where to get a 1micron filter?

[Stacy1]

A couple of questions about using them also. I saw a picture where they had the filter in the narrow end of a funnel and the liquid poured in and allowed to drain into a bottle. Is that how you use them? I was wondering if maybe it would be possible to cut one of the filters just a little larger than say a 20ml syringe, and stuff it down to the needle end completely covering the bottom. Then maybe apply just a little bit of pressure with the plunger to help push the liquid through.

 

[Str8vision]

Ahlstrom 6420-1100 Qualitative Filter Paper Circle, 2 Micron, Medium Flow, Grade 642, 11cm Diameter (Pack of 100)

Ahlstrom

Is this what I need to order str8?

That is the type/grade I currently use. The 11cm is 4.3" in diameter. I suggest cutting an 11cm circle from a sheet of regular paper and practice folding it into a small cone filter. YouTube has instructional videos on folding filter paper and many illustrations are available on-line with a Google image search. If you plan on using a regular funnel to hold the filter, I would suggest a full pleated cone fold (pleated like the sides of a coffee filter). Making a paper model lets you see how big a filter you will have with a given filter diameter before buying a hundred of them. You can even fill the mock-up with water to determine its liquid holding capacity. I wouldn't recommend the syringe disk idea, the filter surface area would be far too small, loading/clogging up and solvent could bypass around the filter. For gravity flow filtration, I highly recommend a pleated basket or cone fold as it creates a container of sorts. Once poured in, the solvent has no where to go but through the filter itself.

 

[Stacy1]

great. Thanks. Going to go watch some of the youtube videos now

 

[papabogart]

If you want to experiment with syringe filtering at finer filtration:

http://www.amazon.com/SEOH-Syringe-...d=1414441638&sr=8-34&keywords=syringe+filters

 

[Soignee]

If you want to experiment with syringe filtering at finer filtration:

http://www.amazon.com/SEOH-Syringe-...d=1414441638&sr=8-34&keywords=syringe+filters

Is fiberglass "food safe"?

 

[Stacy1]

ok. I've watched a few videos, and the filters seem simple enough which is good. Looks like I also need to invest in a glass funnel. Before I pull the trigger on these two, one last question then I will try to leave you alone haha. Doing a vanilla extraction, with the amount of small plant matter that will be present, do you think it's better to use smaller filters, and change them out after so many ml have filtered through them, or use the larger ones. With dealing in 2micron filtration, I would think that the filters won't be able to filter alot of the extraction before clogging, though I know that every time the filter is changed out more of the extraction will be lost due to saturation. Not having done this before, I don't know what the limits are on the filters. I don't want to get them too big and then after a quarter or so of the liquid has filtered it's plugged. I guess my question is, what is a good size in terms of diameter to get? The 11cm is pretty small by the time it's folded, but if they clog pretty fast I would guess the small ones would be better

 

[papabogart]

My apologies Stacy1. I wanted to show you an alternative to your syringe idea. I did a search for sterile cellulose acetate syringe filters and didn't check that the 1 um I linked to was both sterile and cellulose. I can't say if anything other than cellulose is safe, that's why I only use cellulose. What I really wanted to find for you was the syringe filter holders. I've read where a person cut their own filter paper and placed it in a filter holder. I think they paid about $35 for the holder, but I can't find one that cheap on amazon.

Ebay has these:
Pall Gelman Sciences 4320 Easy Pressure 25mm Syringe Filter Holder 6 Pack | eBay

 

[Stacy1]

What do you use for your extractions papa? The more ideas, the better as far as I'm concerned. This is going to be a long term thing for me with vanilla and eventually tobacco as well. I've only been doing DIY juice for a short time. Less than two months, but I don't plan on giving up vaping, and I don't want to buy premade juice(well except an occasional Nicoticket treat). I love mixing flavors, and I know I'm going to love extracting. All and any ideas of what people are using to filter their extractions are encouraged, because this is completely uncharted territory for me. People sharing their experiences is what makes this forum so informative and exciting. Everything I've been able to find is people extracting vanilla for cooking. They all use alcohol(except one lady I found that uses hot water and VG) but none of them are worried about filtering to the degree that needs to happen for it to be vapable. I don't mind putting in work myself as far as researching something. I've put in countless hours on this site alone educating myself to get to the point I'm at now, but I just can't find the resources for this venture. Str8vision has been more than helpful with his suggestions, and with his info I know I can get this first run filtered in a few months, but if anyone else out there is doing what we're doing and going about it in a different way please post it

 

[papabogart]

I'm not sure that you will find my method useful. I wanted to filter at 1 um and below, but I couldn't find any cellulose filters (not glass) at that level until I found filters used for wine clarification. Their stated rating is 1 um and 0.5 um, but those are likely nominal. The reason I doubt you will want to use them is that they are 5/32" thick and wont gravity feed. They require vacuum or positive pressure and need a filter holder to be acquired. That gets a bit expensive. I am happy with the results at 1 micron, but 0.5 micron can affect the taste of some of my tobaccos. I think the method and filters recommended by Str8 are the most economical, unless you want to filter at 1 um and bellow with cellulose (I'm not sure glass is safe?). In that case I'd be happy to give you the details.

 

[Stacy1]

Sweetie I don't even know what bellow means

 

[Soignee]

One of the things I enjoy most about this extraction forum is there are no "wrong" questions. In fact, I only began using high retention filter paper after it was recommended by Johni, one of the regular contributors on this forum.

I use the same filters for all my "flavor" extractions. I selected my filters based on the solvents I would be using, not on what I would be extracting flavor from. I use PG, PGA (and blends of the two), for all my flavor extractions. Note that when using PGA you want to avoid cellulose "nitrate" filters as there is a compatibility issue, all other cellulose base filters work just fine.

