Where have all the 50/50's gone?

[windxrunner]

Lately, it seems like every new liquid to come out is Max VG. That's great if you're not a fan of throat hit and you're into volume vaping. But what about people like me? I'm more of a mouth to lung vaper, I use a lot of mesh in genesis atties, some cotton tanks, too. I like TH! Any recommendations for 50/50 liquids? I like more "premium", complex flavors,,,just never been a fan of cheap, one-note flavors. Thanks!

 

[SomeTexan]

You make an excellent point. I'm sure there are many more like you. Just one more demographic in the overall world of vapers. I have to remember there are people who sub ohm who aren't cloud chasers and those who don't tolerate PG. I'm not one of them though. I crave throat hit and bold flavors. I personally hate the term "tootle puffer" and I just used it here for the first time in my previous post. That just shows you how much vaping has changed. I'd rather refer to it as classic vaping or old school, or.... Vaping. Vape on.

Why do people care about labels though? We are all vapers, be cool with each other and show a little respect for those that vape differently. There are quite a few like us that see it like that, it's just that some people have to have their little groups within a group I guess.

I got called a tootle puffer at the vape shop today by a purple haired kid. It would seem that the only reason for it was because I asked him not to blow clouds directly in my face. He called me old too, is 33 really old to late teens now? he did shut up when he saw my Snow Wolf and Freakshow. I guess it made him and his SubBox feel inadequate...

 

[thetrucker]

I just loved your title------reminds me of a 60s song --------"Where Have All The Flowers Gone"

 

[misterholidayhouse]

I think there is absolutely no doubt that the vast majority of vapers are ones using basic gear. We vape for effect first, taste second, and status last.
As well put above, most vapers have never seen forums or videos about it and look at the cloud chasing in public as a negative.
But Yes, we are being left behind. I have recently found a juice vendor who has some great quality, complex and unique flavors, etc. but they are max VG and I have to WORK like heck to get my Nautilus to get the flavor through to me at half the level that a casual puff of Halo or Five Pawns, for example, would deliver. Sucks, because this would be some really fantastic juice if it wasn't thicker than gear lube..
I also agree there is no question about the profitability of high VG, low nic, and low flavor juice that people are using 30ml or more of a day. I can't imagine having to buy that much juice personally. Holy cow. Is it really worth it?
All that said, I really think it will come full circle. (Or at least find a happy medium) I have recently contacted the vendor I mentioned above (well known and currently very hyped on ECF) about offering their popular max VG flavors in an "old school" 50/50 version and giving them all the reasons we are stating in this thread. I even went as far as to offer to pay more as it's obvious us tootle puffers don't vape 30ml a day and the manufacturer has to have some incentive. We actually had a couple good exchanges on the subject. I doubt they are going to change a winning game, in the short term anyway, but they did admit they are hearing the exact same request from many others and are aware of the resurgence in demand for a more balanced blend. I guess we'll see. They let me know something was in the mail this morning. I have no idea what it is.
Write your vendors folks. At least some of them might listen.

 

[Jeffro2700]

It's definitely disappointing when you hear about a new juice or juice company, then you find out it's only max vg or 75-80% vg with no other options. I normally vape 75pg/25vg if that's an option. I'm actually allowed to vape at my desk at work and I don't need excess vapor ruining that great benefit. I also stealth vape pretty much anywhere I go. I've bought 75vg/25pg and it is fine, but I'll only vape that at home because the vapor production is too obnoxious for social situations.

 

[drysprocket]

You're not alone Windxrunner. I had to go out of my way to find a whole new batch of higher VG juices just to use on my Triton coils. Some are nice, but I don't enjoy them nearly as much as so many good 50/50's. It seems like everything is being made for cloud chasers in mind...and it's a vicious cycle. Juices are being catered for it, now many tanks/coils are too. It feels like we're being left in the dust.

I always assumed that roughly half of people did sub ohm, and the other half mouth to lung; but I wonder if we're now very much in the minority. Maybe we don't spend enough money on new stuff? I dunno. Seems like this has shifted too far this last year.

