There are many nowadays that don't actually read what is written but read what they want to read Rose. That's those who can read of course.
Who are the cloud chasers kidding ?
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That's the sort of thing right there exactly that makes a reader think you're picking a fight. I was with the OP right up until, "We are a fringe group and some of us have now split off into some sort of militia styled group of people.". The intention of that sort of statement is difficult to misconstrue. As is your implication that you think you're smarter than others participating in the thread with your superior reading comprehension.
Well. Good luck with that, I suppose. I'm not sure how far it will get you, but I do wish you luck with it.
Well I must say this is a very interesting thread!
While I am what we (most) consider a "normal" vaper my oldest son is into cloud chasing, as many are these days.
Of course they (the smoke machines if you will) use much lower nic concentrations like 6mg/ml, they use a lot more liquid overall in order to produce the increased clouds. Simple chemistry physics!
After reading this entire thread and reading the OP as well as the many replies / opinions, here are some of my takes on this based on theories, hypothesis, as well as facts.
Essentially the components of the juices we all use now contain nicotine in varying strengths, VG, PG, Flavorings, and an assortment of minor other chemicals to make the flavorings soluble.
Lets digress here a bit and look at some facts:
USP VG and PG are considered as safe for human consumption in their native liquid form, and if ingested have been proven not to cause any harmful effects.
The same applies to FDA approved food grade flavorings.
Of course we all know about the key ingredient, nicotine; no need to really expound here, we all know it is a deadly poison in it's 100% form, it is addictive, etc., etc.
The issue or concern, or debate is when these chemicals are combined, and vaporized and inhaled are they harmful?
Naturally to answer this with any accuracy requires a lot of laboratory testing using a fixed control, meaning all components individually must be of the nature that they are safe for human consumption individually.
The issues arrive when the components are combined and are vaporized, as they are no longer being orally ingested, they are being inhaled and absorbed through our respiratory systems.
Do heavy concentrations of vaporized VG or PG pose respiratory health issues?
Currently there is no conclusive data to prove yes or no CONCLUSIVELY!
When the above is combined with flavorings and some of the solvents used in them how does this add to the above?
Of course this adds to the equation as when combining everything necessary to make e-liquids the compound changes chemically.
IMHO these answers will take years, many years to determine but the facts are that even with all the unknown data, vaping with nicotine is far less harmful to the users, and essentially has none of the negative effects on the non users around vapers in comparison to cigarette smokers or cigar smokers (analog cloud chasers) and the effects of second hand smoke.
If my son wants to burn through 30ml of juice in a couple of days so he can produce clouds, well ok, his choice.
He stopped smoking (has asthma) and since he has been vaping, and now cloud chasing he virtually has no asthmatic issues, go figure....
Personally I like my mechanical mods, my Provari', and PERSONALLY could care less about making artificial cloud formations in my living room (little levity there).
I don't smoke anymore, I have not had bronchitis in over four years now and a yup I get my nicotine too!
I could go on and on, such as High Fructose Corn Sweeteners, vs. Table Sugar, neither are really good for you, alas finally it has been found out that HFCS is a whole lot worse for us than table sugar...
After smoking a box of 25 cigars a week, might I add like $250.00 a box cigars or more, yaking my lungs out every morning, I am now healthier vaping.
If you want to form rain clouds in your man or lady cave, whatever, that is your right as an American, even if it is found out that the amount of VG or PG vaporized COULD cause some health issues, but I can almost assuredly say it is still far safer than all of the carcinogens and tar yielded from smoking.
If I want to ride my off road ATV at 100 MPH, that is my right, I also have to assume the risks associated in doing so !
It's fine to do research to to try and conclude what the risks are of things; creates jobs, and ultimately helps us to be more informed consumers, users, etc.
What I don't want is my government telling me what I can or cannot do to my own body!
Especially if it is not harming anyone else!
Case and point, if I drive my ATV on my property at 100mph, with no helmet, and no one else is around and I become a marker on my oak tree, hey it is not going to hurt that tree, or any other human being!
Now if I do that in an area where I can harm others, like on a public street; This becomes a problem / risk for other people.
(The above not being the best analogy as in comparing Cloud Chasers vs. regular vapers and or smoking vs. vaping , I think you all get my point).
I am a true blue red blooded American, have served my country proudly, but I do not want my government telling me when to wipe my rear!
We as a nation have a lot more problems than worrying about vaping!
IMHO
I need a vape!
While I am what we (most) consider a "normal" vaper my oldest son is into cloud chasing, as many are these days.
Of course they (the smoke machines if you will) use much lower nic concentrations like 6mg/ml, they use a lot more liquid overall in order to produce the increased clouds. Simple chemistry physics!
After reading this entire thread and reading the OP as well as the many replies / opinions, here are some of my takes on this based on theories, hypothesis, as well as facts.
