Where is your juice REALLY comming from?

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Stownz

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I wish we could find an active way to self-police this cottage industry better, in order to save it. I don't think anyone means to be doing whack-a-ding stuff (or I could be wrong.)
I just hate being a cop :(

We can. If you disagree with the way certain manufacturers are doing things, don't buy them and don't sit idly by while others propogate the failures of these companies. Sure we don't want to be labled Trolls, nor do we want our fellow vaping friends to be taken advantage of from lack of information. "Did you know the guy is extracting his tobbacco flavor in his backyard by soaking leaves in a kiddie pull full of chems?" <--- is just as much of helpful advice as "Did you know an Ego battery lasts 3 times as long as your current little 510?"
 

cozzicon

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Just some rambling on the subject:

I've actually spent some time in a mixing facility. So I've been on the other side of the curtain.

In general, companies that extract nicotine are difficult to find. It's not something you want to do yourself. In pure form it is obviously deadly. And can be hazardous at levels above 36mg per ml for nicotine addicts. Lower levels are hazardous for *anybody* depending on their particular constitution. I am un aware of a juice company that uses over 100mg per ml as a mixing base.

Generally speaking, responsible vendors are sourcing their nicotine from US AND overseas vendors. A purchase of nicotine in appropriate suspension to make e-juice can be made from any number of companies.

Here's a list of *some* of the companies that vend nicotine *outside* the e-cig industry.

Nicotine (54-11-5) Suppliers Worldwide

Regarding extraction of nicotine. Brown and Williamson did it, and sold it on a business to business basis (Before being bought out in 2004). I'm fairly sure by inference that other American tobacco companies do it- it is a way to get rid of unusable tobacco/unusable parts of the tobacco plant. (Note: Some of this activity may be contracted overseas- NOT just Asia.)

Nicotine extraction is sometimes done on an order by order basis based on the needs of downstream resellers/labs/processors. In other words, the company doing the extraction resells to another company that reprocesses it for other uses, on an "as needed basis". The downstream company then processes it for it's specific use.

What most people don't realize is that the value of waste tobacco produced by tobacco companies. Nicotine extracted from it is used in NRT products, pesticides, and other forms of industry and chemical production. So there is actually quite a bit of it on the market- but it is only sold business to business. Which makes finding it on the Internet or finding a processor difficult.

So is the nicotine produced in the USA? Yes. And also in other places.

The idea behind "sourced or made in the USA" has two properties to it:

1. Supposed better purity.

2. Supporting US vendors.

I'm not sure getting foreign nicotine (say from China) has a disadvantage since those companies will disclose purity just like the US companies. But that is just my take on it- everyone has an opinion.

But yes, nicotine can be sourced in the USA on an industrial basis. But unless you ask to see the paper trail- you cannot verify it.

And sadly- this is also true. You cannot source anything 100% American in most markets given the global nature of this world.

PG/VG/ and Nicotine all have sources in the US. And flavorings can contain things from all over the world.

However, and I'll not name vendors regarding this (as a moderator, it's bad form):

I know of two vendors that have bumped nicotine back to the manufacturer for quality issues recently, and one of them is completely out of Nicotine due to this. (So a commitment to quality is costing that vendor money)

So whether it is USA made or not, the quality aspect is still going to depend on the ethics of the juice maker/vaping supplier. (My understanding is that there is a difference between "Pharmaceutical grade" and what would be used in "Pesticide".)

Unless there is a standard in place for "what's safe to vape" the country of origin has little bearing in my mind.

In closing:

The best anyone can hope for is "assembled in the USA". Even if the nicotine/PG/VG were sourced in the USA- there is no way in my mind to verify the sourcing of the ingredients used in flavorings. For instance, Flavourart is an Italian company. The ingredients for their flavors might actually be sourced in whole or in part from the USA- or the Ukraine.
 

Frick

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This thread is very interesting, and discussions like this are very necessary for the long-term survival of the vaping community.


I know everyone on vaping forums hates the FDA for attempted bannings and seizures, but I sure wish there were a regulatory body inspecting the juice we vape for purity and quality. Everything from our food, our pharmaceuticals, even the lowly aspirin we pop when we have a headache are subjected to rigorous regulation and inspection. I know that vaping is a bit "underground" as far as juice vendors are concerned, but I imagine in 10-20 years, that will absolutely not be the case. There's just not enough public awareness of the fact that a lot of people are quitting cigarettes using these products at the moment; that will certainly change with time.

In the meantime, it's up to vapers to regulate themselves. But how? Do we trust a manufacturer that says "USA-made of USP-grade ingredients"? This thread seems to suggest otherwise. But who to trust? The guy or gal macerating his own tobacco for flavor and/or nicotine? A Chinese supplier who has shown us a video of a very clean lab? Let's not forget that the Chinese have shipped toys with lead in the paint, and poisoned their own population's infants with tainted formula. Do we trust a company who has a lab in the US, and "employs chemists"? All of these are claims made by varying suppliers.

In short, how do we regulate our choices in e-juice? We're the only ones that currently can, but the choices aren't clear at the moment.
 

