Which has a higher coil gunk factor - creams or sweetener?

[westhc]

I have noticed that some of my mixes darken quickly in a tank and also quickly gunk up the coil even at 9-10 watts - definitely not high temp.

My mixes are generally fruits with some creams and sweetener.
It does seem to happen more often where the mix has both creams and 1-2% sweetener.

The worst offender is my version of Dragon's Blood:
Dragon Fruit TFA 8%
Strawberry Ripe TFA 4%
Bavarian Cream TFA 2%
Sweet Cream TFA 2%
Vanilla Swirl TFA 2%
Sweetener TFA 1%
NY Cheesecake LA 1%

This is also a recipe where I mix the flavors first and then add them to my base at 18% rather than the 20% that the flavors add up to. (For me this was easier, once I got the flavor ratios right, than dealing with the fractions of a %).

So is the issue the creams, the sweetener, or the combination of the 2?
I am playing with a similar recipe with the same problem and reducing the creams and sweetener to see what happens.

Thoughts? Thanks.

 

[KattMamma]

Since I like both creams and sweets, this is something I would like to know as well!! I suspect it's both, but probably more about the sugar, since it will caramelize when heated. Not sure about the creams/custards -- but I have wondered.

I also read somewhere that EM was a coil killer, so I am now trying some of my recipes without it.

I'm also toying with higher wattages now - working on the theory that lower wattage may be more likely to caramelize the sugar while higher wattage may actually burn some of it off. I've only been testing this theory a few days, but I already got a stock coil to last longer than ever before by doing this. Repeating with other coils will convince me this is true (maybe I just got lucky with that one coil? time will tell!)

 

[dead not sleeping]

Some flavors are also coil gunkers. I am into fruits mainly, so I can't say much about the creams. I found Cap Raspberry v1 is an awful coil gunker. I don't know about their v2. So is Vanilla Swirl, but not so much at low percentages. I'm thinking that high flavor percentages would be more prone to gunking over lower percentages, thicker juices over thinner ones. My favorite adv ... raspberry-apple-champagne, I get just 2 days on a coil, but it tastes just too awesome, so I deal with the rewinding of the coils all the time. Another good one I mix is an Apple Champagne, and is the same mix minus the raspberry, and I get no gunking at all.

 

[KattMamma]

Well, I am on day 3 with current stock coil and still going strong - previous one made it 4 days (but I ran lower wattage the first 2 before deciding to try the higher wattages). Same juice but lower wattages had me getting no more than 2 days out of a stock coil. I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that higher wattage helps extend coil life when using coil-killing juices!

 

[VNeil]

I have a variation on this theme. I vape a lot of Bill's cinnamon danish. I use the same diy coils in a Mutation X dripper and a Kanger Subtank. The Mutation dripper coils are easy to burn off. The wick outside the coil is fine, just darkened.

But the subtank is much worse. The wicks are a solid chunk of carbon and I have to carefully ream out the inside of the coil, which is hard carbon. I'm trying a different flavor in the subtank now (Cream Fantastic) to see if that's easier one coil.

So the tank matters.

 

[AndriaD]

I think it may be more about the total % of flavoring, for the most part; also, any organic ingredients gunk worse than anything. My own ADV, Strawberry & Cream, has all 3 AND high percentage of flavoring, so a wick lasts me maybe 30-36 hrs, maybe 20-24 hrs of actual use -- 2 days TOPS, because I start seeing that brown ring at the very bottom of my kayfuns (I use M-tanks so I see it all the way to the bottom), and I know if don't get that juice out and get it re-wicked, soon it will all be brown, and though it still tastes just fine, my husband complains that it smells like "burnt crap" (he DOESN'T say "crap" though!). I use the Inawera Shisha Strawberry, and it definitely gunks, and using it at 16%, plus another 15% of 3 creams and sweetener, AND WTA.... *sigh*

I'm working on a recipe to reduce the total flavoring from 31% to 20%, but it will take time, because it will require steeping, which the 31% does not.

Andria

 

[westhc]

My recipes generally run at 18% flavor. Occasionally at 15%, a few at 20%.

