Cold maceration of tobacco

[billherbst]

I have some of Johni's Missouri Meerschaum Country Gentleman extract. Of all the VA-Per blends I've tried, it's the sweetest, most dessert-like hybrid. Good stuff, especially as I seem to have moved away from the harder-core straight tobaccos. I also like Cornell & Diehl Poplar Camp, which is sweet, but less so than Country Gentleman. Next is Hearth & Home Anniversary Kake, a more complex blend, and finally H&H Louisiana Red, which remains the strongest, least sweet of my Va-Pers. I may have one or two Virginia-Periques, but I can't think of them right this moment.

 

[Str8vision]

Using the 1 micron filters didn't seem to reduce or impede flavor instead it seems to clarify it, changing the flavor but in a good way. A slight improvement over 2 micron filtration in my opinion but nothing stellar, not a game changer. The flavorings I add (creams/vanillas), appear stronger and more distinct (much the same as they did when I first started filtering at 2 microns), so I will recalibrate their percentages downward once again. The flavor profile and intensity did not seem to vary throughout the first tankful which is another slight improvement over 2 micron filtration. Flavor wise, the 1 micron filters are an improvement.

First impressions on cleanliness/gunking attributes is that 1 micron filtration produces a noticeably cleaner extract but not enough so that it would change our re-wicking/dry burn regimen. The flavor profile didn't change at all throughout an entire tankful and the juice didn't darken as fast as normal but on the second tank (without re-wicking/dry burn), I did perceive wick saturation as airflow began to feel restricted and the flavor profile started to change. At that point (about half way through the second tankful), I disassembled for inspection but found the wick (Japanese cotton), wasn't nearly as dark/dirty as I had expected and coil buildup was quite minimal. Nonetheless, the fact I could "perceive" a change in flavor is all that counts for me. I'm not exactly sure what component in NET causes juice in the wick to congeal/thicken (saturate), to the point of altering flavor/performance, but hope it is something that filtration can ultimately remedy. Higher levels of filtration certainly help mitigate the effect, increasing the amount of juice that can be atomized before saturation occurs but so far, even at 1 micron, isn't able to prevent it. When compared to 2 micron, the 1 micron filters do provide slight yet notable improvements in flavor and performance but when factoring in cost ($0.09 each for 2 micron -VS- $1.00+ each for 1 micron), the cost/benefit ratio just doesn't pan out, at least not for me. At $0.27 each (the reduced price I paid), it would be a different story as denoted below.

Filtration notes: Both macerations tested used a sequential PGA/PG extraction method outlined in an earlier post. Due to lower ambient temps (<60F), I extended the PGA soak time to 120 hours @ room temperature. After removing the PGA and replacing it with PG I extended the 140F soak time to 20 hours. After mixing the PGA and PG solvents together and evaporating off the PGA I had aprox. 85ml of extract from each of the two macerations. I pre-filtered each batch using filter felt and for the first time ever the filter felt clogged and did so on both batches. Took over an hour to pre-filter 85mls when it normally only takes 7 minutes. The felt was absolutely black and gunky. I feared the 1 micron filter would do the same but proceeded none the less as the 1 micron filters were designed to handle highly contaminated (high particle count), fluids which is why they are so much thicker than normal filter paper. I poured the pre-filtered extract into my filter holder and waited twenty minutes just to see what gravity alone would do. As suspected not a single drop passed through. As I applied vacuum I was surprised at how easily the extract flowed through, much better/easier than with 2 micron cellulose filters. Took less than 3 minutes under vacuum to filter 80ml. I repeated the process filtering the extract twice without a hitch. Changing filters for the next batch, I examined the used filter and it was certainly dark/gunky on the filtering side but never loaded to the point of clogging. I must say I was impressed. If I could obtain this specific grade of binderless glass filters for under $0.27 each (the reduced price I paid for the 1 micron version), I would likely convert to using them exclusively. A pleasure to use.

