What's up with all the China hate?

[peterforpats]

I think most ecig hardware out there is of Chinese origin, isn't it? You either buy direct or pay the middleman. I support many local businesses and use buying power as best as I can to support causes I value.

I can't say I am 100% comfortable with using food products or juices made in China, given the issues we've had with pet food in the recent past, but I do think people have their hate in the wrong place many times. I have had as good of an experience or better with fasttech than I have with American owned and run companies, and better customer service in many cases.

yes china had a problem with pet food. how many meat and other recalls happen right here in the good ole USA? lots. as long as people are involved mistakes will happen. with food products it is especially frightening. at least if a clearo falls apart I may get upset but I won't get sick like eating tainted hamburger. I haven't noticed any major problems with all the imported vaping gear I own. we might as well get used to it because that is where a vast majority of it comes from and will continue to come from.
at least when a $20 clearo goes bad I am upset but can easily replace it. not so easy with an imported $200 stainless tank from Germany, Russia, etc. it is always is "out of stock" and takes me a LOT longer to cool down(not to mention get parts).....

 

[james chapman]

I've got a '96 Chevy Cavalier with over a quarter million miles on it with less than $600 spent on repairs and it's still going strong. I still say best deal was my '84 Toyota Celica I picked up for $500 and put a hundred thousand on in two years with six oil changes. I beat that thing like a rented mule, to be young and stupid with cheap gas again.

I had a Mazda 626 that went 239,000,I teared up the day she died. American made,a friend has a PT Cruiser with 245,000,same engine and Trans.

 

[Myrany]

Ton contribute to local economy, buying from local stores would definitely aid a lot more than buying from any online vendor based in the us. Online vendors, most of the time only have the expenses of there inventory and site maintenance. when you buy from your local store the profit is theoretically spilled down to the owner, his employees, and his land lord to whom he pays rent too.

Some of us have NO local vendor to buy from. No matter what I will be buying online. Some I get from China and some I don't. It just depends on what it is. I just bought 2 Ego Twists froma US vendor. Why? I know they are genuine Joyetech (yes I know Chinese company) and I have found the genuine stuff to just last longer for me than the fasttech egos. Other stuff like DCT tanks I get from fasttech. A plastic tank is a plastic tank and these work just fine.I really don't think I am so unusual in how I cherry pick what I get from where.

 

[Asbestos4004]

I love their Won Ton Soup....but I get it locally.

 

[Thrasher]

to all those saying most of what we use comes from china anyway. your right most of the cheap disposable crap does come from china. but not all of us use this junk. step up to higher end gear and suddenly nothing comes from china anymore. I'm glad they offer a low cost alternative for many people. but that doest mean all of us buy it.

 

[peterforpats]

Personally I have no reason to order anything vape related from china, both my mods are American made and outperform anything I've had of Chinese origins. I Diy my liquids so unless my nic base was shipped from there to the company I purchased it from, I stay with American companies as well.
Overall its been my experience that Chinese made products, while low in cost, are inferior if I'm looking to buy quality.

Also the business practices of several of the major Chinese manufacturing companies are completely morally bankrupt (i.e. cloning/copying others work).

china can make quality goods(re: russian, Russian 91%) if they want to and there is a market for them. as far as morally bankrupt, I don't think anyone can top Wall Street and American know-how. we do lead in so many things......

 

[dr g]

to all those saying most of what we use comes from china anyway. your right most of the cheap disposable crap does come from china. but not all of us use this junk. step up to higher end gear and suddenly nothing comes from china anymore. I'm glad they offer a low cost alternative for many people. but that doest mean all of us buy it.

Way to play into the point of the thread ...

(you think even high-end electronics don't have components from china?)

 

[Myrany]

to all those saying most of what we use comes from china anyway. your right most of the cheap disposable crap does come from china. but not all of us use this junk. step up to higher end gear and suddenly nothing comes from china anymore. I'm glad they offer a low cost alternative for many people. but that doest mean all of us buy it.

How nice for you that you can do that (not being sarcastic I mean it).

I on the other hand am economizing on the day to day stuff I need to keep vaping so that I can join the club and get a REO +RM2 early next year. Very tight budget and fixed income means some time spent saving up. Heck money is why I quit smoking to begin with

 

[james chapman]

Very intelligent posts so far. I thank you. Please continue.

Let me add that I respect peoples right to choose, but sometimes I see people making these choices based on what others say about something, should we not keep an open mind? Before we denounce a product, or person, or country, should we not seek to learn more about the subject and maybe even try it for ourselves so that we may come to our own informed conclusion? I had a person tell me once they would not see a movie because they heard it was "controversial", and while I respect their right to make this choice, I wonder about the logic involved.

Try a thing, see a thing, do a thing, learn more about a thing, then you will be in a more enlightened position to form an opinion about a thing, or person, or idea, or what have you.

