WHO repeats false and misleading fear mongering claims about e-cigs, urges vaping bans everywhere

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Nate760

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This is why I get so disturbed by all of the vapers who say they won't even bother with such people...

That guy would've continued going around ranting his nonsense, potentially discouraging many people from trying electronic cigarettes.
Now, after being given a healthy dose of "shut the hell up" he may just decide that he should shut the hell up.

And if you believe in miracles, it might have even changed his mind.

When people make wildly inaccurate statements, on any topic, they should be called out on it. I've never been a great believer in the idea that one should let BS go unchallenged in the name of politeness or civility. There's nothing impolite or uncivil about correcting someone who's wrong. It doesn't have to be done loudly, or brashly, or with the intent to embarrass, but it should be done nonetheless.
 

AndriaD

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My major concern about the WHO's and CDC's fear-mongering lies about e-cigs is that these are organizations that are SUPPOSED to be looking out for the medical good of basically everyone on the planet. Now that they are lying, in a very public and quite transparent and easily proven manner, about e-cigs, how are we supposed to take ANYTHING they say seriously? They've apparently never read or heard of The Boy Who Cried Wolf, and so have no familiarity with what happened when that wolf actually showed up.

It's kinda funny; twice now, in all these campaigns against e-cigs, I have seen very clear parellels with children's morality fables: The Emperor's New Clothes, and now The Boy Who Cried Wolf. Does no one read or tell those stories to their children anymore? Have those in charge just plain forgotten them, or the very important truths they convey?

If you lie, people stop taking you seriously, and eventually they just stop listening to anything you say. The WHO and CDC really need to be told this, as forcefully as possible -- if they want to continue being taken seriously, they need to tell The Truth, The Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth.

Andria
 

Nate760

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It may not be apparent today to anyone except us, but as time goes on, it will become more obvious to everyone just how morally abominable the anti-e-cig antics of the WHO/FDA/CDC/ALA/ACS/etc. really were. History will view them (correctly) as organizations that utterly betrayed their own stated mission and stated principles and bent over backwards to protect the tobacco industry and keep as many people smoking cigarettes as they possibly could. When you get right down to it, what they're doing today isn't all that different from what Big tobacco was doing 50-60 years ago. Except. of course, that the tobacco companies never claimed to be the saintly guardians of public health.
 
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Kent C

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It may not be apparent today to anyone except us, but as time goes on, it will become more obvious to everyone just how morally abominable the anti-e-cig antics of the WHO/FDA/CDC/ALA/ACS/etc. really were. History will view them (correctly) as organizations that utterly betrayed their own stated mission and stated principles and bent over backwards to protect the tobacco industry and keep as many people smoking cigarettes as they possibly could. When you get right down to it, what they're doing today isn't all that different from what Big Tobacco was doing 50-60 years ago. Except. of course, that the tobacco companies never claimed to be the saintly guardians of public health.

I would hope that would be true (re:bold), but revisionist history is rampant. All the ills of progressivism and the New Deal are never mentioned in mainstream media - in fact they're praised.

Venona project - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Again, not for continued discussion here :)
 

Berylanna

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My major concern about the WHO's and CDC's fear-mongering lies about e-cigs is that these are organizations that are SUPPOSED to be looking out for the medical good of basically everyone on the planet. Now that they are lying, in a very public and quite transparent and easily proven manner, about e-cigs, how are we supposed to take ANYTHING they say seriously? They've apparently never read or heard of The Boy Who Cried Wolf, and so have no familiarity with what happened when that wolf actually showed up.

It's kinda funny; twice now, in all these campaigns against e-cigs, I have seen very clear parellels with children's morality fables: The Emperor's New Clothes, and now The Boy Who Cried Wolf. Does no one read or tell those stories to their children anymore? Have those in charge just plain forgotten them, or the very important truths they convey?

If you lie, people stop taking you seriously, and eventually they just stop listening to anything you say. The WHO and CDC really need to be told this, as forcefully as possible -- if they want to continue being taken seriously, they need to tell The Truth, The Whole Truth, and Nothing But The Truth.

Andria


The Boy who Cried Wolf scares the HELL out of me wrt CDC, WHO, and State/County health departments. I've already seen a whooping cough breakout in my grandson's preschool. It turned out OK but led to a lot of unneeded antibiotics being given to kids because nobody could come in with a cough if they weren't on antibiotics until the even was over with, and parents could not take time off work. What if it was MERS or SARS or avian flu and all the vapers and friends and families of vapers have become cynical about public health workers?
 