Essentially the components of the juices we all use now contain nicotine in varying strengths, VG, PG, Flavorings, and an assortment of minor other chemicals to make the flavorings soluble.
Lets digress here a bit and look at some facts:
USP VG and PG are considered as safe for human consumption in their native liquid form, and if ingested have been proven not to cause any harmful effects.
The same applies to FDA approved food grade flavorings.
Of course we all know about the key ingredient, nicotine; no need to really expound here, we all know it is a deadly poison in it's 100% form, it is addictive, etc., etc.
The issue or concern, or debate is when these chemicals are combined, and vaporized and inhaled are they harmful?
Naturally to answer this with any accuracy requires a lot of laboratory testing using a fixed control, meaning all components individually must be of the nature that they are safe for human consumption individually.
The issues arrive when the components are combined and are vaporized, as they are no longer being orally ingested, they are being inhaled and absorbed through our respiratory systems.
Do heavy concentrations of vaporized VG or PG pose respiratory health issues?
Currently there is no conclusive data to prove yes or no CONCLUSIVELY!
When the above is combined with flavorings and some of the solvents used in them how does this add to the above?
Of course this adds to the equation as when combining everything necessary to make e-liquids the compound changes chemically.
IMHO these answers will take years, many years to determine but the facts are that even with all the unknown data, vaping with nicotine is far less harmful to the users, and essentially has none of the negative effects on the non users around vapers in comparison to cigarette smokers or cigar smokers (analog cloud chasers) and the effects of second hand smoke.
If my son wants to burn through 30ml of juice in a couple of days so he can produce clouds, well ok, his choice.
He stopped smoking (has asthma) and since he has been vaping, and now cloud chasing he virtually has no asthmatic issues, go figure....
Personally I like my mechanical mods, my Provari', and PERSONALLY could care less about making artificial cloud formations in my living room (little levity there).
I don't smoke anymore, I have not had bronchitis in over four years now and a yup I get my nicotine too!
I could go on and on, such as High Fructose Corn Sweeteners, vs. Table Sugar, neither are really good for you, alas finally it has been found out that HFCS is a whole lot worse for us than table sugar...
After smoking a box of 25 cigars a week, might I add like $250.00 a box cigars or more, yaking my lungs out every morning, I am now healthier vaping.
If you want to form rain clouds in your man or lady cave, whatever, that is your right as an American, even if it is found out that the amount of VG or PG vaporized COULD cause some health issues, but I can almost assuredly say it is still far safer than all of the carcinogens and tar yielded from smoking.
If I want to ride my off road ATV at 100 MPH, that is my right, I also have to assume the risks associated in doing so !
It's fine to do research to to try and conclude what the risks are of things; creates jobs, and ultimately helps us to be more informed consumers, users, etc.
What I don't want is my government telling me what I can or cannot do to my own body!
Especially if it is not harming anyone else!
Case and point, if I drive my ATV on my property at 100mph, with no helmet, and no one else is around and I become a marker on my oak tree, hey it is not going to hurt that tree, or any other human being!
Now if I do that in an area where I can harm others, like on a public street; This becomes a problem / risk for other people.
(The above not being the best analogy as in comparing Cloud Chasers vs. regular vapers and or smoking vs. vaping , I think you all get my point).
I am a true blue red blooded American, have served my country proudly, but I do not want my government telling me when to wipe my rear!
We as a nation have a lot more problems than worrying about vaping!
IMHO
I need a vape!
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Can't have all this anger around. It's time to bring in the heavies. Relax. Enjoy.
... sorry for the off-topic. Hope it helps, tho!
... sorry for the off-topic. Hope it helps, tho!
Very adorable!!!...actually if we are going there. A friend showed me this vid, albeit a bit heavier. 
The kids do as good if not better a job than the original. I love seeing kids get a musical education.
The kids do as good if not better a job than the original. I love seeing kids get a musical education.
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As others have already pointed out to you, I think you missed the title. The OP very clearly directed his/her comments at cloud chasers with "Who are the cloud chasers kidding?"
Calling cloud chasing "silly" is fine if that's your opinion. I think lots of things are silly, however, I think one of the reasons that some people are generally offended by some of your comments in the other thread to which you are referring ("The cloud chasing fad") is that you seem to have a condescending, superior attitude when you talk about cloud chasers or those who disagree with you. "Cloud chasing kids" is clearly designed to mock and disparage another group of people; to dismiss them out of hand. Learning to disagree without being disagreeable is important, as this forum is supposed to be a place where people are able to have a conversation and disagree with one another without resorting to what seem to come close to personal attacks on a group of people. It's one thing to say that you don't like cloud chasing (or agree with the decisions of others who do it) and even list good reasons why you prefer to stay away from it (e.g., safety, learning curve, or it simply not being your thing). It's another thing entirely to mock an entire group of people, and you should expect negative responses. One cannot simply toss out insults and condescension and then be surprised when they (as you say below) "incite" others.