I also think there is savvy business at work here- High VG juices are gone through a lot faster than 50/50. If I was a company trying to squeeze every dime out of people, I'd probably focus on making juices that people have to buy more of. I think that this may be part of the reason in some cases.

 

[windxrunner]

You're not alone Windxrunner. I had to go out of my way to find a whole new batch of higher VG juices just to use on my Triton coils. Some are nice, but I don't enjoy them nearly as much as so many good 50/50's. It seems like everything is being made for cloud chasers in mind...and it's a vicious cycle. Juices are being catered for it, now many tanks/coils are too. It feels like we're being left in the dust.

I always assumed that roughly half of people did sub ohm, and the other half mouth to lung; but I wonder if we're now very much in the minority. Maybe we don't spend enough money on new stuff? I dunno. Seems like this has shifted too far this last year.

I also think there is savvy business at work here- High VG juices are gone through a lot faster than 50/50. If I was a company trying to squeeze every dime out of people, I'd probably focus on making juices that people have to buy more of. I think that this may be part of the reason in some cases.

I actually think that mouth to lung vapers make up a higher percentage of all vapers,,,it's because the majority of vapers don't even know what ECF is, have never watched a YouTube vaping video, they just use CE4's, eGo's, eVod's, Nautilus Mini's, iSticks etc,,,a lot of vapers are 30yo and up,,,but most of the younger vapers tend to think clouds are cool, and younger vapers tend to go for that whole volume vaping mentality. When it comes to who spends the most money, it's definitely the hobbiest people, and while there are still a lot of mouth-to-lung hobbiest vapers, we're in the minority of hobbiests. That make sense? So, like you said, it has a lot to do with that, and I'm sure a desire to sell more juice plays heavily into all this, as well.

I was just on Mt. Baker Vapor and they had 5 levels of mix.

Yeah, I'm aware that MBV offers many different PG/VG ratios, but I just find pretty much every liquid from them to be unvapable. I'm too used to nice, complex liquids that when I try to vape cheap stuff it just tastes like crap.

 

[windxrunner]

There are other reasons then "clouds" to have so-called high or "max" VG (I often use 100%).

Some of us don't like the 'throat hit' of PG at all. Then outside of some models seemingly being designed for "max PG" (very small juice holes/channels), its true that many modern tanks/atty's work better with thicker juice.

Last but not least, try putting 1oz of pure PG in one paper 'dixie cup' and in another put 1oz of pure VG and poke equal size holes in each. I have less problems with leaking and flooding with VG than with PG blends.

There are several ECF vendors that sell 'base juice' in bulk - at whatever ratio you want and even a few that sell flavored juice in bulk where you pick the ratio and nicotine level. Granted these are not popular 'name brand' flavors but it allows you to get the ratios+levels you want without having to do the work yourself at a enormous savings.

Given the margin on juice and other expendables its not difficult to see the motivation behind pushing higher power mods, larger and lower ohm setups which consume much more juice.

Then again, I find having something to exhale more satisfying then how much of a harsh/raspy throat hit any day of the week.

I see your point, but for me, and apparently a lot of other people, it's not satisfying in the slightest to have no throat hit. I could vape down an entire tank's worth of liquid, be shaky from the nicotine and still not feel fully satisfied if every drag I took felt like inhaling warm air. I crave that throat hit. Personally, I don't like having a harsh, raspy throat either, but I don't ever get that from vaping MTL. I just get a nice, pleasant throat hit. To each their own, though! I think it's wonderful that people like to vape so differently, it keeps things interesting and speaks to how diverse we are. I love that so many people from different walks of life are brought together because they were tired of smoking. I just don't like being left in the dust. I often feel like a large section of vapers aren't seeing much innovation for their style of vaping. Enjoy!

 

[thetrucker]

Wish I could say that was intentional! It just seemed appropriate.

There does seem to be a trend to max vg-----as all that is important anymore is a dripper that can make "BIG"---clouds----people are having trouble with their

tanks getting dry hits as this new thick juice does not wick as well as 50/50 does.........

