This sounds like the stream-of-consciousness stuff I fall asleep to at night lately. God help me....
When is the FDA going to do their big study?
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This sounds like the stream-of-consciousness stuff I fall asleep to at night lately. God help me....
not quite a parallel, though pretty close. the EPA has conformed to pressure by the actual people they're supposed to protect and have actually taken on tasks to clean up and protect the environment in some blatantly destroyed, highly populated areas.
river road in croydon pennsylvania would be one perfect example.
but mostly they're a shill for big business and you'll see an EPA official on any construction site on big pharma property. you know... behind the highly regulated, closed gate.
Very well said indeed!
Just take a look across that big pond.. to the EU.. where the European Parliament voted on 8 October 2013 to keep e-cigs legal.
Now, the EU Presidency does not like that. EU Presidency is right now a small country of 3.5 million inhabitants (!), Lithuania, who has received investment of 143 million USD since 1993 from - - Philip Morris.
Oh yes, Lithuania is fighting the e-cig all the way. As we speak.
And the EU vapers are fighting back.
(- supported by some very nice people from the US and Canada (thank you!
- )Fighting hard.
Fighting literally for our lives.
And guess who will be watching that dirty business of Big tobacco money against the votes of the European Parliament, the elected representatives of the people, and against the people themselves, our health, our freedom, our lives.
Yeah... don't think for one moment that the FDA is not watching closely.
Don't think for one moment that the FDA is closer to the people than the corrupt un-elected beaurocrats of the EU Commission and the Philip-Morris Amigos of the Lithuania EU Presidency.
Before putting trust in any government agency - take a good look at who fills their pockets. And no, I do not mean their salaries. THAT comes from tax money. I mean who fills their DEEP pockets....
.....
addition:
In case anybody in this thread considers challenging my information about Lithuania and Philip Morris... girl scout motto: be prepared
1.
http://www.investlithuania.com/files/files/PDF/philip_morris_in_lithuania.pdf
2.
Lithuania hopes to get payments for seized smuggled Philip Morris cigarettes | en.15min.lt
3.
what a coincidence! New proposal for the ONLY e-cigs that shall remain legal in the EU, if the EU Commission and EU Presidency could get their way - against the votes of the elected representatives of the people:
Marlboro maker Altria jumping into e-cigarettes
4.
Who is Altria?
......
Never trust any government organization. Until you know just WHO puts money into their deep pockets.
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So basically, its going to take 50 years worth of vaping before we find out what, if anything, vaping does to the human body. Sort of like with cigarettes. Its pretty hard to hide what cigarettes do to a pair of lungs. They couldn't even hide it in the early days of medicine. They turn black. But with vaping, something tells me that the ills we be much less pronounced. Something that shows up that could be due to a number of causes, but in truth is due to vaping.
Like the oxidization of the stainless steel coil wire being bad for you. If I had to hazard a guess, my guess would be that there are many different levels of toxicity on the market right now. When it comes to vaping. Simply because its vastly unregulated. I'd bet that there is a right way, and a wrong way, to produce a vaping machine. One does little to no damage over a lifetime, while others will do some type of damage. I mean think about it. How much of this stuff comes from china? We all know how much the Chinese care about public health. They don't. How many of these companies check to see EXACTLY what effect their product has on the human body? That would cost money! Better just to shove that product out there and base everything on the claim that it can't be as bad as smoking!
All that said, I'm an avid vaper and I love to vape. I just wish there was more info out there. All available info does suggest that yes, its indeed far better for you than smoking. However, I still don't want a weird liver tumor in 30 years because the VG or PG or molecules from the steel coil wire finally make their way to some special lining on some organ somewhere, that only a doctor can identify. You get the idea.
Like the oxidization of the stainless steel coil wire being bad for you. If I had to hazard a guess, my guess would be that there are many different levels of toxicity on the market right now. When it comes to vaping. Simply because its vastly unregulated. I'd bet that there is a right way, and a wrong way, to produce a vaping machine. One does little to no damage over a lifetime, while others will do some type of damage. I mean think about it. How much of this stuff comes from china? We all know how much the Chinese care about public health. They don't. How many of these companies check to see EXACTLY what effect their product has on the human body? That would cost money! Better just to shove that product out there and base everything on the claim that it can't be as bad as smoking!
