Who would you save? Strange question

[Zutankhamun]

Actually I already feel sad.

Are both Togo and Balto together? If I save one will the other die? Sad times.

“Don’t worry Balto, I’m coming back for you”

 

[sdennislee]

I’d go with Balto...





No wait, I’ve changed my mind. I’ll go for Togo.

The wise money is on Togo

 

[sdennislee]

Glad to see you knew them, not many people outside of Alaska do.

Both were heroes but Balto was the publicity hound, literally, while Togo ran the most treacherous stretch of the run in relative obscurity but in fairness it required the efforts from both and their mushers to save the victims.

The run also gave us the modern day Iditarod.

Now on to more important pursuits, I am behind in the Keep A Word, Drop A Word thread.

 

[stormjib]

I really think that any of us, if we came upon the scene of a car accident, for instance, would instinctively help a human, even at the expense of a canine....if the alternative was to watch the human die. Same thing, if we saw both a human child and a dog drowning, I think we'd grab the human, without thinking twice. I know I would. When the question is contemplated in the safety of one's house, with no sense of urgency, it doesn't necessarily reflect reactions in real-world situations. Would anyone save their dog and watch an infant die?

 

[stols001]

Well, my freako weird kid would! LOL he called, so I asked him. His lizard emotional brain went, "I don't like hypotheticals, and I hate to say it, but I'd probably save my dog first. I mean, I have a responsibility to the dog, I don't have a responsibility to the stranger." We argued for a bit. I told him that he'd better not have me dog sit, because in that situation I'd go for the human, even with the knowledge that his deep, lizard brain would want me to save the dog. He expressed that he understood my stance, but that he would be deeply disappointed, and I stated I understood his stance but I was deeply disappointed.

Since we're pals, I said, "That's okay kiddo, I think you are a total nut job but you aren't alone, 40% of the human race agrees with you, Good thing it's a hypothetical, but please don't bring your dog near burning buildings if you can help it."

He stated his answer made him feel bad, but that he had to be honest. I saluted him for his honestly, but told him I still believed it was the wrong answer and he said he didn't feel great about it, but that's probably what he would do..

I was pretty sure going in, because of his deep and abiding love for pets. He said probably not a cat or a fish, but that he felt dogs were intelligent enough to maybe beat out a human depending on the human. I repeated the discussion of the Rick and Morty episode.

It did make me feel good that at least I could discuss my opinion with someone who believed the alternate without being called a black and what animal killer.... although I think the kid may not like, want me to dog sit any time soon, but we remained civil.

We ended with the decision that we both hated hypotheticals, because they are not indicative of real life, but then the kid ruined it by stating even if it were not hypothetical, he'd probably save the dog. I indicated that if it were not hypothetical, I'd still go for the human, even if the human really sucked.

This is making me think I should not have pets, but I actually think I SHOULD have pets, because I treat them like what they are: pets.

Anna

 

[r77r7r]

Well, my freako weird kid would! LOL he called, so I asked him. His lizard emotional brain went, "I don't like hypotheticals, and I hate to say it, but I'd probably save my dog first. I mean, I have a responsibility to the dog, I don't have a responsibility to the stranger." We argued for a bit. I told him that he'd better not have me dog sit, because in that situation I'd go for the human, even with the knowledge that his deep, lizard brain would want me to save the dog. He expressed that he understood my stance, but that he would be deeply disappointed, and I stated I understood his stance but I was deeply disappointed.

Since we're pals, I said, "That's okay kiddo, I think you are a total nut job but you aren't alone, 40% of the human race agrees with you, Good thing it's a hypothetical, but please don't bring your dog near burning buildings if you can help it."

He stated his answer made him feel bad, but that he had to be honest. I saluted him for his honestly, but told him I still believed it was the wrong answer and he said he didn't feel great about it, but that's probably what he would do..

I was pretty sure going in, because of his deep and abiding love for pets. He said probably not a cat or a fish, but that he felt dogs were intelligent enough to maybe beat out a human depending on the human. I repeated the discussion of the Rick and Morty episode.

It did make me feel good that at least I could discuss my opinion with someone who believed the alternate without being called a black and what animal killer.... although I think the kid may not like, want me to dog sit any time soon, but we remained civil.

