What's up with all the China hate?

[CommaHolly]

considering the price of the Chinese made items, I think the quality isn't half bad,,,,,,

have any of you who talk about the lack of safety regulations ever seen a Chinese juice factory?

you might be surprised,,,,,,,,

Chinese E-liquid Manufacturing Facilities - YouTube

 

[irwink]

China is the next emerging super power. The US is in decline. The proof is everywhere except for those that choose to take the ostrich approach. The US seems to be doing everything in its power to speed the process.

"The Chinese don't look like us or act like us or speak the same language so they are incapable of producing a decent product, right?"

WRONG.

There are Chinese products that are junk. There are US products that are junk. Choose your junk.

The world is changing as it has always done and will continue to do. Deal with it.

Anyone else here remember when "made in Japan" was a joke? I do.

 

[Arnie H]

Very intelligent posts so far. I thank you. Please continue.

Let me add that I respect peoples right to choose, but sometimes I see people making these choices based on what others say about something, should we not keep an open mind? Before we denounce a product, or person, or country, should we not seek to learn more about the subject and maybe even try it for ourselves so that we may come to our own informed conclusion? I had a person tell me once they would not see a movie because they heard it was "controversial", and while I respect their right to make this choice, I wonder about the logic involved.

Try a thing, see a thing, do a thing, learn more about a thing, then you will be in a more enlightened position to form an opinion about a thing, or person, or idea, or what have you.

 

[NiNi]

I don't have a problem with vape gear made in China and sold in the US. I'd rather support the online Vape Stores in the USA, whatever the markup, just to keep the "local" option viable.
I think it's "Hansen" that's the new kid on the block with DIY flavoring? They're from Asia, don't know if it's China, but have noticed some online vendors putting them up on their sites. I don't know what the issue is with Dekang, maybe alcohol in it? Dunno.
As far as the whole shipping and customs? I'm just going to say "no". Ordered some ejuice from Israel, and as I get the tracking notification email every morning, I wonder what the heck was I thinking? I'm more than sure that there are plenty of other US vendors that have the same and probably better quality ejuice. Just got sucked into the "hype".
But I have my '94 Toyota 4x4 and it is by far the best truck I've ever owned, it's smaller than the 3/4 and 1 ton trucks I've had from Chevy and Dodge, but it takes a licking and keeps on ticking. Other than that, I pretty much buy American or through American vendors.
Owning 2 businesses, I know how hard it can be keeping your head above water just with local competition.

 

[Thunderball]

I have mixed feelings about Chinese products. I've never used their e-liquids, so I will refrain any comment on those.

I use Chinese made cartomizers and clearomizers. When clearomizers made by name brand companies such as Kanger, Innokin, and Vision are used, I've had relatively good success with them. Off brand or generics are hit or miss...mostly miss. Anything made by Smoktech or Boge has been very hit or miss from my personal experience. Ikenvape cartomizers are made in China, but are manufactured to higher standards due to the specifications agreed upon between the owner of Ikenvape and the un-named manufacterer, so I have found them to be a superior cartomizer compared to the others. China CAN make quality products, but many seem to not put a priority on this.

There is no question in my mind, that the manufacturing mindset of Chinese mod makers is, "We make cheap, you buy cheap, it break you buy another." China has yet to make a mod comparable to the quality of a Provari, and will never offer the company support after warranty that Provape does. This is a fact, and whether customers decide to spend less for lesser quality and very limited support, or spend more for higher quality and lifetime support, is up to the customers.

+ 1 Well said.

 

[Ipster]

Anyone else here remember when "made in Japan" was a joke? I do.

Indeed...so to date, Im still interested in purchase some items clearly/legimately marked "Made in occupied Japan"

 

[Ipster]

Very intelligent posts so far. I thank you. Please continue.

Let me add that I respect peoples right to choose, but sometimes I see people making these choices based on what others say about something, should we not keep an open mind? Before we denounce a product, or person, or country, should we not seek to learn more about the subject and maybe even try it for ourselves so that we may come to our own informed conclusion? I had a person tell me once they would not see a movie because they heard it was "controversial", and while I respect their right to make this choice, I wonder about the logic involved.