All that said, I'm an avid vaper and I love to vape. I just wish there was more info out there. All available info does suggest that yes, its indeed far better for you than smoking. However, I still don't want a weird liver tumor in 30 years because the VG or PG or molecules from the steel coil wire finally make their way to some special lining on some organ somewhere, that only a doctor can identify. You get the idea.
If just a portion of the millions (billions?) being spent by all the assorted agencies, "public health" organizations, and universities to badmouth ecigs and prevent their spread were instead spent on studying ecigs and their health costs and benefits, responsibly and objectively, we'd probably already have a lot of the information you're looking for.
The coils used in vaping are not stainless steel, well not any that I have heard of. The 2 main wire types are Kanthal and Nicrome. Kanthal is iron-chromium-aluminum alloy, Nicrome is a Nickle and chromium alloy. They are used because of the high resistance to heat and oxidation. The only issue I have ever seen with the coil would be while dryburning. It could be possible to produce some unwanted gases(you would still have to breath them in and excessively dryburn your coil).
I am no expert, to take anything I say with a grain of salt. We are all making a choice to vape because we believe that it is safer then cigarettes and we still want the nicotine or just the habit of vaping. Now that I have quit smoking and moved to vaping, the next change for my health would be to stop drinking pop. To me that is more harmful then my vaping. Everyone has to make decisions based on their own health. It would be nice if when any agency finally releases some info on the findings of vaping if they compared it to other well known legal substances. Problem is fear mongering gets better ratings. My personal biggest problem with vaping is the perceived 2nd hand vapor. I don't want to affect another person's health. From everything that I have read it is safe, but it is not just water vapor. The fear mongering tactics always play to the minuet amount of certain chemicals. Would be nice if when they say the vapor contains X ingredient then say that is the same as eating a tomato for instance. Instead of trying to scare people with chemicals names and toxins. Everything is toxic it seems, you just have to limit your exposure to a safe amount. The more I read about e-cig and policy the sicker I get about all governments and agencies. It is obvious politics and money play a bigger role in decisions then health and welfare of the population. If one person had an e-cig related death it would be all over the news. I was shocked to find out how many people have died from legal drugs like ......, yet it is still on the market for any one to get easily. Yet that is there choice. I just want to be able to have my choice to vape the way I like.
I am no expert, to take anything I say with a grain of salt. We are all making a choice to vape because we believe that it is safer then cigarettes and we still want the nicotine or just the habit of vaping. Now that I have quit smoking and moved to vaping, the next change for my health would be to stop drinking pop. To me that is more harmful then my vaping. Everyone has to make decisions based on their own health. It would be nice if when any agency finally releases some info on the findings of vaping if they compared it to other well known legal substances. Problem is fear mongering gets better ratings. My personal biggest problem with vaping is the perceived 2nd hand vapor. I don't want to affect another person's health. From everything that I have read it is safe, but it is not just water vapor. The fear mongering tactics always play to the minuet amount of certain chemicals. Would be nice if when they say the vapor contains X ingredient then say that is the same as eating a tomato for instance. Instead of trying to scare people with chemicals names and toxins. Everything is toxic it seems, you just have to limit your exposure to a safe amount. The more I read about e-cig and policy the sicker I get about all governments and agencies. It is obvious politics and money play a bigger role in decisions then health and welfare of the population. If one person had an e-cig related death it would be all over the news. I was shocked to find out how many people have died from legal drugs like ......, yet it is still on the market for any one to get easily. Yet that is there choice. I just want to be able to have my choice to vape the way I like.
All they will do is tax the juice. We will pay more, and that will be about it.
Mundy made a SS coil a couple days ago.
People have been breathing emissions from red hot nichrome/kanthal stove eyes, toasters, central heat, ovens, hair dryers, etc. for decades. Since they aren't dropping like flies it isn't likely immediately dangerous to life and health. Vaper's coil should never reach red hot temperature under normal vaping conditions.
They really have no need for any studies. Their whole plan is to regulate to oblivion first and ask questions later. The deeming regulations have just been handed back to the FDA for revisions/review and should be made public shortly (around the week of X-mas I would guess as that way people will be too busy with all the holiday stuff to even pay attention to it). From there it will be a review period and then bam! It's law and at that point why would anyone really care about studies?
The Antz will be happy because they won another victory, Big Pharma will be happy because they can keep selling snake oil - er, patches and gums and Big Tobacco will have another item that pretty much only they would be able to afford to sell (and keeping their current userbase and profits).
That's their plan, but there is one problem they are finding hard to get past - Us.
What we need to do is keep making people aware. We need to keep speaking up and being a united community.