I am a Texan and I look and prefer Texas products,a Nationalist,yes. I would prefer to see products,especially Vape products made here,in the USA. If you put the Made in USA sticker on a product,make it mean quality and longevity. I remember when Made in USA, stood for something. When I lived in Barcelona,I was shopping at El Corte Ingles. I was looking at their Old El Paso products,a man was also looking and his wife said,"solo produtos Espanol"(only Spanish products)

 

[flowerpots]

I think what bothers me is the need for posters to try to insinuate that people buying from Fasttech or other Chinese manufacturers are somehow making morally corrupt choices, purposefully choosing to rob U.S. businesses of their share of the market. In reality, most people still shop at Wal-Mart, buy clothing made from foreign labor, drive cars made from foreign parts, and if they took a serious inventory of their household items, would see the world isn't the way it was 20 years ago with American made products readily available. Most items are simply not made here anymore. With the trade agreements, the global economies have changed, and the U.S. has been struggling every since. Corporations made the choice to move operations overseas, to save on labor costs, and overhead by not having to pay employees benefits and retirement. Small business owners are left to pick up the economy and make the same hard choices we as consumers must make.

Most, if not all of us, operate on a fixed income of some sort. We have budgets and limits to our disposable incomes. While it's nice to think we should all support American businesses all the time, it's simply not a reality in many instances by choice and by necessity. In the end, we all have to feed our families and get by, if you have to save money by purchasing a few items directly from a Chinese manufacturer or distributor, then so be it. You don't owe a defense or apology to posters who try to make it seem otherwise. If you are one of the lucky ones who don't have to make those hard choices, then that's awesome, and most would likely make the same choices if they had the income to do so.

 

[irwink]

Some people have strong feelings about how Chinese products are made... or rather, who makes them and under what conditions.

If you've ever visited the larger Chinese shipping and manufacturing hubs, you would notice the labor force is largely made up of young girls between 14 and 18 years. They often work 16-19 hour shifts sometimes 90-100 days (or more) straight between any time off. Hourly wages are calculated in amounts anyone in the West would consider as unacceptable amounts --cents per hour or a few dollars/euros per day. They live in company owned dormitories with their housing deducted directly from their pay. They eat meals provided by the same companies and paid for the same way. Their personal items are obtained from commissaries owned by the same companies and also deducted directly from their pay.

While these conditions are sometimes an improvement over the conditions they might have had in their family homes, they are still quite unacceptable by pretty much any measure most could think of. --- US residents will mostly understand my reference of Tennessee Ernie Ford's song 16 Tons. "You load 16 tons and what do you get? Another day older and deeper in debt". Debt bondage is an idea the West has wholeheartedly rejected, but we do indeed support it by supporting Chinese manufacturing.

I've been there. I've seen it with my own eyes. If there was some easy button solution to fix it, that sure would be nice... I'll leave the protests and boycotts to those more emotionally invested in it than I am, but when presented with a choice I can afford that doesn't feed that system, I'll pick not supporting that system every time.

Step back to the late 19th century when the US was beginning to build its empire and emerge as a major player nation. Examine worker exploitation of the day alongside a complicit government. Examine the people enslaved or annihilated in building the nation into a power to be reckoned with.

History tends to repeat itself. When did any intelligent person think that the US was some lily white beacon of social perfection and in what period of our history?

 

[bluecat]

I myself have used fasttech. I also understand what I may receive from them and the time it may take to ship. It's a fine line of purchasing higher expensed products. If I can find a company that produces an inexpensive mod that is pure USA, I am there. I will not pay 300 bucks just to support a business when I myself am busy supporting a family myself. I do not see the value in it.

Frankly, as some may have said, I find nothing wrong with cutting out the middleman costs. If I can do all the 'legwork' to find the same produst from the source 'chinese' why should I support the costs of shipping and overhead from a 200 percent or whatever markup? No matter what business you are in, it's just crazy. To add who's to say the money I am savingthen doesn't go back for a different American product?

Buy low sell high. Applies to all Americans or anyone in the world.

I am not knocking my own country's products. I just don't see how saving money can be unamerican.

I love baseball and apple pie too!

 

[ScottP]

"Components, American components, Russian components. All made in Taiwan!" - Lev Andropov from the movie "Armageddon"

I would wager that yes some of the components in even the mighty Provari are made in china. Maybe only the screen and the MOSFETs but still some of it.

 

[dhomes]

Stainless steel, brass and silver is the same in the USA, China or brazil

Only thing you can get wrong are tolerances (like a tobeco oddy clone) but then come the rainbow heaven's ithaka clone and his it out of the park

the 'high end stuff' has more to do with economics of scale and scarcity than the actual value / cost of what you are getting

 

[NiNi]

I'd love to say I enjoy all the Support American Business bla bla bla I keep reading. Fact is most will jump from one merchant to another just to save a few bucks. So much for customer loyalty.