PG, PGA (and blends of the two), will gravity flow through 2 micron filter paper but takes a very long time to do so. Warmer ambient temperatures speed up the process (by reducing the solvent's viscosity), as does increasing the surface area of the filter (using larger diameter filter paper). The flip side of this equation is that the larger the filter, the more extract loss there will be due to absorption/saturation. Under ideal conditions, when filtering a PG based solvent through 2 micron filter paper, a single drip every few minutes is the typical "gravity" flow rate.

I made and use the vanilla extract to flavor NET and even then had to add "Holy Vanilla" or French vanilla concentrate to obtain the overall flavor I was seeking. Mine soaked in PG for six months because I stashed it in a drawer (away from my macerated tobaccos), and simply forgot about it. Adding 10-15% PGA should speed things up, pull a few drops (unfiltered), every few weeks and mix up a sample, best way to determine when it's ready. I mix/keep a 30ml dropper bottle of 16mg 50/50 VG/PG unflavored nic base just for in process sampling. To sample at 20%, I mix 2 drops of "extract" solvent with 8 drops of my16mg nic base, makes just enough to saturate a freshly wicked micro-coil.

Str8vision, so when you did your VB extraction did you simply pass through the 2 mu filter paper and seeds were gone or did you do an initial pass through something coarser (coffee filter etc...)? I'm curious because after a week of sifting through web pages I just discovered that the VB seed diameter is .3 mm (300 microns)! So I'm wondering if you did a pre pass and saw seeds filtered or if it just went through the 2 mu filter and there wasn't an opportunity to see if a coarser paper was sufficient.

Sorry to be a bug but I need to budget for this down the road.
Thanks!

 

[papabogart]

Sweetie I don't even know what bellow means

Yep: Fat fingers. Meant "below."

 

[Stacy1]

Soignee I would think that an initial filtration would need to be done to remove the larger particles. Maybe using the coffee filter as a first filter, and then once all the larger particles are removed then go to lower micron filtration

 

[Stacy1]

I'm not sure that you will find my method useful. I wanted to filter at 1 um and below, but I couldn't find any cellulose filters (not glass) at that level until I found filters used for wine clarification. Their stated rating is 1 um and 0.5 um, but those are likely nominal. The reason I doubt you will want to use them is that they are 5/32" thick and wont gravity feed. They require vacuum or positive pressure and need a filter holder to be acquired. That gets a bit expensive. I am happy with the results at 1 micron, but 0.5 micron can affect the taste of some of my tobaccos. I think the method and filters recommended by Str8 are the most economical, unless you want to filter at 1 um and bellow with cellulose (I'm not sure glass is safe?). In that case I'd be happy to give you the details.

Have you used the 1um and below for a vanilla extraction? I don't mind spending a little money, within reason, but I too would be worried about the effect on flavor when getting too low

 

[papabogart]

Have you used the 1um and below for a vanilla extraction? I don't mind spending a little money, within reason, but I too would be worried about the effect on flavor when getting too low

Nope. As Str8 has filtered vanilla. that's why I suggest you follow his lead. My experience with NET suggests you follow a step-down filtration process. Measure twice, cut once.

 

[Bagazo]

Vanillin is the primary component of vanilla bean extract. It has a molecular size of about 0.0002 microns.

If the molecule was a grain of sand 1mm in diameter, a pore in a 1 um filter would be bigger than a barn door, approx 5 meters (16ft) in diameter.

I don't trust anyone who claims changes in flavors without a double blind taste test.

 

[Stacy1]

Vanillin is the primary component of vanilla bean extract. It has a molecular size of about 0.0002 microns.

If the molecule was a grain of sand 1mm in diameter, a pore in a 1 um filter would be bigger than a barn door, approx 5 meters (16ft) in diameter.

I don't trust anyone who claims changes in flavors without a double blind taste test.

So by that statement I'm guessing you're saying that no matter how much filtration is done on a vanilla extract, you won't lose any flavor?

 

[Bagazo]

Well, it is the theory until someone puts it to the test correctly.

It also isn't just vanilla but most, of not all, flavor molecules, since they tend to be in that size range.

Of course "flavor" is more than just flavor. For example, I recall an article on filtering beer and the jist was that it seemed to filter out the "soul" of the beer. It doesn't really remove flavor but it does alter the mouthfeel because it can remove larger molecules that make up the body of a beer. Kind of like throat hit is important to vaporers. Not really a flavor thing but it is part of the experience.

Just maybe a little gunk smoldering on a coil gives some the hint of something that they feel is missing. In that case filtering below a certain level can seem like a negative thing.

 

[Stacy1]

The "feel" is kind of what I'm chasing in a sense. Nicoticket is the reason I'm making this extraction. I don't want to per say clone their juice, but what makes their juice so good to me is the buttery feel in the mouth that I get from vaping their juice. All the flavors that they have that I love all have the same common denominator, their naturally extracted vanilla. I know they don't achieve it by the vanilla extraction alone, but it does play a huge part in it. If I can get close to that "feel" I have endless possibilities as to what I can do for my own creations

 

[Bagazo]

I think that would be the flip side to the beer example because in this case the flavors in the e-juice, which I assume are pretty "clean", are causing this buttery mouthfeel.

They are both examples of how we sometimes mix and interpret sensory data.

I've never had nicoticket so I would have no idea what that buttery note is like.

Since this is a vanilla extract I would think that an ethanol extraction would do a better job at extracting the flavor and make for easier filtering at sub-micron levels.