Whoes fault?

[SissySpike]

I know this is not popular because I seen it from the time I found this forum
All these posts about how could someone be that stupid
I mean when I first found this forum I thought everyone was born with this knowledge of batteries

I was not and no one I know has In fact everyone I've know leaves the cell phone on the charger over night
And other things described as stupid

I honestly believe when someone is new to this with no prior experience and get there first ego or cigalike
there really should be some type of warning
The B&M I got my first ego taught me to charge it on the computer let it charge overnight
I was a novice and did not think I had any reason not to trust them at the time

Now some one being a little more advanced getting a mod yes that's another story
at that point you should have done a lot of research before hand on safety

That to me that is exactly why you need to learn how to use something. It took me all of an hour after I bought my first kit to search the internet to have at least a clue of what I was doing. So IMO the new guy has just as much responsibility as the advanced user. Injury and property damage do not care if your new it will bite anyone who is not aware.

 

[vjc0628]

That to me that is exactly why you need to learn how to use something. It took me all of an hour after I bought my first kit to search the internet to have at least a clue of what I was doing. So IMO the new guy has just as much responsibility as the advanced user. Injury and property damage do not care if your new it will bite anyone who is not aware.

Im just saying Its presented in a way you wouldn't think of it as anything to be concerned about
there are no instruction the B&M make it out as just ordinary

I needed to be told and I think most people do
I really don't know anybody apart from this forum that has any battery safety knowledge
No buddy says you should be concerned when you get anything cell phones and what not
There is nothing apart from this forum that ever indicated that I need to know something about this

Did I need to need to learn how to use something yes
But based on what the B&M told me I thought I was good
without this forum I wouldn't know any better (and I'm grateful for this forum)
I'm just saying its not common knowledge and it cant be thought of as if it was

 

[vjc0628]

That to me that is exactly why you need to learn how to use something. It took me all of an hour after I bought my first kit to search the internet to have at least a clue of what I was doing. So IMO the new guy has just as much responsibility as the advanced user. Injury and property damage do not care if your new it will bite anyone who is not aware.

And you know what I did not know what to buy when I bought my first kit
I looked up a place close to me and asked question's
I did not think I had a reason to believe the answers I got were wrong
The guy presented himself as an expert with 2 years experience

That's the way I always done thing find some one face to face and ask a lot of questions
I did not know any better at the time
Now Since I found this forum I know everything said to me was wrong including the junk I was sold for too high prices

 

[Nermal]

I know this is not popular because I seen it from the time I found this forum
All these posts about how could someone be that stupid

My opinion exactly. It looks like the ECF is now up to 144, 000 + members. I'd almost bet that represents less than 10% of the vapors in the US, and how exactly are they supposed to come by all this knowledge? Osmosis?

 

[H. Hodges]

Actually, you should be careful of that McDonald's story. ..... Truth is, the woman--who was elderly--had third degree burns and needed skin grafts. Freaking skin grafts. It wasn't some ordinary "burn". Not by a long shot.

What was going on was McD's marketing dweebs had this ever so brilliant "idea" to ratchet up the temp of the coffee to levels known to be seriously dangerous (if memory serves, upward in the 140+ territory). Their--and I use the term loosely--reasoning was that since people going through the drive through wanted their coffee to still be hot when they got home, the coffee temp should be run up high so the coffee cooled to "hot" on the trip home.

But the temps were in known to be dangerous territory. I'd bet my last dollar there were tons of meetings along the way where people warned the marketing twerps "that's dangerous" and were brushed off. ......


Tort "reform" ain't necessarily for your benefit...

I like your post, but the temp was 190dF (+). Another fact was that the elderly female (adequately already pictured!) was in the passenger seat and her son was driving. The car was stopped in a parking space after getting through the drive through window so the female could put creamer in her coffee. She was trying to take the lid off when it dumped into her lap and caused the horrendous burns. She almost died (no joke) due to the extent of the injuries. Partially her fault? You bet! But McD had had 700 other similar complaints of burn injuries from their coffee after ratcheting up the temp without addressing the issue. The real reason the female was awarded the millions of punitive damages, was because McD was found negligent in their safety practices due to not addressing the numerous previous incidents that were documented. That's not counting how many others (if any) didn't report their injuries after burning themselves with the coffee. Yes, frivolous cases of sue happy lawyers ABSOLUTELY do exist and are filed every day from anything to a pen leaking causing a stain on the skin, to down right fraudulent abuse of the tort laws. This case, I assure you, was not one of them. If Tort Reform passes, it will take your ability/right to seek damages away from you or place a cap on the amount that can be sought. If you were ran over by a city bus that was being operated by an intoxicated driver, you would be SOL and not compensated to the degree (if at all) that the incident has influenced your life.

So, If a, let's say Chinese firm for S&G's, takes known bad batteries, re-wraps them with superior brands wrapper, and markets them as authentic through a secondary American company (Mom & Pop?), and the battery explodes at no fault of the operator (and yes every battery good or bad has that potential), Tort Reform would remove or greatly reduce your your ability to seek punitive damages.

However, (greatly exaggerated here if you're firing a .2ohm coil at 20 watts and blow your batteries in your face, current Tort laws would protect the company because you were using the product in a known hazardous manner and assumed the responsibility. Most of these type of cases are usually settled out of court for the sure fact that the company does not want the bad press, and the person that blew their own face off would not want to expose themselves to the horrendous media blitz (and possible counter suits).

 

[DoogieTony]

When I'm low on cash I go to Walmart, pee on the floor, slip in said pee, scream "pee pee" as loud and frequently as possible. call my lawyer, and collect my money check.