My mindset is simple. I work to hard as is to worry about how many people can split up my money if I'm just willing to pay MORE than I should or need to.
Whether in the US or over seas, I purchase according to My own Value on the item.
I also see no need to debate health and safety as it pertains to e-liquids from any given location with those that have no more DIRECT knowledge than I.
Just remember, when reading Facts.........................According to Whom?

My customer loyalty depends on:
Service
Quality
Shipping
Quick response with Q & A

Coming out of a recession, I do look for bargains, but it comes down to basically 3 vendors. If they are unable to provide a specific thing (out of stock, don't carry. whatever) I'll get that item somewhere else. Case in point: Glass replacement tubes for the PT2. 1 vendor didn't carry and 2 were out of stock and have been for a while.
Ejuice is an entirely different animal. I'm still checking out different companies. 2 vendors I was loyal to for 8 months and maybe I just might go back to them if I don't find something "different or more pleasing" for me. "Taste is subjective, etc."

 

[bosun]

In the start of this thread, some one asked about U.S. made nic juice. Just received the below from myfreedomsmokes.com. I've had good luck in dealing with the company, so I presume it is not just advertising hype. It does mention made in an FDA inspected facility:


Introducing NicSelect Vaping-Grade Nicotine
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Our famous Unflavored Nicotine "Smoke Juice" E-Liquid is made with using NicSelect
Vaping-Grade Nicotine. NicSelect Vaping-Grade Nicotine is the highest quality nicotine
on the market and is made specifically for vaping in the only FDA inspected and
approved nicotine production facility & laboratory in the world. Buy with confidence
knowing that you are getting the very best nicotine available and that it is always
distilled from actual tobacco leaves and stems and not synthetically produced.

 

[Ref Minor]

In the start of this thread, some one asked about U.S. made nic juice. Just received the below from myfreedomsmokes.com. I've had good luck in dealing with the company, so I presume it is not just advertising hype. It does mention made in an FDA inspected facility:


Introducing NicSelect Vaping-Grade Nicotine
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Our famous Unflavored Nicotine "Smoke Juice" E-Liquid is made with using NicSelect
Vaping-Grade Nicotine. NicSelect Vaping-Grade Nicotine is the highest quality nicotine
on the market and is made specifically for vaping in the only FDA inspected and
approved nicotine production facility & laboratory in the world. Buy with confidence
knowing that you are getting the very best nicotine available and that it is always
distilled from actual tobacco leaves and stems and not synthetically produced.

It doesn't state this inspection took place in the US.

 

[electrogeek13]

I personally like fasttech and many of their Chinese products they offer. I also hate some of them. This is my experience with china products from fasttech, i am not trying to bash china or their goods this is just my honest to god true experience so far.

The GOOD.
iTaste SVD from FT ROCKS!
Nitecore Charger from FT ROCKS!
Drip tips from FT ROCK!
Phoenix V5 RDA from FT IS GOOD!

The BAD
generic el cheapo CE4 clearomizer from FT, DOA HORRIBLE
1.0ml aluminium mini RDA from FT, Crappy O rings, shorts out a lot, REALLY BAD
Generic T3S coils, all of them leak and one was 6.7ohm from the package NO GOOD. However with these coils if you remove the flavor wicks and replace them with 2mm silica they stop leaking, so i still buy to save myself some cash. I have also had a box of genuine kanger coils with one DOA from the box too (just to be fair)
eGo twist batteries, had 2 of them die out within 3 days of use. enough said.

You can view my thread here as to my findings on FT china juices and decide for yourself if you want to buy them. Personally i will be staying away from them Except for the genuine orange top hangsen and Liqua brands. Keep in mind, nic content aside all juices tasted as advertised.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...lar-fasttech-china-juices-done-titration.html

My experience is that anything that is name brand but manufactured in china is still awesome, it's the clones and complete knock off's you have to worry about..

Thanks

 

[wv2win]

I can completely understand a person wanting to support their local economy or state or national economy. Whether it can be realistically done today is a different story. But I don't have a problem with those who prefer to try and support their local business community if possible. I do have a problem with ignorance and prejudice. Those who bring up the "safety" red-herring are in the latter category. When it comes to vaping (and that is all we are talking about here), we all know that the vast majority of vaping supplies and eliquid come from China. Considering that vaping has grown exponentially in the US in the last 6 years with millions now vaping and there has not been one report of any serious health issues, there is no legitimate reason to bring safety into the equation. And as another poster alluded to, when it comes to illness and deaths from consumables in the US in the last 30+ years, the business that caused most of those illness and deaths were US businesses.

If the topic was solely about innovation and craftsmanship, my observation leads me directly to the US (and some western European countries). But that comes at a higher price, as it should, IMO.

 

[ScottP]

It doesn't state this inspection took place in the US.

Even so that still says a lot about the facility.