In the other thread, I believe you referred to cloud chasers as those "dirty diaper" people (or something to that effect), because you saw one video where one guy used what you thought looked like a dirty diaper to hold his hot mod (people asked you for the link to the video, but I don't believe you provided it). While that person was certainly not vaping safely and should be called out for it (not just for his own safety, but for promoting that sort of unsafe activity), lumping every cloud chaser into a group with him is both unfair and inflammatory. The words one uses to describe a group of people are important.
The title was clearly designed to get people worked up because it attacks a segment of the community. It's really as simple as that. What I see in most of the responses, however, is not people who are "worked up" (and perhaps this is just a difference of semantics). I see a lot of people who are asking the OP to explain his/her view and/or countering his/her comments with their own. Is there anything wrong with that? Further, given your responses in this thread and others, I have no doubt that if someone wrote a similar title seemingly attacking something that you enjoy, you'd have a very quick and similar response to those we are seeing from cloud chasers in this thread. The title choice was poor. In fact, there are likely a few people who might agree with the OP if the title wasn't such a turn off, so it's getting the sort of responses I'd expect it to get from some people.
Your use of the phrase "worked up" aside, I think a lot of people who are not cloud chasers are responding with negative comments because they don't like the idea of someone trying to divide vapers into us vs them groups. We also see people who seem to agree with you that cloud chasing is not for them (to the effect of "to each their own, but it's not my thing"), but they are not making the same inflammatory comments, so the responses to them are not negative.
This is a forum. People are free to express their views, especially if they disagree. The simplest answer to "why get so worked up" is that they choose to have their views heard, just as you claim that right (or, rather, privilege, as this forum is the private property of the owner) in this thread and other threads where you post your opinions.
Thread titles mean everything when you are attempting to argue that the OP was not directing his/her comments at cloud chasers. Certainly you understand that. It's about context. That's why people (including me) have replied to your comment that "OP didn't attack the cloud chasers" and pointed you to the title of the post. The OP certainly did intend for this thread to be all about cloud chasers with a title like that, and he should be called out for it by people who disagree with him. Otherwise, the entire conversation is one-sided and this stops being an open forum.
Now you're splitting hairs. "Draw a response" vs "incite others"? For one thing, I don't see anyone here (including you) who has been "incited" to anything other than expressing their own opinions. I can't believe you would have a problem with that, because you seem to have no problem expressing your opinions here and in other threads. That's the intended use of a web forum. Further, I think the OP knew exactly what kind of responses he/she was going to get (i.e., "I am probably going to get a lot of negative feedback on this thread"). People are going to express themselves. That's the way it goes. You seem (in other comments) to be arguing that people shouldn't be expressing a different opinion than that of the OP (see your own comments above, re: "why get worked up").
There are plenty of people who simply don't like the idea of dividing people into little camps, especially if they all enjoy vaping in general and all have similar goals (in the case of the vaping community, to be free to vape without the government banning the activity or making it so expensive that it is effectively banned). Many of them replied to you in your own thread. But, so what if cloud chasers are defending themselves? Are they not allowed to do that? Should their opinions be disregarded simply because they have a dog in the fight? If that's the case, you're opinions should also be disregarded, as you seem to want all cloud chasing to stop, so you also have a dog in this fight (a fight, by the way, that exists only in the minds of those who seem to want to impose their will on others). Should they instead simply let the negative comments go unanswered? I don't think that would make for a very good forum at all. In fact, it's the antithesis of an open forum.
You're generalizing far too much here. There's nothing much more to say in response, other than the fact that most people don't chase clouds. Yes, cloud chasers get the majority of the attention because they post videos and have their own events, but they are still a minority. You are seeing what you want to see in order to support your own opinion. It's confirmation bias.
Is it a problem that vaping is no longer merely a smoking cessation method? Did vapers who were not smokers miss a memo? Are they not allowed into our little "club"? I'm a former smoker, but I'd never tell someone who wasn't a smoker that they shouldn't be doing something, especially when I'm doing it. If your argument is that they don't need to do it, then I say so what? There are plenty of activities in which people take part purely for enjoyment and not a life or death need. Sky diving, skiing, hunting, dancing... the list is huge (and I do none of the things I've listed). Who are you or I to tell people that their choices are invalid? You can, of course, argue that you are merely expressing your opinion that vaping should only be a smoking cessation method, but you cannot argue (as you seem to be doing in one of the quotes I've posted above) that cloud chasers cannot comment on your opinions, and you should expect them to. Saying, "[It's] funny how all the people defending 'cloud chasers' are more than likely ones themselves," is not a valid defense of your opinions. It's simply an attempt to silence others.