 

[sonicdsl]

 

[K_Tech]

The real reason the female was awarded the millions of punitive damages, was because McD was found negligent in their safety practices due to not addressing the numerous previous incidents that were documented. That's not counting how many others (if any) didn't report their injuries after burning themselves with the coffee.

I did a web search for "Propane tank explosions in the US" and got back 327,000 results.

Another search for "Acetylene tank explosions" yielded 2,340,000 results.

Again, a search for "Bleach burns" got me 8,570,000 hits.

These are all potentially dangerous materials and the end user MUST exercise caution when using them. The companies KNOW that they are selling a potentially dangerous product. From the article on the McDonald's lady in the beginning of the thread:

So there you have it ... the infamous McDonalds hot coffee case. If you had been on the jury how would you have voted? Was it Stella's fault for trying to add sugar and cream while sitting in the car? Or was it McDonald's fault for selling coffee so much hotter than any other place?

You be the judge.

If I'm the judge, then I'm saying the fault was hers and her son's. Coffee is sold to be consumed, not poured into a lap. The consumer used the product (through mishap, of course) in a manner that was not intended (and warned against) by the vendor. It's the consumer's fault. The only way I find fault with McDonald's is if they sold their coffee with a cute logo that said "Hey! Pour this stuff on your crotch for even MORE coffee enjoyment!"

(On a side note, my car will top out WELL into the triple digits - as will many cars that are sold every day. If I choose to drive down a city street at 150+ and get killed, is it the manufacturer's fault because they sold me the car which I used in an unsafe manner?)

Just my opinion. I DO feel bad for the elderly woman that got burned but I still think the decision was wrong, and it sets a bad precedent.

 

[Zealous]

..... - Spill some hot coffee on you and get millions. What could be better?

McDonalds coffee is unreasonably hot. If it spilled on me & did to my skin what it did to that woman's I'd sue too.

But this is a good example of the balance that should be taken with responsibility. Of course the user should have known that the coffee would be hot & been a responsible consumer. But the cup they serve it in should be safer with a lid that does not pop off easily. And the people who hand the drink to the consumer should be responsible enough to make sure the lid is on before handing it to the consumer. I don't know how many times I've gotten sodas with the lid partially off & had it spill all over me just because when I grabbed it the lid, which was only partially placed on, popped off.

So, considering the coffee incident, a user should be aware of the dangers associated with their product. But the manufacturer should also be responsible for providing proper documentation &/or making sure the product is correctly made. And the distributor should also be responsible to "hand off" the product to the consumer safely, which includes making sure they are at least aware of the dangers of using the wrong charger with the device, etc.

A pharmacist is not a doctor but is still required to answer any questions the consumer has about the product such as dosage etc. Even though it's written on the bottle, the pharmacist still needs to make sure the instructions are clear to the consumer.

 

[Oomee]

Stop press : Just in this very second ; hot coffee is .... wait for it ......
Hot .

It's all Buzz's fault anyway !

 

[Coastal Cowboy]

My response to these threads is always the same.

It doesn't matter how hard you try to make your products idiot proof because the world will just make a bigger idiot.

 

[SissySpike]

Stop press : Just in this very second ; hot coffee is .... wait for it ......
Hot .

It's all Buzz's fault anyway !

Yea the day before it happened I called them and told them the coffee was not hot enough;-)

 

[SissySpike]

My opinion exactly. It looks like the ECF is now up to 144, 000 + members. I'd almost bet that represents less than 10% of the vapors in the US, and how exactly are they supposed to come by all this knowledge? Osmosis?

The same way I did the internet. I vaped for 4 months before I joined ECF and it was another couple of months of lurking before I became active.

I was preaching battery safety on youtube videos before I was a member here. This stuff is not a big ECF member secret there's tons of information. But you have to seek it out

lets take fault out of the equation you are the one whoes going to get hurt or have damaged property you are the one who is going to suffer. It is in your best interest to arm your self with knowledge.

I just dont understand how anyone can not think they are responsible for their own safety.

 

[Oomee]

lets take fault out of the equation you are the one whoes going to get hurt or have damaged property you are the one who is going to suffer. It is in your best interest to arm your self with knowledge.

Unfortunately Buzz , to many in this world knowledge is a luxury , lower in priority than their second car or 50 inch plasma .

 

[Tvan]

I was preaching battery safety on youtube videos before I was a member here. This stuff is not a big ECF member secret there's tons of information. But you have to seek it out

You mentioned battery safety awareness in another thread as well. I'm kind of neck deep involved in what I'm doing right now. Afterwards, I would seriously be willing to help you with the battery awareness if you would like some help. I feel it's a noble cause.

 

[Knosis]

Sorry. I guess I opened a can of worms with my comments. That wasn't my intention.

 

[SissySpike]

You mentioned battery safety awareness in another thread as well. I'm kind of neck deep involved in what I'm doing right now. Afterwards, I would seriously be willing to help you with the battery awareness if you would like some help. I feel it's a noble cause.

I think it would be cool to have a cartoon type guy possibly Berny who demonstrates to us what not to do in kind of a funny way. I remember some posters in a fab shop like a 100 years ago in my early 20s a series of them they kind of stuck in your head with out being threatening or accusatory or overly dramatic.

 

[SissySpike]

Sorry. I guess I opened a can of worms with my comments. That wasn't my intention.

Turn you avatar around and use it on your self is your only penance;-)

 

[Talyon]

Simply put, it's easier to Blame then accept Responsibility. Not that I act this way, but most do.....

How many people do u know, who have just been in a car accident, and then upon telling u the story admit it was their own fault? Seems to me most say it was the other guy/gal.

Let's give everyone a rubber suit, and put them in a rubber room.

 

[Knosis]

Turn you avatar around and use it on your self is your only penance;-)

.........