Why a bad rap?

[zoiDman]

That is kind of a political statement so we’re walking the edge here, but let me try to address it generally.

Class action IS caveat emptor. ...

Not sure where you are getting a "Political Statement" out of what I posted?

And I think you are Confused to what Caveat Emptor means.

"Under the principle of caveat emptor, the buyer could not recover damages from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects or otherwise made material misrepresentations amounting to fraud."

Caveat emptor - Wikipedia

 

[GOMuniEsq]

He just wants to avoid a political discussion which will get the thread polarized and locked, including quoting the law and legal definitions

 

[zoiDman]

He just wants to avoid a political discussion which will get the thread polarized and locked, including quoting the law and legal definitions

I guess.

It just seems a Tad Ironic that someone can Reply to someone that they favor Class Action Suits in a given situation, and that Isn't Political (which it Isn't).

But when the person that was replied to says that they Don't favor Class Action Suits in that situation, it is somehow a "Political Statement" (which it Isn't either).

LOL

 

[bombastinator]

Not sure where you are getting a "Political Statement" out of what I posted?

And I think you are Confused to what Caveat Emptor means.

"Under the principle of caveat emptor, the buyer could not recover damages from the seller for defects on the property that rendered the property unfit for ordinary purposes. The only exception was if the seller actively concealed latent defects or otherwise made material misrepresentations amounting to fraud."

Caveat emptor - Wikipedia

Yup. Exactly. That’s what class action suits do.

That exception is a big one and has gotten more narrowly defined, specifically to making false claims about products as also amounting to fraud. It got far enough it also applies to implied claims. This is where smok gets into legal trouble. By selling the product they imply that it is of reasonable quality when it isn’t. Fraud.

You may possibly have a point that the definition of that exemption has gotten too narrow. People seem to like the current one though. Throwing the entire thing away though, which is what you seemed to advocate though would mean that there would be no way to enforce caveat emptor. Other than the aforementioned lynch mobs.
The result if we take SMOK as an example would be people burning shops that sell the product and dragging the SMOK executives out into the street and hanging them. Bad stuff all around. Class action suits are much better.

 

[zoiDman]

Yup. Exactly. That’s what class action suits do.

That exception is a big one and has gotten more narrowly defined, specifically to making false claims about products as also amounting to fraud. It got far enough it also applies to implied claims. This is where SMOK gets into legal trouble. By selling the product they imply that it is of reasonable quality when it isn’t. Fraud.

You may possibly have a point that the definition of that exemption has gotten too narrow. People seem to like the current one though. Throwing the entire thing away though, which is what you seemed to advocate though would mean that there would be no way to enforce caveat emptor. Other than the aforementioned lynch mobs.
The result if we take SMOK as an example would be people burning shops that sell the product and dragging the SMOK executives out into the street and hanging them. Bad stuff all around. Class action suits are much better.

I think we're on Two Different Pages bombastinator.

I say if a person wants to buy a SMOK product, Great. Buy it.
And if they Don't, that's Great Also. Don't Buy it.

 

[bombastinator]

I guess.

It just seems a Tad Ironic that someone can Reply to someone that they favor Class Action Suits in a given situation, and that Isn't Political (which it Isn't).

But when the person that was replied to says that they Don't favor Class Action Suits in that situation, it is somehow a "Political Statement" (which it Isn't either).

LOL

I didn’t say I favored them. I said they have already been attempted, and may yet succeed. Totally different thing.

You said you think they should be abolished as a concept, (rather than in a specific situation as you claim) and cited right wing political theory in support. This is why I said it was edging toward political.

It wasn’t me, it was you.

I attempted to reply without actually going to political theory and keeping it very general.

 

[dennism]

damn, these message boards get off track fast.

 

[bombastinator]

I think we're on Two Different Pages bombastinator.

I say if a person wants to buy a SMOK product, Great. Buy it.
And if they Don't, that's Great Also. Don't Buy it.

this is possible. We both seem to be getting different things from the statements of the other.

 

[zoiDman]

...

You said you think they [Class Action Lawsuits] should be abolished as a concept, (rather than in a specific situation as you claim)

When? Please post where I said that.

and cited right wing political theory in support. This is why I said it was edging toward political.

...

Seriously? I think you are Really Reaching. Again.

 

[bombastinator]

damn, these message boards get off track fast.

It did wander a bit. The main theme still seems to be the same though “why do people hate SMOK” more or less.

 

[bombastinator]

When? Please post where I said that.

“SeriousI believe more in a Laissez Faire / Caveat Emptor approach when it comes to things Non-Safety related. Verses helping a Law Firm get Rich doing Class Action Litigation.”

This was the statement.

? I think you are Really Reaching. Again.

[/QUOTE]
This is a fundamental problem with language. It can often be interpreted in different ways.

You interpreted my statement that SMOK as a company is doing things it would and may still be prosecuted for if it was an American company as being a general support for such a suit (which it sort of is. It would save us all a lot of bother in having to warn people about them. I’m happy with anything that makes the issue go away though). I interpreted yours as a general refutation of the concept of lawsuits.