 

[Kingboomer]

Guys I have a question on separation. I hesitate to say filtration, because what I'm thinking of trying out has nothing to do with a filter. Now in homebrewing wines and meads, after an initial racking some folks (myself included) do a cold crash. Basically this entails putting your carboy somewhere cold (IE fridge) to get the left over particulates to fall out of suspension. This I'll do over night, or longer if I forget . Would this be feasible with these extractions?


-Kingboomer

 

[billherbst]

Str8,

From your report, I think I'll stay with my current process and set-up using the French Press with 5-micron poly felt followed by a 2-micron gravity funnel. Having so many homemade tobacco extracts now---50 of my own, plus another 30 or so from my compatriots---I haven't had sufficient motivation to do any more batches recently, although I still have nine more cigars and seven pipe blends in stock and waiting. At this point, spending any more money on either tobacco or equipment is not productive for me, since I have enough natural extract to last me about five years.

In a side note, I want to give a special shout-out to Johni. Recently, John retired from vaping altogether, which, in terms of home extraction, is rather like Elvis leaving the building. I wish him well, and especially want to thank John for his kind and generous gift to me of his remaining stock of four Missouri Meerschaum tobacco blends and extracts, which I got in the mail yesterday.

John, you're a prince of a guy and will be sorely missed on these threads! Happy holidays to you and yours.

 

[Str8vision]

Guys I have a question on separation. I hesitate to say filtration, because what I'm thinking of trying out has nothing to do with a filter. Now in homebrewing wines and meads, after an initial racking some folks (myself included) do a cold crash. Basically this entails putting your carboy somewhere cold (IE fridge) to get the left over particulates to fall out of suspension. This I'll do over night, or longer if I forget . Would this be feasible with these extractions?


-Kingboomer

I've tried "cold crashes" with PGA based extractions after I have mixed the PGA with PG and evaporated off the PGA. I've placed the PG in my deep freeze overnight as that "seems" to expedite separating/consolidating the oils extracted by the PGA into globules which are then more easily removed during the first stage of filtering (clings to the fuzzy felt filter). When I'm not in a hurry, the oils will separate at room temperature but it can take several days. The suspended solids (plant matter), I'm removing removing are so small I doubt stratification would be feasible/effective especially when considering the viscosity of PG when cold. Even if it were, seems like you would still have to sacrifice a major portion of your extract because the bottom layer would contain concentrated "contaminants" rendering it unusable. That portion of your extract would either be discarded (wasted), or would need to be filtered before being useable. If you're going to filter any of it why not just filter all of it in the first place?

 

[Kingboomer]

Makes sense str8. I was just thinking of using what I have on hand and getting the extract as clean as possible without having to buy extra stuff. I didn't take the viscosity of PG into account either, thanks for that!

 

[Str8vision]

Str8,

From your report, I think I'll stay with my current process and set-up using the French Press with 5-micron poly felt followed by a 2-micron gravity funnel. Having so many homemade tobacco extracts now---50 of my own, plus another 30 or so from my compatriots---I haven't had sufficient motivation to do any more batches recently, although I still have nine more cigars and seven pipe blends in stock and waiting. At this point, spending any more money on either tobacco or equipment is not productive for me, since I have enough natural extract to last me about five years.

In a side note, I want to give a special shout-out to Johni. Recently, John retired from vaping altogether, which, in terms of home extraction, is rather like Elvis leaving the building. I wish him well, and especially want to thank John for his kind and generous gift to me of his remaining stock of four Missouri Meerschaum tobacco blends and extracts, which I got in the mail yesterday.

John, you're a prince of a guy and will be sorely missed on these threads! Happy holidays to you and yours.

I think you're right Bill, I see no compelling reason to alter or deviate from your current filtering process. I will play around with different methods/levels of filtration but am not at all confident filtering in of itself will be the answer for NET gunking issues but I enjoy experimenting/tinkering.

I didn't know Johni had retired from vaping, will definitely miss his posts/presence. I do wish him the best of luck in whatever endeavors he undertakes, Godspeed my friend. Hope he drops in every now and then to keep us honest and on our toes.....