We ended with the decision that we both hated hypotheticals, because they are not indicative of real life, but then the kid ruined it by stating even if it were not hypothetical, he'd probably save the dog. I indicated that if it were not hypothetical, I'd still go for the human, even if the human really sucked.

This is making me think I should not have pets, but I actually think I SHOULD have pets, because I treat them like what they are: pets.

Anna

Good post. Me too.

 

[denali_41]

My dog without a doubt !!!
1 he is and would remain loyal
2.dog won't try to sue me or start some other stupid legal case against me for saving him

 

[kross8]

my dog, unless it was one of my beloved family/friends. (not all family is beloved) total stranger?,, depends on if i think they could & would grab/save my dog from danger at the same time.

pets are starting to outrank humans because many humans are too narcissistic/mean in general. a pet loves you no matter what you look like, smell like and regardless of your social standing.

 

[Zutankhamun]

Well, my freako weird kid would!

You’ve raised a good’un. Congrats!

To bring more scenarios into this doesn’t work. The question is what it is. You do have the safety of your home to consider and decide. You are not thrown into some stupid situation where you can now change all parameters to suit your agenda!

the choice is your dog and a stranger. I don’t keep pets but when I needed a companion and asked for help no one came. Why would they? Was my (parents) little boss cat by my side through thick and thin when I lived and recovered at home? For sure she was.
I’ll say it again. When I needed help, nobody came
I mean seriously. No one intervened, no witnesses came forward, no help. In fact the only people involved were the people who did it and their friends who stood around watching.

If I had a guard dog with me, would he have helped?
You bet your bottom dollar.
From personal experience not a single person has helped unless it be of economical (or otherwise) interest to them.

I wish one of you supposed do-gooders were there when I needed it. Lo and behold, I was by myself yet surrounded

 

[Jebbn]

Well, Ive been convinced! Ive changed my mind!
If Im ever in a situation where I have to be choosing between one of you guys or my dogs, Im going with the dogs.
In light of your own preference I just cant waste my time on you if the hypothetical ever became a real thing The risk of savng you isnt justified.
Hell, Id probably save a stray dog before one of you strangers. Nearly all our dogs have been rescues or adopted so I feel some compassion for the poor old neglected strays.

Unless of course, you are the mother or father of an infant or child standing nearby, or you are an infant or child. Then the dog gets the chop.

In the shineytis thread I joked I as going to get another dog, we did actually sign up for another greyhound a few days later. About 2-3months before hes pet ready.

 

[Zutankhamun]

Finally someone’s learnt, Jesus. This will take all day. Just gotta get the other one on board and we’re home free!

Hahaha

 

[kross8]

i dont think the 'pet' winning is much of surprise,,,our culture is I,, ME, Self, Iphone, selphies. when I was young you took pictures of friends, family, locations,, locations usually with the people with you. sure there are selfies with a group of people and they are fun to look at,, but overall the theme is too narcissistic imho

today's culture is all about celebrating yourself,, even if there is nothing to celebrate about you.. in a way its sad,, a photo of you taken by you without friends, family or even your pet. there are very few photos of me in general,, I dont like being the subject matter,,-I have managed to 'disappear' for the most part,, but I adore the photos of my family and friends.

the pic in my profile was an unplanned photo my husband took of me on our way out the door to celebrate our 24th a couple of years ago.

 

[Letitia]

It is to be expected that narcissism is on the rise...started when kids started getting trophies for losing and parents quit saying "I said no, end of discussion".

 

[stols001]

Ah, no. I believe that post was stating that since the lot of YOU had so little faith in the human race and were self consumed to the point that the FINANCIAL complications of being sued was like, more important than a human life (and really??? Lizard brain who came up with that one, REALLY you are afraid of being sued, like FOR REALS? Come on.) That the human race is actually so self serving, it's sort of not worth saving.

It wasn't a COMPLEMENT for your deep LOVE for your pets, it was distaste for those who would literally, factually, actually go for their OWN pet over a human.

If you consider the human species that "degraded" maybe getting out more might do you a little good.

But, I have something to add to my hypothetical, which should put this to rest for me.
a) I am a first responder. I am CPR and First Aid certified, I don't even GET to try to save my pet, I have to sit there, administering first aid and CPR until someone more qualified arrives. I am so glad this point is now MOOT for me. (Although I still would TRY to help the human.)