 

[zoiDman]

“SeriousI believe more in a Laissez Faire / Caveat Emptor approach when it comes to things Non-Safety related. Verses helping a Law Firm get Rich doing Class Action Litigation.”

This was the statement.

...

And you Interpreted that to mean that I think class action lawsuits should be abolished as a concept? Wow. That seems like a Pretty Big Leap.

I think we are Done here.

Because the More I talk with you, the More you tell Me what I think. And you Haven't been right Yet.

 

[Rossum]

The main theme still seems to be the same though “why do people hate SMOK” more or less.

Because they make cheap junk that has a propensity to fail prematurely, and occasionally those failures are spectacular.

That said, a couple of SMOK 1300 mAh "spinner" type batteries were my first upgrade after I made the mistake of ordering a starter kit with 400 mAh batteries. They never gave me any trouble in the short time I used them regularly, but I moved on to better things relatively quickly.

 

[RayofLight62]

The few Smok devices of second generation that I have, the G-Priv2, G150, Q-box, V-Fin, bought from the finest (and somewhat dearest) dealers, never had any problem to this day.

Their previous devices, up to the R80, were built to a different standard of higher quality, and not truly comparable to their later offerings.

Smok build devices to the numbers. There are way too many subpar devices that shouldn't be on the shelves, and are not weeded out at the factory. Sometime entire batches have had problems.

When you couple bad QC with a refusal in providing proper warranty, it is easy to have scores of customers which, feeling powerless with a new and defective devices in their hands, start lamenting - and rightly - against Smok.

I had my bad luck with leaking mesh coils. Three packs (15 coils) straight in the bin. Vape coils have no warranty of sort (except when is open/shorted) - which is wrong; and it is something the vape dealers haven't fixed, nor have any intention to fix.

If a coil visibly leak or make dry hits, it is not functional - and should be replaced as per current warranty laws, but I haven't been able to achieve anything.

So I buy coils which have no known issue, but it is something that will have to change at some point, they can't apply Chinese warranty rules to western markets.

This is Smok. Big, cheap, most times reasonably built, but managed from some Flintstones characters. I avoid Smok if there are alternatives.

 

[stols001]

I sort of have a theory on the Smok defenders. There seem to be people who can sort of.... Bend objects to their will. I'm sort of serious here. I don't even think it's necessarily related to being an engineer or understanding how things work, and etc.

Some people just have this magical object ability. They are naturally organized, papers on their desk are always arranged into crisp, sharp corners and etc.

Some of us need to work at it.

Some of us need to work at it REALLY REALLY hard.

There's also a thing that happens when you ARE organized, where like, life is easier. I have not dropped a single mod off the table since my husband most kindly found an area rug that we had somewhere and put it under my mod table.

It's sort of like... You impact the objects around you but they impact you, too.

I should probably like, get this tatttoed on my forearm or something because I'm not exactly the crisp white edges of paper type of person.

This is why I don't purchase Smok products. I'm quite certain I would blow one up without EVEN doing anything wrong. Etc.

I do think you have to be SUPER on the "I control objects" type of area to have one and use it really successfully and like it, and even then, it COULD blow up and might do so MORE than another mod.

So, you just have to assess yourself on the "How well do I control my environment scale" before you buy. Most new vapers don't do that, though.

Heck, most vapers don't do it either. But, you know, it is what it is. I find "control the people who control the objects" skills to be great, too.

Although, like cleaning, you are always going to feel better about it if you do it yourself.

There. No politics or arguments.
Anna

Annak

 

[Baditude]

I was in the “don’t learn” camp until I read a claim here that making poor quality stuff is actually part of a company motto of theirs. They seem to apparently actually do it on purpose.

If you are referring to "We make cheap. You buy cheap. It break? You buy another." I actually came up with that a few years ago as a quasi-humorous catch phrase for describing SMOK mods.

 

[DaveP]

I've had several SMOK mods over the years. One still works (SMOK Alien 220W), but doesn't get used frequently. I think their designs are OK, but their assembly line is pushed past the level of good quality control and the supervisors are all about the numbers instead of workmanship. When it's all about production numbers, quality deteriorates. Then, it's a toss up as to what's in your box when it arrives.

 

[vimagreg]

Well... My personal story with SMOK is: the day I bought my first new kit since I stopped vaping four to five years ago (I think), one friend bought a SMOK model. Mine was a Revenger X. Short story: I sold my Revenger X and it still performs great, as new. My friend's Smok one is in thrash can for some weeks, now. Then I bought a Pen22 for a friend. It presented defects and was changed two times until I gave up and changed it for a Vaporesso Mini. No more problems.

So SMOK, for me, never more.

 

[Anise]

I own 2 Smok devices. One I bought and one I won. The one I bought died at 4 months and the one I won was doa. Smok was good about taking care of it and once I sent them to Smok (at my cost) they were replaced at no cost. Their quality kinda sucks but I have no problems with their warranty service.
3 months for a pod is abominable. Its probably just past warranty but you can try.

 

[sonicbomb]

I have a SMOK TFV8 Big Baby that has served me well for years. I've not heard any complaints about their tanks here on ECF, only their mods.