TeeFour

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Where is most tobacco grown? I would imagine there is your source for the most part. Wether we (USA) send out our tobacco leaves for processing is an unknown I guess.

The world's largest grower of tobacco is China, not the US. Although I'm not sure if that is what you were implying.
And actually, China grows pretty damn good tobacco at that. Anyone else ever had a Chung Hwa analog? They're awesome. Of course I still prefer my PV 100X over any analog :p
 

markfm

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Organic grape flavoring:
grapes.jpg
 

mwa102464

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I still have seen all sorts of post on this thread and some even saying they have been in a mixing lab and giving a list of Nic suppliers which isnt such a good list and not worthy of Nic made and retailed here in the USA (nothing against the post). I also still have not seen one post of a USA MADE NIC SUPPLIER who is extracting there own Nic here in the USA & selling it. So far there is only 1 place I have found that supplies 99.9 Nic and some that supply 99.5 and up Nic and all of them have been in China. I'm actually looking for someone to make a post here in this thread that shows me a USA company that extracts and sells a Nic that is available for the vaping world to mix our liquids, not for exterminating or any other grade of Nic for other uses but only for mixing vaping liquids one that can be used to make our juice, please, no more BS post just some that show if you have a USA Company that, grows,extracts, and makes and retails Nic here in the USA, THX,,,,,,,My thoughts are still the same, there isnt one, because no one can list one. I have spoken to so many people on this subject and everyone of the buyers and retailers I have spoken to in the field of selling just Nic has told me there Nic is coming from China.!!! Now what some companies do with it once it gets here is a whole another thing ! Again ONLY post if you have a USA company that Grows, Extracts, and retails Nic for our use. or Post of course if you have something on topic ! But I think the thread is needed for exactly what it is titled here, where is our juice (Nic) coming from ? I'm not trying to be rude in any way but only trying to find out the truth about our Nic and it's origin of origination ?:) I hope the OP agrees since this was his question.
 

Sdh

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I think it was announced from fsusa who stated in a thread they are going to test the juice. I have not heard a peep since it was announced. Did this ever happen?

I do think we have to ask questions/research our vendors. I still have not seen any US manufacturers of nicotine. However I don't have a problem as long as it is disclosed.
 

VanderVape

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I think it was announced from fsusa who stated in a thread they are going to test the juice. I have not heard a peep since it was announced. Did this ever happen?

I do think we have to ask questions/research our vendors. I still have not seen any US manufacturers of nicotine. However I don't have a problem as long as it is disclosed.

Nope it never happened.
 

juicefreak

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Most of the time "USA MADE" means nothing more than "mixed here in the United States".

not only that, but when i think of USA made juices, i think of a bathtub, lorann's and nose pickers ;)

give me a china lab any day of the week lol. The fewer hands it passes through the more pure IMO.
 
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mwa102464

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not only that, but when i think of USA made juices, i think of a bathtub, lorann's and nose pickers ;)

give me a china lab any day of the week lol. The fewer hands it passes through the more pure IMO.

I hear what your saying Juicefreak, However you would be very surprised if you saw some of the supposed labs in china that this juice is made in, if you think there all adults in white lab jackets and everything is clean as a whistle you are mistaken my friend, I actually would really like to see this in an all USA lab and like to find it if it's out there, but its not, there isn't any TOBACCO being grown and extracted in labs here in the USA that sell it retail I'm pretty sure, if so, Like I have been asking, SOMEONE PROVE IT !!!
 

mwa102464

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I think it was announced from fsusa who stated in a thread they are going to test the juice. I have not heard a peep since it was announced. Did this ever happen?

I do think we have to ask questions/research our vendors. I still have not seen any US manufacturers of nicotine. However I don't have a problem as long as it is disclosed.

someone should PM David the owner of that company and ask him about what he was so highly speaking of a couple of months back and get an answer, I cant do it or I would
 

Elendil

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Doesn't Johnson Creek have a lab of some sort?


BTW, were all of you this, (excuse the term) "fanatical" about the ingredients you were smoking in analogs all those years. Did you write RJR or Philip Morris and demand to know the ingredients in your favorite brand? Certainly we need to be aware of what we are ingesting, but it's amazing how the perspective can change.

You know you can extract your own nicotine from tobacco, right? Numerous folks in countries where it is hard to obtain juice do it routinely.
 

Frick

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Wasn't there talk a few months ago by a vendor who was going to have their juices tested for purity/ingredients? Anyone know what happened with that? IIR they were going to post the resulting analysis.

They probably put out calls for a quote, and were shocked at the amount of money a lab wanted to do the analysis. Things like that don't come cheap.
 

Sdh

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someone should PM David the owner of that company and ask him about what he was so highly speaking of a couple of months back and get an answer, I cant do it or I would



I won't do that! It is not worth the trouble. Yes I do DIY because of the bathtub brewers. I also care what I put in my lungs. Sure I smoked but that is irrevelant when it comes to a potential bad chemical that could harm my lungs faster than cigs could. Diacetyl and equivelent. Bad nicotine. etc.

As a consumer I do have the right to know what is in the juice.
 
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