One of favorites (thanks ECF folks) is Blueberry Cinnamon Crumble CAP 15% + 3% Blueberry Wild TFA. This mixes at a very light color and a coil lasts a long time and the liquid does not darken as time goes by. No sweeteners or creams other than what might be in the flavors themselves.
Another favorite is Rainbow Sherbet MBV 18%(I think this is the same as FW/MBV no longer sells the flavoring). This is a medium color juice and a a coil lasts a long time and the liquid does not darken as time goes by. No sweeteners or creams other than what might be in the flavor itself.
A third recipe (thanks again ECF folks) is Pomegranate TFA 6.5%, Blueberry Extra TFA 5.5%, Bavarian Cream TFA 5%, NY Cheesecake LA 1%. This is also a medium color juice. A coil does not last as long as the others above but this also does not darken as time goes by. I suspect the creams cause a bit of gunking after time.

It is the Dragons Blood recipe listed above that darkens quickly and gunks up the coil. It too is a medium color juice when it goes in the tank. It has about the same % of creams as the Pomegranate/Blueberry/Cream mix but also has sweetener.

I am trying these 4 favorites in GS Airs tanks with stock coils. I confess that I am getting lazy and tired of rebuilding coils so am tracking my stock coil life for the Airs. I'm looking for recipes that encourage a long coil life.
I really like the Dragons Blood recipe. The flavor in the Air is great but the coil life with it is not acceptable. I may have to come up with another flavor for that tank.

I do have another that is my evening decadence vape. Chocolate Raspberry CAP 11%, Chocolate Coconut Almond CAP 5%, Raspberry CAP 1.5%, Sweetener TFA .5%. This is a very dark juice and I have to rewick and rebuild frequently but it is oh so good and this one is worth it.

 

[AndriaD]

I really like the Dragons Blood recipe. The flavor in the Air is great but the coil life with it is not acceptable. I may have to come up with another flavor for that tank.

I do have another that is my evening decadence vape. Chocolate Raspberry CAP 11%, Chocolate Coconut Almond CAP 5%, Raspberry CAP 5%, Sweetener TFA .5%. This is a very dark juice and I have to rewick and rebuild frequently but it is oh so good and this one is worth it.

One thing I've started doing with the gunking juice is that I sometimes use it in an RDA instead of my usual kayfun. It still gunks, but it's easier to deal with, not having to drain the tank. So far I like the Magma the best, but the slight leak gets tiresome. I have a derringer on the way. I'm really only interested in RDAs that have decent wells, so I don't have to "re-drip" so often. Until I can come up with a strawberry & cream recipe that I like as well as what I have now, which doesn't gunk, the RDA sometimes gives me a break from worrying about wasting a whole tankful of great juice.

Andria

 

[dannyv45]

Sweetener more then creams but creams do have a coil gunking factor as well. the higher percent used the worst the gunk.

 

[VNeil]

It still gunks, but it's easier to deal with, not having to drain the tank.

The Kanger subtank I mentioned above can be rewicked and recoiled without emptying the tank. However, it does seem to have the problem I mentioned above, with excessive gunking????

 

[KattMamma]

Maybe there is something about kanger -- mine is a subtank mini, and I've had this one about a month (had one before that but it was defective!)

I am determined to get more than 2 days from a stock coil. I already knew that sweet juices would kill a coil quicker. Started getting suspicious of creams/custards too. But the sweet creamy/custard juices are my faves!!

Still experimenting, but I am really starting to believe that turning up the wattage some will extend the coil life.

I am also considering buying some liquid stevia (I read on ECF to get the rebaudiana kind) for my juice recipes that need sweetener. I read up on stevia a long time ago, and it is so much sweeter than any other natural or artificial sweetener that you only have to use a microscopic amount. The liquid stevia is already in a PG base. I figure maybe the smaller amount of sweetener should help with the gunk factor.

 

[dannyv45]

Still experimenting, but I am really starting to believe that turning up the wattage some will extend the coil life.

Turning up the wattage will kill a coil faster.

 

[KattMamma]

Turning up the wattage will kill a coil faster.

I agree to some extent - but I was only getting 2 days out of stock coils before I turned up the wattage. Now I'm getting 4 days. More testing needed for me to be fully convinced, but I think it has to do with the sugars making more gunk at lower wattage. I don't know how many times I'll need to repeat my experiment to be fully convinced, but I do know that 2 days on a coil that costs me roughly $4 is not going to cut it, so I am trying anything.

Now for those who vape juices without lots of sugar and get a week from a coil at high wattages, but 10 days at lower wattages (or similar results), I agree - it makes sense!! But I think the coil-killing sweet juices that kill the coil in a few days may need to be treated differently. And I may try reducing sugars (or using stevia) but I LOVE sweet juices, so I have to find what works for me.