Try a thing, see a thing, do a thing, learn more about a thing, then you will be in a more enlightened position to form an opinion about a thing, or person, or idea, or what have you.

Good point Arnie H., but fwiw sometimes in Vaping it does help noobs to see a "track record" for a reliable product or vendor.
I also think it helps in online safe shopping, adding others have had good experiences somewhere.

 

[Rickajho]

You instigatin'

I'm not seeing what you're selling. If anything, god forbid you criticize FT here or the FT Fanbois will dump all over you. What does really bug me is all the people - a lot of them - that dump all over non China vendors if they dare make one more penny than FT does in profit to keep their US business open. The word "ripoff" is applied a lot to any place that charges 10 cents more than FT does for anything. That I don't agree with, but I'm not about to get into a pointless "discussion" about it either. If you get a warm fuzzy supporting the China economy directly while ...... all over any US supplier that can't or won't sell you the same thing for a FT price - well I hope you feel all warm and fuzzy 'bout that.

 

[ScottP]

I will also add this. Sometimes even good companies can make a bad product. Keeping with the vaping theme, the Smoktech ARO is in my opinion a MASTERPIECE. A BCC Pyrex tank, with aluminum protective shell, that out performs my Kanger branded EVODs all day long. However the Smoktech version of the Vivi Novas are blatantly inferior to those made by Vision. Two products, same company, one is pure awesomeness and the other not worth the materials it is made out of.

The same can be true of US companies. How many people did Firestone tires kill due to the rubber coming off of the tires before they were recalled? What about the Ford Exploders...I mean Explorers that had to be recalled due to spontaneous combustion from the defective Cruise Control Activation Switch? Speaking of Ford and fires, in 1996 they recalled 7,900,000 Ford, Lincoln, and Mercury vehicles in the U.S. from model year 1988 through 1993 for a defect in the ignition switch causing the cars to catch ablaze. Some that were parked in garages even burned down the attached houses. These were not minor defects yet made it past QC in American companies.

 

[tobacco-kills]

Ton contribute to local economy, buying from local stores would definitely aid a lot more than buying from any online vendor based in the us. Online vendors, most of the time only have the expenses of there inventory and site maintenance. when you buy from your local store the profit is theoretically spilled down to the owner, his employees, and his land lord to whom he pays rent too.

 

[serenity21899]

I try to buy American products whenever possible. I also feel like even if I buy a Chinese mod, I should buy it here, as well. Really, I try to support my local vape shops, where I buy all of my juice (that I don't DIY), and other stuff too.

I will not buy anything on Fasttech ever, but I don't tell others where to shop. I earned the money and I can spend it where I choose. And I don't feel I need to apologize for my choices.

 

[rotku]

I try to keep up with a few threads, including the Fasttech thread. I do not pick up the anti-Chinese vibe in the posts I read. I think most people recognize we are in a vapor culture that is dominated by Chinese products. I also get the sense that many people accept, for better or worse, quality issues, delivery delays, language barriers, and customer service as a part of the deal. I also think that many of the issues are related to the explosion in growth of the vaping community. I am not so sure that if it were an American or European dominated industry that we would not experience the same challenges. I think an example would be the software industry. American based programs and games that are released with tons of issues that need constant fixing. Once the market is stabilized, beyond the growth stage, those companies that provide good product at a fair price will endure, the others will fade away.

 

[Ipster]

considering the price of the Chinese made items, I think the quality isn't half bad,,,,,,

have any of you who talk about the lack of safety regulations ever seen a Chinese juice factory?

you might be surprised,,,,,,,,

Chinese E-liquid Manufacturing Facilities - YouTube

Thanks CommaHolly. This couldve been Chinas response to the emergence ofthe Croatian e-Juice rise in the E.U. consumer marketplace.
Apart from the hardware, Croatia was big on selling the "pharmaceutical" grade concept, and early to group together for standards (like the USA does with AEMSA)l
As ECF demonstrates though, theres a global marketplace for suppliers as well as consumers. Customers can find the goods from England, Germany, Croatia, Canada, as well as Hong Kong and China are marketing with English language website sales.
IIRC, one of the very first 510 e-cig kits I looked at years back was Eastern EU (Czech or Croat).
Choices choices choices....Good thing theres ECF to help with the navigation.