B) Though, if I had TIME, l might ask the person in distress, "Hey, if you were the one helping ME out, and had to pick, like, between saving me or YOUR pet what would you do?" And they answered, "Save my pet." I would happily turn away and leave them to die. Because, in that case, I guess I'd be helping rid the earth of yet another lizard brain, like, and that could be a good thing.

Finally, I can feel whole, though.

I will repeat it again. EVERY human being is beloved to someone, be it their parent, sibling, child, whatever. HECK, I would save the SPERM DONOR in this situation, and he just called me yesterday in a blackout, and couldn't remember how OLD the kid was and was just vaguely manipulative and unpleasant, and once again asked me if I could try to convince the kid to call him, despite the kid changing his phone number and like, requesting it not be given to the sperm donor.

There's a human being that I really rather dislike, I'd say pretty close to 75% of the time and that's only because I have empathy. He refused to get sober, beat me up, neglected and beat my kid, threatened my kid during a final relapse for several years that if the kid said anything to us, he would send a crew of illegal Mexican workers to kill us (it took the kid a few years to work up the courage) and that type of stuff. He cost me dearly in emotional fatigue, annoyance, health costs, legal bills, therapy for me and the kid, he's just an all around general unpleasant human being. I KNOW his family would have sadness, heck even I might have some, and etc. But, he's a pretty good example of a pretty worthless human being.

However, (ironically) before his life went to total madness, he shared a love of pets with the kid, he had some decent attributes, he is now a lonely, sad and tragic drunk (and probably other stuff) who is a vague annoyance to me every now and then, mainly that I had to tell the kid, because I would feel wrong withholding the Sperm Donor's requests because the kid DOES worry he may die, and I had to give the kid some serious coaching about if he DOES decide to call, to NOT expect change of any kind (the kid was like, I want him to change for HIM) and I was like, "Look he's 43 years old kiddo, if you want to talk to the biological dad, well do it, so you don't have to feel guilty if/when he dies, but you simply CANNOT expect people to change unless THEY want to, and he is not showing any signs of that, and I'd probably pick a specific time to call where he won't be in a blackout, it will be nicer for YOU."

Yep, even that guy who is completely unpleasant, is worth saving more in a fire. And he's really a JERK.

But it's all moot, and I'm just going to recommend to all of you lovable nutballs to like, go get your first responder card, you just might ACTUALLY save a life, likeable or not, but you would HAVE to save a life.

I sincerely hope there aren't doggy CPR classes, but I bet there are.

Anna

 

[kross8]

Ah, no. I believe that post was stating that since the lot of YOU had so little faith in the human race and were self consumed to the point that the FINANCIAL complications of being sued was like, more important than a human life (and really??? Lizard brain who came up with that one, REALLY you are afraid of being sued, like FOR REALS? Come on.) That the human race is actually so self serving, it's sort of not worth saving.

It wasn't a COMPLEMENT for your deep LOVE for your pets, it was distaste for those who would literally, factually, actually go for their OWN pet over a human.

If you consider the human species that "degraded" maybe getting out more might do you a little good.

But, I have something to add to my hypothetical, which should put this to rest for me.
a) I am a first responder. I am CPR and First Aid certified, I don't even GET to try to save my pet, I have to sit there, administering first aid and CPR until someone more qualified arrives. I am so glad this point is now MOOT for me. (Although I still would TRY to help the human.)

B) Though, if I had TIME, l might ask the person in distress, "Hey, if you were the one helping ME out, and had to pick, like, between saving me or YOUR pet what would you do?" And they answered, "Save my pet." I would happily turn away and leave them to die. Because, in that case, I guess I'd be helping rid the earth of yet another lizard brain, like, and that could be a good thing.

Finally, I can feel whole, though.

I will repeat it again. EVERY human being is beloved to someone, be it their parent, sibling, child, whatever. HECK, I would save the SPERM DONOR in this situation, and he just called me yesterday in a blackout, and couldn't remember how OLD the kid was and was just vaguely manipulative and unpleasant, and once again asked me if I could try to convince the kid to call him, despite the kid changing his phone number and like, requesting it not be given to the sperm donor.