 

[Str8vision]

Makes sense str8. I was just thinking of using what I have on hand and getting the extract as clean as possible without having to buy extra stuff. I didn't take the viscosity of PG into account either, thanks for that!

Cotton balls jammed into a syringe will work in a pinch but the cheapest way to obtain "quality" juice is to fold filter paper ( 2 - 3 micron retention rating and 9 - 18cm in diameter), into a cone and place it in a cheap plastic funnel, gravity alone can do the work (albeit very slowly). Filters in that retention range are inexpensive and can be had for about $0.12 each in packages of 100. There are more convenient/faster ways of doing it (French press or vacuum), but the end results won't taste any better or be any cleaner than just waiting for gravity to do the job overnight.

 

[johni]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I hope to stop in occasionally and see what's up as I've enjoyed the friendship and camaraderie here and wish you all the best in all your endeavors.

I've sent out over 400 mls of extracts which has dented my stash but still have some to pay forward. PM me if interested.

 

[Ian444]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I hope to stop in occasionally and see what's up as I've enjoyed the friendship and camaraderie here and wish you all the best in all your endeavors.

Very grateful Johni for all your help, I would not have been able to achieve the results I have without it. Despite over a year of vaping I have not been able to find a suitable ADV other than the NETs I have made. Also glad to hear you have given up vaping, I guess that is the eventual destination for many of us, I'm not sure if or when I'll get off the wagon but it does cross my mind occasionally

You will always be welcome here and I hope you keep dropping in to keep an eye on us!

 

[PaulBHC]

Yes Thanks to johni for making this thread and helping me along the way. Good luck in your adventures. Hope you are walking away from addiction as well.

 

[clnire]

I have to say I will miss johni but congratulate him on his decision. Johni has helped me a lot in my quest to do home extractions and has been generous with sharing his. He has contributed so much valuable information here and on other threads. He will be missed, I hope he checks in from time to time, and I wish him much success in all he does in life.

 

[Kingboomer]

Best regards Johni! this thread has got me in to getting the gear together to get started with NET's. good job on kicking the habit man!


-Kingboomer

 

[Ohio Points]

Thanks for the kind words guys. I hope to stop in occasionally and see what's up as I've enjoyed the friendship and camaraderie here and wish you all the best in all your endeavors.

I've sent out over 400 mls of extracts which has dented my stash but still have some to pay forward. PM me if interested.

I just wanted to give a shout out to John because I was the recipient of 6, 10ml. bottles of extract. they were nicely labelled ,bagged and shipped....
I can't wait to get them mixed up, they look/smell great!

What an awesome and generous thing to do for a stranger, I'll PIF for sure.

Thanks again Jon and best of luck to you all.

 

[molimelight]

I finally got off my .... and put an order in at P&C and ordered the following:

Missouri Meerschaum American Patriot
Three Sails
Rowland Gold
Peter Stokkebye 83 Amsterdam
Peter Stokkebye 702 Burley
Ryback Regular
Lane 1Q

Now I'm not planning on doing them all, just four at a time and see what happens. I just thought I'd put the list up here and see if anyone has any experience with any of these or any ideas on blending them.

They were backordered on Seattle Pipe Club Mississippi River, Daughters & Ryan Picayune and the Daughters & Ryan Rimboche A.B. all of which I asked to be notified on and will try in the future.

I'm with everyone else when I say I miss Johni's posts here. He's been a guide and inspiration in moving forward with this. I especially miss seeing the Mizzou Tiger up there. It's been a miserable BB season but spring football practice isn't too far off and we had a good recruit class at D-Line U. Maybe I'll have to pick up the slack and change my avatar. MIZ

 

[Smocian257]

I finally got off my .... and put an order in at P&C and ordered the following:

Missouri Meerschaum American Patriot
Three Sails
Rowland Gold
Peter Stokkebye 83 Amsterdam
Peter Stokkebye 702 Burley
Ryback Regular
Lane 1Q

Now I'm not planning on doing them all, just four at a time and see what happens. I just thought I'd put the list up here and see if anyone has any experience with any of these or any ideas on blending them.