 

[sofarsogood]

Liquids with more than 6mg nic are less represented in my local vape shop (which I rarely visit because everything costs at least twice what it should and there isn't much inventory that interests me). The shop carries juice lines that don't offer higher than 6mg. It seems the cloud chasers are so dominant that the shop is primarily focused on them and generally neglects everybody else. Apparently cloud chasers tend to be big spenders.

 

[windxrunner]

It's a shame really. I can get by with 5ml or less a day, but I know people who will down a 30ml bottle and then some every day just blowing clouds. I get that they think it's fun and all, but I can't help wondering when and why it transitioned from pleasure and harm reduction to cloud blowing. I mean, it's a bit silly right? Who can inhale/exhale the best? Anyway, that's a topic for another time.

They produce what sells better is all. My guess would be your best bet would find a company that makes juice to order like an ITC vapes or something that can custom make it for you. The premium made ready to go ones will for the most part will be high VG it seems.

I have tried a few companies like this, but IMO they tend to taste a bit on the cheap side. I've just kind of adjusted to make Charlie noble juices work in my gennies, but I've got certain atomizers that the thicker liquids just won't work with, like some of my Hellfire and Doc Dave stuff. They've got approx. 2ml wick holes, and the thick VG stuff just refuses to flow /:

I've tried 5 pawns, it's good but it's too damn expensive. I think Boilermaker might be 50/50, maybe I'll give them a try.

 

[roxynoodle]

Ahlusion does. Many of Nicoticket's are as well.

 

[Liskrig]

Apparently cloud chasers tend to be big spenders.

As a former cloud chaser, I can say that I was. Buying 2 bottles of 30ml juice at 3mg, at $18.99+ EACH. I love amusing myself by blowing a huge cloud in my house, I learned (with the help of some lovely people here on ECF) that I really much prefer a Nautilus Mini, and reserve the clouds as I would a nice Cohiba cigar... More as a treat now

As for the OP... I would check out Giant Vapes (link in my sig)... They list the PG/VG on all the juice they sell, or go for a custom company where you can customize them

 

[windxrunner]

Btw, I'm a fan of tobacco flavors, too. Sometimes I like just straight tobacco, but I love flavors that have a bit of tobacco in the background to add complexity. I love Sollers Pointe, Pistachio RY4, Tripoli and Smoked Custard by Charlie Noble, but sometimes they don't wick so well in a genny.

 

[windxrunner]

I just loved your title------reminds me of a 60s song --------"Where Have All The Flowers Gone"

Wish I could say that was intentional! It just seemed appropriate.

 

[rob m]

They produce what sells better is all. My guess would be your best bet would find a company that makes juice to order like an ITC vapes or something that can custom make it for you. The premium made ready to go ones will for the most part will be high VG it seems.

 

[kkiet]

With sub ohming now the trend nic levels have dropped, people can get by with less, and more people want clouds hence more vg.

 

[stevegmu]

They have gone to the clouds... I like high PG, so Halo is pretty much the only vendor which meets my needs...

 

[SomeTexan]

It's simple, they make what sells.

I can't stand high pg juice. Much over 25-30% and it is like trying to smoke the filter from a cigarette. I end up coughing and wheezing worse than when I smoked and constantly think I burnt cotton or something. I'm not a cloud chaser, never wanted to be a part of a cloud comp. But, I couldn't quit cigs with tootle puffer gear. When I went sub ohm with an open draw, I was able to kick the cigs. And that's the reason I vape, to quit smoking.

I do sub ohm and open draw, so I'm not a tootle puffer, but I could care less about a clouds and looking "cool" so what does that make me?

 

[misterholidayhouse]

I do sub ohm and open draw, so I'm not a tootle puffer, but I could care less about a clouds and looking "cool" so what does that make me?

You make an excellent point. I'm sure there are many more like you. Just one more demographic in the overall world of vapers. I have to remember there are people who sub ohm who aren't cloud chasers and those who don't tolerate PG. I'm not one of them though. I crave throat hit and bold flavors. I personally hate the term "tootle puffer" and I just used it here for the first time in my previous post. That just shows you how much vaping has changed. I'd rather refer to it as classic vaping or old school, or.... Vaping. Vape on.