Where is your juice REALLY comming from?

[Bovinia]

Doesn't Johnson Creek have a lab of some sort?


BTW, were all of you this, (excuse the term) "fanatical" about the ingredients you were smoking in analogs all those years. Did you write RJR or Philip Morris and demand to know the ingredients in your favorite brand? Certainly we need to be aware of what we are ingesting, but it's amazing how the perspective can change.

You know you can extract your own nicotine from tobacco, right? Numerous folks in countries where it is hard to obtain juice do it routinely.

I think the point is that we vape for a safeR alternative to smoking. I think when one chooses to invest in a healthier lifestyle, a change in perspective is natural. Some people care and some don't, but those who care research looking for answers.

Yes nic can be extracted from leaves but the question of purity still remains.

 

[juicefreak]

I hear what your saying Juicefreak, However you would be very surprised if you saw some of the supposed labs in china that this juice is made in, if you think there all adults in white lab jackets and everything is clean as a whistle you are mistaken my friend, I actually would really like to see this in an all USA lab and like to find it if it's out there, but its not, there isn't any TOBACCO being grown and extracted in labs here in the USA that sell it retail I'm pretty sure, if so, Like I have been asking, SOMEONE PROVE IT !!!

true, but they are leaps and bounds ahead of us in that dept, and if you can believe their ROHS certs, their test samples are clean I got some Rath Waffle last year that come to find out was made by his wife at their kitchen table, if the rumors were true. it was a thick, black disgusting brew that i couldn't bring myself to vape and i couldn't give it away lol. No one wanted it because they had btdt.

I DIY with PA flavors, xtremevaping (levi) nic juice, Haddock Labs PG from my local pharmacy, Sky Vodka or PGA, and Mineral water. On occasion I'll buy some LX taboo, or something else, but I'm not seeing any better quality in premium juices other than a fancier bottle and label. They have the same INCONSISTENCIES from bottle to bottle, which tells me = quality control. @ $1 a ML + $6.95+ shipping, i expect better, so I don't reorder. Every time those flavorings, bottles, nic juice touch hands = quality control heads downhill. USA made, even if it's just mixed here, is a negative to me for that reason.

There are too many usa vendors cropping up daily. take your pick as far as quality control. Like others said, where's the lab report?

I did vape some homegrown tobacco that we grew in our organic garden 2 yrs ago. Bad news is, you'll still get all the chemicals that are in the tobacco plant. Nic extraction is something best left to a lab. if a vendor is claiming to extract from his own leaves, i'd run like hell myself

 

[Zal42]

I actually would really like to see this in an all USA lab and like to find it if it's out there, but its not, there isn't any TOBACCO being grown and extracted in labs here in the USA that sell it retail I'm pretty sure, if so, Like I have been asking, SOMEONE PROVE IT !!!

FSUSA claims that their nic juice is "Certified by U.S. Labs". Presumably, they could produce the certifications if you asked for them. This is not a claim of where it was produced, but if the stuff is tested and certified, it doesn't matter much in terms of quality.

 

[keelalagirl55]

Quality supplier of custom synthesis, bulk and specialty chemical compounds - BOC Sciences

Located id NY....now you will need more info than just USP Nicotine or Liquid Nicotine. They do have listed Nicotine Extract, but you will most likely need to know the Chemical make up or Chem name for what you are looking for......

 

[Zal42]

I won't do that! It is not worth the trouble.

...

As a consumer I do have the right to know what is in the juice.

As a consumer, you have a right to ask for the information that you need to make your purchasing decision. So, ask! If the response doesn't meet your needs, then don't buy from that manufacturer.

However, you're saying here that it's not worth the trouble to find out, which implies that you don't really care. So what's the problem?

 

[Sdh]

FSUSA claims that their nic juice is "Certified by U.S. Labs". Presumably, they could produce the certifications if you asked for them. This is not a claim of where it was produced, but if the stuff is tested and certified, it doesn't matter much in terms of quality.

Never heard of hospital grade pg. I have heard of pharmaceutical grade.

 

[Sdh]

...



As a consumer, you have a right to ask for the information that you need to make your purchasing decision. So, ask! If the response doesn't meet your needs, then don't buy from that manufacturer.

However, you're saying here that it's not worth the trouble to find out, which implies that you don't really care. So what's the problem?