There's a human being that I really rather dislike, I'd say pretty close to 75% of the time and that's only because I have empathy. He refused to get sober, beat me up, neglected and beat my kid, threatened my kid during a final relapse for several years that if the kid said anything to us, he would send a crew of illegal Mexican workers to kill us (it took the kid a few years to work up the courage) and that type of stuff. He cost me dearly in emotional fatigue, annoyance, health costs, legal bills, therapy for me and the kid, he's just an all around general unpleasant human being. I KNOW his family would have sadness, heck even I might have some, and etc. But, he's a pretty good example of a pretty worthless human being.

However, (ironically) before his life went to total madness, he shared a love of pets with the kid, he had some decent attributes, he is now a lonely, sad and tragic drunk (and probably other stuff) who is a vague annoyance to me every now and then, mainly that I had to tell the kid, because I would feel wrong withholding the Sperm Donor's requests because the kid DOES worry he may die, and I had to give the kid some serious coaching about if he DOES decide to call, to NOT expect change of any kind (the kid was like, I want him to change for HIM) and I was like, "Look he's 43 years old kiddo, if you want to talk to the biological dad, well do it, so you don't have to feel guilty if/when he dies, but you simply CANNOT expect people to change unless THEY want to, and he is not showing any signs of that, and I'd probably pick a specific time to call where he won't be in a blackout, it will be nicer for YOU."

Yep, even that guy who is completely unpleasant, is worth saving more in a fire. And he's really a JERK.

But it's all moot, and I'm just going to recommend to all of you lovable nutballs to like, go get your first responder card, you just might ACTUALLY save a life, likeable or not, but you would HAVE to save a life.

I sincerely hope there aren't doggy CPR classes, but I bet there are.

Anna

Anna,, I think you are in the process of discovering people all over the world dont have your same perspective,, that's what makes us human. People have proven to be litigious randomly,, therefore a valid risk. What the question didn't consider was if the human got themselves into trouble,, ie doing something really stupid (& the pet too) to get themselves into harms way. You cant cure stupid,, natural selection tends to 'fix that'.

as for cpr/life savings on pets,, we once had a dog who hated me because she believed she and my husband were the key members of the family,, he was gone from the house when she started choking on chicken,,,,,,,yes I saved her life and it took awhile,,,,,,,,,,she got better and still hated me once he returned home.

 

[Jebbn]

Not a definitive but an interesting read on the topic.

Click: Would you save a puppy or a child from a burning building

 

[kross8]

Not a definitive but an interesting read on the topic.

Click: Would you save a puppy or a child from a burning building

a child for me,, I still have 'hope' for the human species

 

[2WhiteWolves]

Deleted

 

[denali_41]

Ah, no. I believe that post was stating that since the lot of YOU had so little faith in the human race and were self consumed to the point that the FINANCIAL complications of being sued was like, more important than a human life (and really??? Lizard brain who came up with that one, REALLY you are afraid of being sued, like FOR REALS? Come on.) That the human race is actually so self serving, it's sort of not worth saving.

Anna

Yuup i'm the "lizard brain" that came up with that concept

this lizard brain thinks you need to stop inputting your 2cents worth into EVERY thread on ecf and get out into the real world
then you will see what is really happening,

 

[tailland]

to the point that the FINANCIAL complications of being sued was like, more important than a human life (and really??? Lizard brain who came up with that one, REALLY you are afraid of being sued, like FOR REALS? Come on.)

Sam Harris' "The Moral Landscape" deals with that topic. Sometimes, outside incentives can make perfectly normal humans look like complete psychopaths. I read about a pretty crass example of that specific phenomenon being found in China, where people, who were in a traffic accident and accidentally injured someone, even ever so mildly, would then try to run over and kill that injured person. The reason was the legal circumstances, where having merely injured someone in a traffic accident would cause almost unbearable financial responsibilities for a prolonged period of time, while killing that same person in traffic would simply cause a rather average one-time fine. By trying to kill the injured, people were simply trying to save themselves from great existential stress, which puts their otherwise crass behaviour firmly into the realm of reasonableness.

It wasn't a COMPLEMENT for your deep LOVE for your pets, it was distaste for those who would literally, factually, actually go for their OWN pet over a human.

You have been huffing and puffing quite a lot about this. What I have yet to read from you is your A-Z reasoning WHY you see it differently. No amount of outrage can spare you that effort.