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Battery performance is how a cell performs. NOT what's printed on the label be it from a mfr, reseller or retailer.
Battery safety has little if nothing to do with a label. It's all about cell performance, treatment and care.
This goes with all electronics. Though it's more important with any component that stores and discharges incredible energy density such as a super capacitor or lithium cell.
Some of the people you're belittling with your statements come from backgrounds with a deeper understanding of this than it seems you realize.
For example; I've been rebuilding packs of more dangerous chemistry with much higher output capabilities that were factory created in configurations frowned upon here as long, if not longer than bad has been studying cells for vaping.
Example;
That pack never peeked at its continuous discharge rating yet one cell vented in under 5 minutes. So I rebuilt it as a 2s pack instead of 3s removing the damaged cell.
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Battery performance is how a cell performs. NOT what's printed on the label be it from a mfr, reseller or retailer.
Battery safety has little if nothing to do with a label. It's all about cell performance, treatment and care.
This goes with all electronics. Though it's more important with any component that stores and discharges incredible energy density such as a super capacitor or lithium cell.
Some of the people you're belittling with your statements come from backgrounds with a deeper understanding of this than it seems you realize.
For example; I've been rebuilding packs of more dangerous chemistry with much higher output capabilities that were factory created in configurations frowned upon here as long, if not longer than bad has been studying cells for vaping.
Example;
That pack never peeked at its continuous discharge rating yet one cell vented in under 5 minutes. So I rebuilt it as a 2s pack instead of 3s removing the damaged cell.
Huh? lost. If I am belittling anyone, it is the poster(s) who have been on the forum less than a month yet they call themselves "Senior Members" who I have also witnessed harassing a member with snippy little comments. The harassed member happens to be one of the most helpful and knowledgeable people that I know on this subject.
Anyone who has experience and something to say in a way that does not aim at irking others or waving around their e-peen is OK in my book.
This site has always been cool that is how we roll around here.
So, if you are not that I don't have a problem with you.
I think you misread my intent or I did not clarify it. Apologies if you personally felt offended. I don't know you from Adam, have not seen you being an ... and have no reason to call you out.
Maybe you might like reading some of the other things I have said here to realize I am not a total hole.
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I think there are a lot of closet cloud chasers, who become angry when they feel their silly obsession is being mocked...
Yes, what's your point?
OK...fair enough but did you even chuckle at the .... paste?
My old techie eyes are getting bad and I am guilty of the occasional tldr space out.
Really though, it is not JUST Provari users that start these kinds of posts. Do you want me to find some examples? It is easy to do.
I think you were generalizing. Lots of us Provarinati have other mods too and enjoy them. I just don't see the sense of the Provarinati hating here.
Jeebuz..I type like a mammal with no opposable thumbs...sry edits are correcting inane typos,,,
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Not offended. Simply misread and wanted to clarify. Thanks for returning the favor. You're okay in my book.
For the record. I did chuckle at the .... paste.
Other mods? Blasphemy. The only other mod allowed is a PV-1. Haven't you read the rules?...
I like you too!!! And now I know I have another go to battery person. Which will come in mighty handy once I start tinkering.
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Yeah but HarleyBarbie got the prettiest purple Reo today and now I want one....
I've already made my points, so I'll simply refer you to those again. Your comments tend to come off as rude and condescending in this thread and in others, and it's is my opinion that they are simply not helpful. They seem to be designed to provoke a negative response, even from those who might agree with you generally (the so-called "closet cloud chasers" you refer to, many of whom simply disagree with your negative approach and don't want to be associated with you -- you write them off with a negative tone and condescension, but they'll always be around, just as you will). Words matter. Context matters. And, (especially) tone matters.
Regarding obsessions, I think you are the one with an obsession here. You seem to be obsessed with trolling threads and posting condescending comments directed toward (1) others who do not agree with your position and (2) an activity that doesn't harm you personally. I've outlined that in my other comments to which you have not replied, so I can only assume that your condescending tone is intentional and designed only to provoke others. My opinion is that it's rather silly to spend time trying to rile people up using what amount to insults, but, to each his own, I suppose.
Anyway, I don't feel that any further exchange between you and I will be fruitful, so I'll end this by wishing you well in your endeavors.
Ah thank goodnesss!!! Some levity! I thought it was time to send in the monks...
Thats why I vape 2.4 nic If there is a Health danger to Vaping that is unknown I don't think it will be the nic. So Inhaling less E-Liquid in a day at 2.4 nic as oppose to .6 nic reduces that danger by my logic But young adults think they are invincible[I did ]. Also a few years of cloud chasing is probably better health wise then analogs. Cloud chasing is maybe just a fad. There will probably always be a sub set of Vapers that do it. Its small potatoes by and large in the Vaping Community as a whole
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