Any vendor besides them. I don't buy anything from them. Its a long story but you can look at their archives.

 

[Elendil]

...



As a consumer, you have a right to ask for the information that you need to make your purchasing decision. So, ask! If the response doesn't meet your needs, then don't buy from that manufacturer.

However, you're saying here that it's not worth the trouble to find out, which implies that you don't really care. So what's the problem?

Exactly. Unfortunately sometimes people are more interested in grinding a personal axe and lack the tact to ask questions with civility. It has the net effect of removing credibility and moves them to the category of shrill background noise that is best ignored.

 

[RubenX]

...
As a consumer, you have a right to ask...
...

And that's exactly what we are doing. Are you a supplier? Do you sell USA MADE stuff? Is it made with Dekang? Is a very simple question really...

A. Yes it is made with dekang.
B. No, is not made with dekang.

 

[earthpig]

Johnson Creek seems to have good QC, and a professional lab. They are willing to go up against FDA scrutiny. I'm satisfied with their products regardless of the sources they use in their fluid mix, since they are careful and set up properly to put it together. Looks like a very professional setup with pharma quality mixing and testing...I'm satisfied totally with them.

The point was made earlier...did we look into what was in "real" cigs? Nope! I did smoke American Spirits due to their claims of being "natural", no additives, and (considered) less chemicals (maybe 2500 vs 4000 chems). I didn't ask for a chemical breakdown with them. Did anybody here get curious with their cigs and chase it down????
If not then, then why now???

Now I get that I don't want to inhale flavors mixed in a bathtub or drink moonshine either. So some caution is needed. Also the FDA (as much as I hate saying this, since I detest them) got it right in catching sample carto's that were tainted from China.
I also get that the FDA is overemphasizing their findings, to try and kill our efforts in vaping (fools).

Nicotine is far from the issue here when using reasonable companies who are concerned with lawsuit if they get it wrong. Remember the power here, is Americans are Sue Happy! Peter Francis Geraci will help (sheesh).
Flavorings are the issue...flat out!
Not Nicotine

pork

 

[mwa102464]

So it seems it is all coming from China I'm pretty convinced of that now. I also want to learn more about the extraction process and exactly what 99.9-99.8-99.7-99.6-99.5 differences are, so far I have only really found one place in China where I can get 99.9 Nic which has NO Mysoline in it and is the most pure I can find so far and is as clear as water and what I'm using to do my DIY which is mostly what I do now ( I still do support a couple of juice vendors though) Anyway like I have been saying for a while now why there is sales on Nic and you find it at 1/3 price sometimes is because it is getting old and suppliers want to re up there stock for fresh. I wouldn't use some of the Nic I have seen some of my friends using and like to buy fresh. I buy mine at 250ml's at a time and buy the time it is all used up it is still almost all clear. The more oxygen hits it the darker it starts to get along with the more impurities in it also degrades quicker.

These are the reasons I like to buy fresh instead of stockpile and think its the best to go this route if your a DIY'r. Asking questions about what your buying and educated questions is the best way to go and buy from a trusted supplier who knows what he is selling and exactly what grade of NIC your getting & using. Did I care years ago when I smoked, obviously not, but do I care about what vapables and Nic I'm using today, absolutely I do.!

 

[Zal42]

And that's exactly what we are doing.

Not in this forum, though. If you want proof (certifications, etc.) of content and purity of specific suppliers, you probably won't find it on this board. You need to contact the suppliers themselves.

Not knocking this board, of course. You will find lots of cool stuff, including serious studies and lab testing, about the safety of juices and vaping in the general sense. More studies are always welcome, but it's not like there aren't any at all.

And of the studies that have been done, they all (even the infamous FDA "antifreeze" report) strongly lean towards vaping being a ton safer than smoking.

 

[jed]

So it seems it is all coming from China I'm pretty convinced of that now. I also want to learn more about the extraction process and exactly what 99.9-99.8-99.7-99.6-99.5 differences are, so far I have only really found one place in China where I can get 99.9 Nic which has NO Mysoline in it and is the most pure I can find so far and is as clear as water and what I'm using to do my DIY which is mostly what I do now ( I still do support a couple of juice vendors though) Anyway like I have been saying for a while now why there is sales on Nic and you find it at 1/3 price sometimes is because it is getting old and suppliers want to re up there stock for fresh. I wouldn't use some of the Nic I have seen some of my friends using and like to buy fresh. I buy mine at 250ml's at a time and buy the time it is all used up it is still almost all clear. The more oxygen hits it the darker it starts to get along with the more impurities in it also degrades quicker.