 

[NiNi]

Ton contribute to local economy, buying from local stores would definitely aid a lot more than buying from any online vendor based in the us. Online vendors, most of the time only have the expenses of there inventory and site maintenance. when you buy from your local store the profit is theoretically spilled down to the owner, his employees, and his land lord to whom he pays rent too.

I wish I had that option, but 30+ miles away and gas prices? Not going to happen. And if I have to go to "Town", it's Home Depot, and then I just want to get in and get out. Wish there was one close, it would have made my journey into vaping a bit easier!

 

[ScottP]

If you get a warm fuzzy supporting the China economy directly while ...... all over any US supplier that can't or won't sell you the same thing for a FT price - well I hope you feel all warm and fuzzy 'bout that.

Personally I choose where to buy first on reputation of the vendor then on price. In this day and age of credit card theft, the fewer vendors with my info the better I am. I will pay a few $ more to buy from someone I have previously purchased from just to prevent that. That said, I will buy from FT but normally only when the price difference is significant. I bought my Innokin brand SVD from FastTech mainly because I only wanted the basic kit (PV and 1 tube) instead of the full kit (PV, 2 tubes, 2 iClear 30's and 3 replacement heads). I could not find any US vendors at the time that sold the basic kit, they all only had the full kit. My savings on this purchase was $63 and I didn't pay for crap that I didn't even want. I would call that significant cost difference and I still got the name brand.

 

[WattWick]

There is so much confused nationalism and borderline racism in many posts on this board. Even tho it ticks me off at times, I choose to see it as ignorant black-and-white thinking.

 

[HDVaper]

If my Dekang e-juice kills me so be it. You gotta croak from something sometime so I might as well enjoy while I'm still kickin'. I'll continue to use it 'til I can't get it anymore. However I believe threads like this one just gives the anti-vaping folks more ammunition against us. You know they read posts on this forum. If you have concerns in this area please discuss them privately.

Just my

 

[DoogieTony]

Personally I have no reason to order anything vape related from china, both my mods are American made and outperform anything I've had of Chinese origins. I Diy my liquids so unless my nic base was shipped from there to the company I purchased it from, I stay with American companies as well.
Overall its been my experience that Chinese made products, while low in cost, are inferior if I'm looking to buy quality.

Also the business practices of several of the major Chinese manufacturing companies are completely morally bankrupt (i.e. cloning/copying others work).

 

[six]

Some people have strong feelings about how Chinese products are made... or rather, who makes them and under what conditions.

If you've ever visited the larger Chinese shipping and manufacturing hubs, you would notice the labor force is largely made up of young girls between 14 and 18 years. They often work 16-19 hour shifts sometimes 90-100 days (or more) straight between any time off. Hourly wages are calculated in amounts anyone in the West would consider as unacceptable amounts --cents per hour or a few dollars/euros per day. They live in company owned dormitories with their housing deducted directly from their pay. They eat meals provided by the same companies and paid for the same way. Their personal items are obtained from commissaries owned by the same companies and also deducted directly from their pay.

While these conditions are sometimes an improvement over the conditions they might have had in their family homes, they are still quite unacceptable by pretty much any measure most could think of. --- US residents will mostly understand my reference of Tennessee Ernie Ford's song 16 Tons. "You load 16 tons and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt". Debt bondage is an idea the West has wholeheartedly rejected, but we do indeed support it by supporting Chinese manufacturing.

I've been there. I've seen it with my own eyes. If there was some easy button solution to fix it, that sure would be nice... I'll leave the protests and boycotts to those more emotionally invested in it than I am, but when presented with a choice I can afford that doesn't feed that system, I'll pick not supporting that system every time.

 

[crxess]

I'd love to say I enjoy all the Support American Business bla bla bla I keep reading. Fact is most will jump from one merchant to another just to save a few bucks. So much for customer loyalty.

My mindset is simple. I work to hard as is to worry about how many people can split up my money if I'm just willing to pay MORE than I should or need to.
Whether in the US or over seas, I purchase according to My own Value on the item.
I also see no need to debate health and safety as it pertains to e-liquids from any given location with those that have no more DIRECT knowledge than I.
Just remember, when reading Facts.........................According to Whom?