of vape gear is made in China it seems, same with ejuice and flavourings. I have no problem with the quality.

 

[tobacco-kills]

My 2 cents. I think Chinese production and clones will expand growth here. Right now the mods carried in most vape shops are way too expensive. Most of the population cant afford a 200 dollar clone or 100 dollar starter kit. They should start carrying more clones and products from kanger, joytech and kamry. More profit for B and W shops and it will open vaping to an entire new populace instead of just vaping enthusiast. As for the original mods, theyre never gonna lose there value or depreciate. You cant really outdate mechanical mods. theres not much technology in them except for the build. being so the originals I know have a lot of rarity. its a win-win situation. But I do see online vendors hurting. As for people who shop online will just go straight to fast tech, but it will also promote more brick and motor shops. This is a good industry that has just began to grow. More vape shops on the streets means more economic growth, more jobs, and less vacant businesses and stores. The only thing I see destroying this industry is from the inside out. It grows so quick and unchecked that these mods start blowing in peoples faces, and e juice starts really harming people. Competition can create that. Lets hope it doesn't.

Again this is my 2 cents

 

[james chapman]

I have no problem with Chinese products. I have had a lot of Made in USA products(not vape) Hoses that were pure trash. Make a good product and I don't care where it comes from. I drive Japanese cars(Toyotas),because they last forever. I do prefer German products. Most people won't drive a car for 10 years,but I do,my Tacoma a 1997.

 

[Pinggolfer]

I certainly purchase way too many products from China only because that's where our jobs went. I can however buy these Chinese products from US dealers. Granted China took it's cut, but at least I'm keeping some American's working. I will never purchase Chinese Ejuice as they can't even make dog food. I hate to think of some 7 year old mixing my ejuice.

 

[Ipster]

Definitely a can of worms...but this week in particular- I am loosing patience with the "impatient consumer".
The USA has got to have the most insular news of any nation on the planet. For those that arent aware, a HUGE
typhoon has effected the HongKong, and Asian geographies this week. This means not only the onland damages, deaths, destructions
but also the surrouding Seas, Ocean transport, ie:shipping lanes both "to and From" also (fwiw)impacting airport cargo.
So to put it back in "insular" format: I wonder how many consumers wouldve been screaming mad about an order delayed during and
a day after Hurricane's Katrina or Sandy and the city of New Orleans or say Staten Island NY??
Added to the Storm, the HongKong community does celebrate a National Holiday this time of year (lasts about a week).
The "western nations" do this also..typically between December 24 and January 2.
If a personal choice dictates a consumer buy products made in thier own country, that's fine. They're supporting the local economy.
I think a little resepct for folks having "choice" and "personal preferences" would be prevalent amongs vapors?
some say Tom-aye-Toe; some say Tom-ah-Toe.
lets support each country for its strengths, each persons purchasing choices. This includes the understanding of logistics
in sending physical items half or 3/4s way around the planet and the time that takes. Its commonly called a "variable"
Ive seen items flown from Malaysia to USA in 48 hours; also in 3 weeks.
THere's the whole range of quality items from mass produced to hand turned on a craftsman's lathe in different countries.
I'm not convinced of a products inherent superiority based solely on WHERE its made. the product either speaks for itsself in
apparent quality of craftsmanship, materials and performance or not. Same for high quantity, fast production, low cost products.
Either the production suits the supply needs or not.

 

[Jackstraw]

I vape almost 100% Dekang juice. I like it, the price is great, it works for me and I buy it from a USA distributor. I've seen pictures of their lab and it looks like a certified clean-room. I'm told they have the equivalent of USA Food grade certification. No hate here.

 

[D. Waterhouse]

I have no problem with Chinese products. I have had a lot of Made in USA products(not vape) Hoses that were pure trash. Make a good product and I don't care where it comes from. I drive Japanese cars(Toyotas),because they last forever. I do prefer German products. Most people won't drive a car for 10 years,but I do,my Tacoma a 1997.

I've got a '96 Chevy Cavalier with over a quarter million miles on it with less than $600 spent on repairs and it's still going strong. I still say best deal was my '84 Toyota Celica I picked up for $500 and put a hundred thousand on in two years with six oil changes. I beat that thing like a rented mule, to be young and stupid with cheap gas again.

 

[Baditude]

I have mixed feelings about Chinese products. I've never used their e-liquids, so I will refrain any comment on those.

I use Chinese-made cartomizers and clearomizers. When clearomizers made by name brand companies such as Kanger, Innokin, and Vision are used, I've had relatively good success with them. Off brand or generics are hit or miss...mostly miss. Anything made by Smoktech or Boge has been very hit or miss from my personal experience. Ikenvape cartomizers are made in China, but are manufactured to higher standards due to the specifications agreed upon between the owner of Ikenvape and the un-named manufacterer, so I have found them to be a superior cartomizer compared to the others. China CAN make quality products, but many of those manufacturers seem to not put a priority on this.

There is no question in my mind that the manufacturing mindset of Chinese mod makers is, "We make cheap, you buy cheap, it break you buy another." China has yet to make a mod comparable to the quality of a Provari, and will never offer the company support after warranty that Provape does. I want my money going towards dependability & durability, better components & technology -- not on flashy features that have nothing to do with my vaping experience expectations. If my mod stops working, I want to be able to get it repaired and returned as fast as possible. These are my expectations, and whether customers decide to spend less for lesser quality and very limited support, or spend more for higher quality and lifetime support, is totally their choice to make.

 

[ScottP]

I think a lot of people are mistakenly associating "Name Brand" to be from some other random country and "Clones" to all be from China. Which is NOT the case. Most of the Name brand stuff we use is also China made. Besides the companies I already mentioned in my previous post, lets look at Joyetech. This is a company based in ShenZhen China yet everyone swears by the quality of their batteries. Yet if they buy a knock off from a different Chinese company they start complaining about poor Chinese quality controls. It really is mind boggling. Just because you choose to buy an inferior product from the same country doesn't mean all products from the same country are bad.

Name brands work hard to build brand confidence. They are going to work harder on QC to make sure that people associate their brand name with quality...this is regardless of the country of origin. On the other hand, knockoff companies do not usually brand their stuff so that they can slip their trash in without you knowing who is responsible. They do not care if their stuff works or not because you don't know who made it...this is also regardless of the country of origin. Bottom line, if you stick with popular brand names that have built trust in quality then you will be fine. If you bargain hunt and get products from unknown manufacturers that "look" like the brand name...well you got what you paid for...regardless of the country of origin.

 

[dr g]

There are legitimate reasons to question the influence of Chinese business on this -- and any -- industry, many markets have been tremendously distorted by Chinese business inflience. This industry is no exception. But boy it's a tough row to hoe as a little guy to pass up the pricing advantages.

When big business got in bed with Chinese manufacturing, and rather than sharing the increased profits with western workers, took the profits for themselves, the proverbial die was cast. The lot of the western middle class has been declining ever since. One of the few ways for the consumer to stay afloat is to also avail him or herself of the pricing advantage.