These are the reasons I like to buy fresh instead of stockpile and think its the best to go this route if your a DIY'r. Asking questions about what your buying and educated questions is the best way to go and buy from a trusted supplier who knows what he is selling and exactly what grade of NIC your getting & using. Did I care years ago when I smoked, obviously not, but do I care about what vapables and Nic I'm using today, absolutely I do.!

I would have to agree with you mwa.... The correlation between fresh nic purity and a great juice may be more than we think. Don does ship his nic in and apparently does not do the extracting himself.

Now to another note. Im getting low on Nicotine and was told it will be a little bit before new comes in so there may be a little downtime coming the beginning of the week. Of course right when things have mellowed with ordering and I have had the site running for 2 days straight. Im sorry about this but one thing I wont do is use just any Nicotine, Its either the good stuff or none at all, and im sure you will all agree with that end of things.

Don uses the "good stuff" so there is "bad stuff" out there. Now the question is who else uses the "good stuff"? mwa, you mentioned you "support a couple of juice vendors though"...is it to much to ask who they are? I would like to limit my purchases from not only good flavors but also good nic. Any help in sorting the wheat from the chaff is appreciated.
Most purveyors of juice are mostly just that....quality may be a concern but is more of an afterthought when chasing the almighty. They sell the juice to "sell" the juice with no real dedication or time invested into the quality of the final product.

 

[BGhere]

That is exactly my point. Sellers just say "is USA made" and "everything is available locally" but... most places don't even have a store front, let alone a tobacco plantation. I highly doubt R.J. Reynolds is providing the nic. I would like to know where the nic comes from, where is being processed, etc. If its true that everything is of USA origin, then there should be no problem disclosing the details.

And again, even if you sale USA Made stuff I would probably go straight for the Dekang Sam Mint which is my main vape (I love that stuff). But if you say you have USA Made stuff you better be telling the truth. If you have Dekang Nic and mix it locally, then say is "USA MADE", e-cig haters will find out and make a sting about it... then everybody is gonna pay.

I like the dekang apple, but what is sam/mint??

 

[earthpig]

When looking at the reports from Ruyan and N-Joy, on their products fluids, even when broken down into it's finest miniscule parts, (as FDA did with N-Joy) there is a sense of purity that is better than cigarette tobacco, and at pharma grade in the nitrocyamines(and I know I butchered the spelling there) levels.

Face it . If anyone was to have a bone to pick on nicotine, it would be the FDA. They claim a level of the "nitros" (I won't bother twice) to be that of pharma grade gum and inhalers, and 100-1000 times less than the cigarette counterparts , with Marlboro hitting the top of the toxin list. Even in Marlboro that level is not scientifically proven to be of any danger...
Sorry about the sketchy facts and spellings, but I would assume many here have read these reports by Ruyan or FDA (on N-Joy). There is no comparison on the Nic level to cigs. Now I know this is only 2 companies, but if you choose a reputable company for fluids... I don't see a concern. Also Johnson Creek ran their analysis, and it's out there to peruse as well.

Also, I've never seen any evidence of Nicotine losing potency or going bad with age. Shelf life is at minimum 2 years, and it is of course wise to keep air out of the opened bottles as best possible, but no one I have ever read reports or info on, has said the air would taint nicotine before 2 years, and if stored proper, it is an unknown timeline of how long nicotine will keep. It is assumed far far longer than 2 yrs (and I've read easily 10 yrs). Since suppliers don't keep it around near that long (2 yrs), and take care on how it is stored, I again don't get the concern.

I get and appreciate the dedication to chasing these things down for our safety, and they do need looked at, but nothing I have read here or anywhere else has proven a safety issue. Especially when put up against cigarette counterparts, which in Nic levels/contaminates is also proven safe..
Careful in trying to make something out of nothing

Pig

 

[UntamedRose]

Think Pig summed that up really well.