Yes.
And if a vaper has to keep changing atomisers once a week, you want to make those atomisers cheap as possible; so it would be no surpise if you have a couple cheap silicone rings in the thing which give off some toxic fumes which happen to add to the thoat hit that alot of people like. But most people wouldnt notice it anyway because its a small amount compared to the nicotine for most people.
A lesser concern I think would be the plastic; like the plastic tanks; in fact I have one right now that has had some liquid sitting in it for serveral weeks; I wonder how much plastic has seeped into that liquid. I doubt it matters much once, but vaping habitually out of plastic , I don't trust it.
And those issues are not really vaping issues at all; those issues are really quality issues of the hardware. To assess the long term effects of 'vaping' one would actually need to have a good setup in the first place.
There is more toxicity vaped from the hardware than from the eliquid. In fact for example, that is what a dry hit is.
They will end up taxing the nicotine.
The result of that will be only high strength nicotine liquids will get sold and you dilute it before use.
What are they gonna do, suddenly start taxing glycerin all of a sudden?
What the taxers need to get straight in their heads is their high taxes on tobacco had the beneficial effect of building the business case for the ecig industry and finally get smokers a much less hazzardous alternative. They should recognise the ecig industry as their tax incentivised success.
Considering that they have already tried to ban vaping nationwide and who Obama appointed to head the FDA, your scenario is highly unlikely. It would be good news if that is all they did, but little chance that will be their plan.
Granted most people aren't like me, but the news media are all such liars and sensationalists that I trust them as much as I trust a politician. Journalistic integrity in America is dead. I just wish all those big name media outlets would die with it. Never to be seen or heard from again. As for the government, they're plain too stupid to make the right decision. They've proven that over and over. The corruption and greed reaches too far and wide in the government, and they'll do what's best for them, every time. That's why I'm going to learn how to make my own eJuice, and I would suggest that others do as well. And get a few mech mods and rebuildable attys.
The government has numerous problems with Vaping, whether they know all of them yet, or not. Like it or not we've got a population problem in the world, and Cigarettes were helping with that. Just throw that onto the pile. That's one you'll never hear 'em talk about, though.
So, they will have to undo their ruling on it being a tobacco product? It's blanketed in, for vaping to go away in the US, they will have to ban cigarettes, dip, cigars, pipe tobacco, rolling tobacco, snus, and so on.
For some of us who live nowhere near a brick and mortar simply making internet sales illegal will be nearly as effective as a ban. They don't have to outright ban it to knock us back to the cigalike level or make getting supplies nearly impossible.
The ecig industry could certainly "self regulate" and start providing more studies and laboratory testing on their juices, etc. to submit to the FDA.
With projected profits and sales to reach well over $1 billion in 2014, it is hard to keep pretending that there is no money being made here, when I hear vendors talking about "tens of thousands of orders".
Just sayin......
Well then let's beat them inside of those 5 years. The ecig companies can certainly band together, and also hire their own lobbyists, right? And pool some $$$ and resources together. Why isn't this happening? Seems like everyone is moving to new buildings, opening new and multiple locations, etc. but there seems to be no money to perform tests of eliquids, etc. to show there is no formaldehyde, antifreeze, heavy metals, etc.????
I agree, and also agree that it will be YEARS before anything like ecigs or liquid being outright banned or made illegal and I don't think that will happen anyway.
So can somebody please give me a list, out of the thousands of ejuice makers out there, of the ones that can provide me with a simple lab analysis of what is in the product I am vaping? Seems like this is not that impossible, or even prohibitively expensive, esp. if they banded together to finance it.
Can they also finance a few studies?
Sorry but this really is a legitimate question I've had for a while now. How can i make an EDUCATED decision about the products i buy if nobody will provide me with information about it?
I don't use moisturizers that contain mineral oil, and that isn't a problem because it's ON THE LABEL if it's in my product. I don't use shampoos with sulfates, and I know that from reading the labels.
Thankfully, the government was instrumental in labelling my food and cosmetic products. I know you all hate them, but I feel my interests are served on a number of levels by labelling.
I agree. This is the sort of thing the industry needs to do to raise standards.
I have a Hangsen bottle that has a good label on it. Normal
keep out of reach of children;
toxic if swallowed. more toxic in contact with skin
11 mg
ingredients: ......
then there's another one which just says
e-Liquid
Tobacco MED
It does have some other labelling rather irrelevant
and another one with even less labelling.
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