They were backordered on Seattle Pipe Club Mississippi River, Daughters & Ryan Picayune and the Daughters & Ryan Rimboche A.B. all of which I asked to be notified on and will try in the future.

I'm with everyone else when I say I miss Johni's posts here. He's been a guide and inspiration in moving forward with this. I especially miss seeing the Mizzou Tiger up there. It's been a miserable BB season but spring football practice isn't too far off and we had a good recruit class at D-Line U. Maybe I'll have to pick up the slack and change my avatar. MIZ

Did 3 sails but heat not cold. Not good by itself just muddied. Im keeping it though because i have a roll your own blend in mind and i believe it will be a crucial component.

 

[Ian444]

I think a few people have done the American Patriot and reported good things. Lane 1-Q is one of my favorites, laid back with vanilla tones, simple but good.

 

[hobotek]

Day 19 and I took a bit of the tobacco soaked PG and mixed it 5% in a 50:50 PG/VG blend.

Tastes a lot like...grass, yes yard grass, similar to chewing on a blade of grass.

I think I'll name the blend Hillbilly Silverado or something similar.

Yeah, this uncured KY 21 attempt isn't going to fly by my taste buds.

I'm going to bite the bullet and toss some money at the cigar shop this weekend and try again.

Maurice

I'm having the same results using RYO processed tobacco, it's been sitting in PG for a month now, rotated daily. I filtered some through a syringe using cotton...The first few tokes tasted ok but it hit me by the 4th toke.....this S&^t is nasty. The smoke smelled just like a regular cig but the taste was like smoking weeds. What am I'm doing wrong people? Anyway to save this or just dump it?

 

[Ian444]

Don't dump it, mix a little bit of it at 15% with unflavored nic base and let it steep for 6 weeks minimum, then try it. Leave the rest in the jar for another month, or 2 weeks at least, then filter it and mix some up with unflavored and let that steep. You don't have to do anything to the jar during the maceration, it works fine just being left alone. What brand of tobacco is it?

 

[usr/]

I'm having the same results using RYO processed tobacco, it's been sitting in PG for a month now, rotated daily. I filtered some through a syringe using cotton...The first few tokes tasted ok but it hit me by the 4th toke.....this S&^t is nasty. The smoke smelled just like a regular cig but the taste was like smoking weeds. What am I'm doing wrong people? Anyway to save this or just dump it?

I don't think your really doing anything wrong, you just need to refine the process a little bit. First start with a quality tobacco. A good pipe tobacco. Something that is a straight Virginia mix or a mixture of Vir/Burley /Cavendish/Turkish I wouldn't go with any English blends containing Latakia's unless less you like that burning campfire smokey taste. It would be hard to recommend one right off the top of my head, there are so many. Captain Black Dark for example. Makes a nice smooth sweet smok. I prefer not too sweet. Cornell & Diehl Briar Fox and a Tatiana Nightcap cigar extract are a couple of my all time favorites, and they really didn't shine till after about three months of aging and a couple of weeks after mixing. If you want to keep it simple, just a cold soak 100% pg for one month minimum 6-8 weeks if you have the patience. Find a means of separating the extract from the rough tobacco. I use a fine mesh nylon grain bag from my homebrew days. It's tough reusable and last for years, then move to a paper filtering system. Coffee filter for your primary filter and then to a micro filter I just use gravity to filter but some here use AeroPress or French Press with great success. Bottle and let it sit. It can be a long process like winemaking, sure you can drink the wine right after you bottle it but if you wait, well........at this point I couldn't imagine buying any commercial juice anymore, especially synthetics, unless maybe it was a NET, from one of well known vendors. The high maintenance of rewicking almost daily is well worth it. Anyway good luck to you, hope this helps. Also the one you have now, I would try and filter it down some more and then let it sit as per ian's recommendation, you might be surprised in a couple months.