Just a few things...I get the feeling a few are confused here on.
Dekang..is a company, it isnt Chinese for "all the eliquid and nicotine made in china" Yall are basically saying "the only burgers available are from Burger King." It's not logical, and simply not true.

There ARE companies who purchase bulk Dekang premixed liquids and either rebottle them or simply relabel them. Yes it's highly annoying as noobie, there is a learning curve you will figure out who is and isnt doing this and what to look for and avoid.
Just b/c some companies do this..doesnt mean they All do this.

There ARE companies in the US who refine NIC, and companies who dilute it down to 100mg for ecig use....I'm not sure why this is such an issue. Even if a company IS purchases Chinese nicotine, and mixing it from there...that doesnt make it magically Dekang, nor chinese. (buy hamburger from the grocery store, season it, grill it...now you have a Burger king burger!)
Plus company certainly does not need to grow, refine, mix...ect ect and all that crap to be "US made" o0 seriously people there would be no such thing as "US made" Anything.

 

[earthpig]

Being that Nicotine is less than 5% of what is in fluid, and fairly well controlled for production, as well as considered pharma grade, I don't get the concerns. Nicotine is generally considered a smoking item, so much is known about what it does in the lungs. Not so on Flavors. Flavorings are so varied and even have false sweeteners(splenda/other) and other items of unknown origin, it gets disconcerting about what is in then.
Do you know the burn (vapor./flash point) temps of what's vaped? Do you know on KR808D-1's the carto temp gets around 450f deg? Do you know the burn(flash/vapor) point of VG (320f) and PG (~220f). Mind you the PG/VG are carriers, but some flavorings don't get there and are toasted and burnt earlier (thus burnt items inhaled). BUT the burn is only part of the issue. It's whats in the flavorings that can be of issue. Flavorings can be 5-15% of what's in fluids.

I'm not trying to hijack a thread here, but instead to put a level of importance to what we are discussing.
A semi-known , comapred to a mostly unknown.

Again, it is good to discuss nicotine and its mfgr'ing/use but is it something to be alarmist over, or just to gain knowledge of?

Pork( eat more chicken)

 

[juicefreak]

i totally agree with the others that mentioned flavorings are more of a concern than nic juice. just reading the cornucopia of "flavors" that a vendor has, to me spells lorann's diyr with some good recipes that ppl want to vape.

I use PA flavors mostly and only a few drops at that. Linda weighs all her ingredients when she mixes. Everything is exact. She doesn't rely on ML, droppers full, etc, and she lists the ingredients on her website. It may be my ignorance or lack of fanboyism, but i suspect a lot of Lorann's, Capella's, PA is going into usa made/mixed juices. I don't know what lorann's put in their food/candy flavorings, so i try to avoid them.

less is more in my vaping experience and i cringe when i see youtube DIY's of a dram bottle of lorann's poured in a bottle and nic juice added. that is just totally disgusting to me and god only knows what all those flavorings would do to someone's lungs.

 

[deusXmchna]

<snip>
I use PA flavors mostly and only a few drops at that. Linda weighs all her ingredients when she mixes. Everything is exact. She doesn't rely on ML, droppers full, etc, and she lists the ingredients on her website <snip>

Are you talking about using the actual individual molecules avail on the website, (just for example): acetyl pyrazine, vanillin, dihydrocoumarin, etc?

Or are you talking about the flavorings: tea, peanut butter, hazelnut, etc.?

 

[juicefreak]

Are you talking about using the actual individual molecules avail on the website, (just for example): acetyl pyrazine, vanillin, dihydrocoumarin, etc?

Or are you talking about the flavorings: tea, peanut butter, hazelnut, etc.?

yes the actual molecules. Linda weighs each one after she works out the percentages for the flavor. she is very exacting and wouldn't think of using anything but a scale. Her flavors are mostly clear and very flavorful. I think it was Subatandan or another ECF member that got her started on making custom blends. She used to just have Tobacco Accord and Ethyl Maltol available. Now she has tons of flavors. I actually helped her blend up her DK Tobacco base and a starter base for tobacco juices.

Perfumers Apprentice - Molecules used in Tobacco Blends

if you haven't tried her stuff, give her a try. I believe if you keep your order under $13. she can ship first class (cheaper). her 4ml bottles are so cheap you can get several and give them a try and be under $13.

Perfumers Apprentice - Professional DIY Flavors