AndriaD

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The Boy who Cried Wolf scares the HELL out of me wrt CDC, WHO, and State/County health departments. I've already seen a whooping cough breakout in my grandson's preschool. It turned out OK but led to a lot of unneeded antibiotics being given to kids because nobody could come in with a cough if they weren't on antibiotics until the even was over with, and parents could not take time off work. What if it was MERS or SARS or avian flu and all the vapers and friends and families of vapers have become cynical about public health workers?

Exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of, with The Boy Who Cried Wolf -- what if there really was some godawful pandemic breaking out? The WHO and CDC go online and on camera telling everyone how to deal with it -- and nobody listens to any of it, because hey, those who are supposedly looking out for humanity's health have gone on public record with transparent lies that benefit no one except Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, and the gov't itself. So the pandemic spreads and humanity is eradicated -- which could maybe have been avoided, if our supposed life-guards hadn't shown themselves to be complete charlatans.

I really don't think they've thought their e-cig stance through to its inevitable conclusions -- that those organizations are nothing but pimps and panders and liars, with not a single thought for the actual health of humanity, so who cares what they say. They have compromised their own "high ground" with this stance, and ALL of us will reap the whirlwind because of it.

Andria
 

Kent C

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Exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of, with The Boy Who Cried Wolf -- what if there really was some godawful pandemic breaking out? The WHO and CDC go online and on camera telling everyone how to deal with it -- and nobody listens to any of it, because hey, those who are supposedly looking out for humanity's health have gone on public record with transparent lies that benefit no one except Big Tobacco, Big Pharma, and the gov't itself. So the pandemic spreads and humanity is eradicated -- which could maybe have been avoided, if our supposed life-guards hadn't shown themselves to be complete charlatans.

I really don't think they've thought their e-cig stance through to its inevitable conclusions -- that those organizations are nothing but pimps and panders and liars, with not a single thought for the actual health of humanity, so who cares what they say. They have compromised their own "high ground" with this stance, and ALL of us will reap the whirlwind because of it.

Andria

And despite all the other failures and lies, this is where regulatory agencies really fail. FEMA during Katrina, eg. Also several heavy floods of the Mississippi over the decades. LA police chief, Darrell Gates withdraws all police units during the Rodney King incidents leaving fireman without protection. There are some successes but their failures are legendary. Yet some clamor for more gov't intervention :facepalm:
 

Nate760

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I really don't think they've thought their e-cig stance through to its inevitable conclusions

Nor do they have any desire to. These organizations are far more concerned with maintaining their funding levels and justifying their own existence than they are in actually promoting public health. They see e-cigs and vaping as a threat on both levels, since 1) a good chunk of their funding comes from cigarette taxes and/or the pharma companies that make traditional NRTs, and 2) if there's a drastic reduction in smoking, and thus smoking-related illness, people like the ALA and ACS will lose one of their main reasons for existing.
 

Berylanna

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Nor do they have any desire to. These organizations are far more concerned with maintaining their funding levels and justifying their own existence than they are in actually promoting public health. They see e-cigs and vaping as a threat on both levels, since 1) a good chunk of their funding comes from cigarette taxes and/or the pharma companies that make traditional NRTs, and 2) if there's a drastic reduction in smoking, and thus smoking-related illness, people like the ALA and ACS will lose one of their main reasons for existing.

I wish! I don't think that's actually true, except of the tobacco sub-groups in each org, which might be a tail wagging the dog. (With collusion from their respective CEO's) -- however, it's the CDC and WHO that scare me because the ALA et al are charities but the CDC and WHO are the top international guardians for infectious diseases, and I've taken enough biology classes to be a lot more scared of those than the average person is.
 

Kent C

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I wish! I don't think that's actually true, except of the tobacco sub-groups in each org, which might be a tail wagging the dog. (With collusion from their respective CEO's) -- however, it's the CDC and WHO that scare me because the ALA et al are charities but the CDC and WHO are the top international guardians for infectious diseases, and I've taken enough biology classes to be a lot more scared of those than the average person is.

I'm guessing 'those' that you're a lot more scared, than the average person, are 'infectious diseases' rather than the CDC and WHO - the 'guardians' of them. The WHO hasn't done so well with malaria, as noted above. One of 5 main infectious diseases listed on their page for those diseases. Their effectual ban (a bit like Bill's comment re: >99.9% ban on ecigs) on DDT by basically withholding WHO/UN funds for those countries who don't comply, has resulted in tens of millions of cases of malaria and millions of deaths in countries where before the ban were virtually 'malaria-free'. Some countries have decided to go against WHO and the UN, losing that money - which in many cases is a mere transfer of funds to a dictatorship who has looks at malaria as 'thinning the herd'. Those countries who have readopted the use of DDT, and foregone the WHO/UN funds, have seen their malaria stats return to near zero.