 

[dannyv45]

Turning up the heat will only help after the coil has already gunked up. You should only turn it up after the vapor deminishes. For instance the first 2 days run it lower and the coil will not gunk up as fast after 2 days the vapor diminishes so turn it up a little. After 2 more days the vapor diminishes again so turn it up a little more and you now got 2 extra days out of it for a total of 6 days.

Ever think of getting into RBA's. Rebuilding RBA's is far cheaper (A few cents vs $4) then needing to buy coil assemblies and most RBA's produce far better flavor then cartos, clearos or tanks.

 

[AndriaD]

I agree with Danny; abandoning the very-clean tobacco-flavored juices and going entirely with sweet and sometimes creamy juices meant I could no longer use cartos at all, and the coils in any "stock coils" are generally much the same, they just won't handle gunk; they're just too small. With rebuildables, you're in control of your vape experience, you aren't wasting money on disposables, and if it gunks, it's usually a matter of re-wicking/dry-burning, not replacing the entire coil -- I generally get months out of my self-built coils, though I could never get more than days out of stock coils or cartos. Sure, I replace wicks and dry-burn every couple days, but I don't need to replace the coil unless it starts giving me a "hot metal" taste even with a fresh wick -- which doesn't happen very often.

Andria

 

[KattMamma]

I would love it if my hands could do small work like that so I could build (or at least rewick) coils, but they just refuse to cooperate.

THANK YOU @dannyv45 for the explanation - that makes good sense!! Parts of the puzzle are starting to fall into place, but still a few little pieces missing... mostly, that until I turned up the heat, it wasn't so much loss of flavor (although I did experience that) -- the doggone things also stopped wicking!! Like the cotton was getting clogged up or something.

On my next new coil I will try what you described - start lower then start turning up as performance drops.

 

[OcalaFlGuy]

Katt, though I have done a few micro coils, I'll quickly admit winding is fiddly.

They sell coils already made, just the wire and wick inside. That's the really fiddly part. At least with Evod-ProTank
coils just taking the assembly apart and installing an already made coil would be A LOT less fiddly.

And those pre-made coils are Cheap too.

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

 

[AndriaD]

I would love it if my hands could do small work like that so I could build (or at least rewick) coils, but they just refuse to cooperate.

THANK YOU @dannyv45 for the explanation - that makes good sense!! Parts of the puzzle are starting to fall into place, but still a few little pieces missing... mostly, that until I turned up the heat, it wasn't so much loss of flavor (although I did experience that) -- the doggone things also stopped wicking!! Like the cotton was getting clogged up or something.

On my next new coil I will try what you described - start lower then start turning up as performance drops.

I did have a very hard time with it at first, just seeing the silly things was a major challenge -- I got one of those magnifying visor things from Harbor Freight, and it really made all the difference at first, when it felt like my hands were at least 50% too large to do something like this -- but every time I did it, it got a little easier. Now I don't even bother with the visor, just make sure I have a good bright light, and count the wraps carefully as I go; the other majorly effective tool I got was a 3" vise, which my husband fastened to a short length of 2x6; I put the coil base in the vise, so that while I'm mounting the coil, that thing doesn't go anywhere, it stays right where it is and makes the entire exercise much easier.

I was terrified of it, absolutely certain that there was no way I could do such a thing... for quite a few months. But my curiosity was piqued, at all the reports of terrific vaping to be had from a Kayfun. The first one I wrapped was just to see if I could actually, physically do it; I didn't know that you're supposed to flame the wire beforehand, so when i finished, and let go of it, it was about an inch wide. But I just kept reading, and looking at pics and videos. I had to start learning on T3S and Mini PT II heads, very tiny; compared to those, a kayfun is a sweet piece of cake.

 

[Mr.Mann]

This seems to be pretty simple to me: sweetener. Not all creams can be lumped together, but I've yet to meet a sweetener that doesn't need to be handled lightly to avoid, or rather, minimize build-up.

 

[KattMamma]

Thanks guys - I should have been more clear (but I'm always reluctant to give personal details) - rheumatoid arthritis pretty much makes that kind of tiny work impossible. Now the prewound coils look interesting, because I have wondered if I might be able to just do the wick part, but I'm still skeptical.

I guess if I get frustrated enough with these stock coils I will have to give the rebuilding a try -- worse case I waste a few bucks and a little time, but I bet I have a better appreciation for those who make them and I might even learn something.