That said, the WHO and the UN has done wonders in the fight against AIDS, having created for the first time, a 'fast track' from the FDA where the runway to get drugs approved is 7-10 years long and millions of dollars, to where AIDS patients who sometimes don't have that long to wait, get drugs (with certain potentials - and some controversies in that as well) that they would never had had a chance to get.

Heart patients (and those with other diseases - too many to list) on the other hand are still on the tarmac. I've had a few biology classes myself :)
 

AndriaD

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Nor do they have any desire to. These organizations are far more concerned with maintaining their funding levels and justifying their own existence than they are in actually promoting public health. They see e-cigs and vaping as a threat on both levels, since 1) a good chunk of their funding comes from cigarette taxes and/or the pharma companies that make traditional NRTs, and 2) if there's a drastic reduction in smoking, and thus smoking-related illness, people like the ALA and ACS will lose one of their main reasons for existing.

I understand all that; what I don't understand at all is the short-sightedness of those who ostensibly are brilliant -- they're willing to risk losing ALL credibility, for the sake of MONEY? That isn't brilliant, it's rank stupidity, it's criminal malfeasance.

Andria
 

Marc411

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Reports from the United States and the United Kingdom nonetheless indicate that the number of reported incidents involving nicotine poisoning has risen substantially as the use of ENDS has increased.

The more I read this information the more I want to know who is going to stand up and ask for the statistical data to support these claims. The information in these documents is anecdotal at best but the authors are not challenged to support their position. The majority of the published documents have unsupported data. When is the public, the press and the government going to require hard evidence?
 

Nate760

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The more I read this information the more I want to know who is going to stand up and ask for the statistical data to support these claims. The information in these documents is anecdotal at best but the authors are not challenged to support their position. The majority of the published documents have unsupported data. When is the public, the press and the government going to require hard evidence?

The ANTZ are more than happy to uncritically accept anecdotal evidence so long as it can be used to paint vaping and vapers in an unfavorable light (case in point #1 being the "calls to poison control centers" thing). But if it's anecdotal evidence that says hundreds of thousands of people have successfully quit smoking because of e-cigs, then they're just as happy to reject it out of hand.
 

Berylanna

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The more I read this information the more I want to know who is going to stand up and ask for the statistical data to support these claims. The information in these documents is anecdotal at best but the authors are not challenged to support their position. The majority of the published documents have unsupported data. When is the public, the press and the government going to require hard evidence?

More likely calls to poison control centers have gone up drastically after the ANTZ went on Good Morning American and a bunch of other places and said you can die from one drop of e-liquid on your hand. (Wow, I'm probably up to 1000 lives already!)
 

Nate760

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More likely calls to poison control centers have gone up drastically after the ANTZ went on Good Morning American and a bunch of other places and said you can die from one drop of e-liquid on your hand. (Wow, I'm probably up to 1000 lives already!)

Ain't that the truth. I doubt if there's been a single day this year I didn't get e-liquid on my hands. Somehow, against all odds, I'm still alive.
 

DrMA

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Ain't that the truth. I doubt if there's been a single day this year I didn't get e-liquid on my hands. Somehow, against all odds, I'm still alive.

I DIY my juice and routinely taste small drops of new concoctions to adjust flavoring. Still alive and kicking after 3 years and experienced no ill effects from my experimenting.
 

bigdancehawk

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The Boy who Cried Wolf scares the HELL out of me wrt CDC, WHO, and State/County health departments. I've already seen a whooping cough breakout in my grandson's preschool. It turned out OK but led to a lot of unneeded antibiotics being given to kids because nobody could come in with a cough if they weren't on antibiotics until the even was over with, and parents could not take time off work. What if it was MERS or SARS or avian flu and all the vapers and friends and families of vapers have become cynical about public health workers?

I don't want to derail the thread, but I thought the vaccine was required by law for preschoolers in most if not all states.
 

bigdancehawk

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The more I read this information the more I want to know who is going to stand up and ask for the statistical data to support these claims. The information in these documents is anecdotal at best but the authors are not challenged to support their position. The majority of the published documents have unsupported data. When is the public, the press and the government going to require hard evidence?

We've already seen enough fearmongering about e-cigarettes to conclude that most media outlets don't routinely demand or analyze evidence. They gladly reprint alarming press releases and the general public eats it up.
 
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