Why are Governments trying to BAN e-cigs when they are actually helping people!?

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wv2win

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It may well work for lots of people, but it isn't certain how many, or how many it will cause harm to (presumably more significantly, given the evidence we have, by encouraging uptake of smoking rather than directly - there will be at least some people who will start smoking e-cigarettes then move onto real cigarettes, rather than the other way round).............

Hmm... Don't know how much attention you're paying............................

We are paying attention to your posts and we are well versed in the ANTZ's litany of bogus scare tactics. It is why so many of us see a significant similarity in your posts and the tripe spewed out by the ANTZ''s. The shoe fits you well. Act indignant if you like, we aren't buying it.
 

AegisPrime

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Perhaps I'll stock up on nic, and if the taxation starts, I'll buy 0 nic juice with extra flavor shots and mix in the nic myself.

I'm going to get into mixing my own soon - I can get enough nic/PG/VG and flavourings to make 100ml for around £20 ($33) - cheaper if I buy in bulk - I'm learning to recoil my devices too so I'll be saving money there as well - my intent is to vape my brains out for under £1 ($1.65) per day :D
 

zoiDman

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Only think they will be able to get a choke hold on is the nicotine in the e-juice...if they crack down..I will be mixing my own and using a daggum Cree flashlight as a mod (or build me a PUCK MOD)...they CAN'T control the hardware or the PG or VG or even the artificial flavors...they are used in HUNDREDS of products people consume on a daily basis...all they can get ahold of is the NIC extract...

There Doesn't really even need to be a Choke Hold on Nicotine.

Requiring Retailers to Comply with all the Regs that go into Selling a Tobacco Product is going to wipe out probably 1/2 or 2/3 of the Current Retailers.

Re-Apply for your Local Business License and state that you want to Buy/Receive/Store/Sell/Distributed Tobacco Products and you might get a Rude Awakening. If you in a R1 zone... Forget It.
 

djsvapour

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Vaping is cheaper than Smoking and yes we have 'free' health care though waiting times and actual care is something else all together. In general the Health service is not bad.
End of the day the UK government is making more money off Tobacco taxation than they are spending in treating individuals.

Good comment. The same people who hate vaping are the same people who want tobacco users to pay extra for NHS treatment.
Except, the revenue from smoking is greater than the cost to the NHS. Smokers make the NHS cheaper for non-smokers.

I don't think the "ban" is just down to money, tobacco and pharmaceutical companies. It's about people controlling other people (and the money, but not entirely the money).
They don't see Vaping as giving up smoking "properly".... in other words, we are cheating the system.
 

generic mutant

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I'll respectfully disagree :)

Not that I'm saying it isn't complicated but there's certainly a lot of unfounded bias against vaping from government officials and anti-smoking organizations and when you strip away their spin-doctoring the only thing I see left if that they don't want something that looks like smoking to be socially acceptable - irrespective of whether it helps smokers quit or is harmless to bystanders.

You might believe that there's complicated, logical reasoning behind all these policies and legislation but personally, I just see a *lot* of militant anti-smoking activists in panic mode.

I think most of the health groups just have an ideological inflexibility - same as with snus. It's tobacco, it's bad, they've lied to us before, no quarter shall be given. The funding ties with pharmaceuticals are no doubt a factor, though I think not as big as some people make out - I think a lot of the people running these things just see smoking as an evil that must be destroyed. Normally when you're that fervent about something you don't look at the details.

But the governments themselves must internally be discussing the consequences (health, financial, social...) of allowing e-cigs to proliferate. I can't say how good the data they're working with is, or how reasonable those discussing it are.

The 'looks like smoking' thing is complicated, because it's a real argument that e-smoking renormalises smoking behaviour (I don't think it's a legitimate argument, because the problem with smoking behaviour is the harm it does. If you can create an alternative that is just as satisfying, but doesn't do any harm, I wouldn't care if everyone did it).
 

zoiDman

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We are paying attention to your posts and we are well versed in the ANTZ's litany of bogus scare tactics. It is why so many of us see a significant similarity in your posts and the tripe spewed out by the ANTZ''s. The shoe fits you well. Act indignant if you like, we aren't buying it.

Jeeze wv2win. Why don't you take it down a Notch?

Everyone who doesn't Buy In to your Views on how e-Cigarettes should or Should be Used isn't an ANTZ.
 

WarHawk-AVG

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There Doesn't really even need to be a Choke Hold on Nicotine.

Requiring Retailers to Comply with all the Regs that go into Selling a Tobacco Product is going to wipe out probably 1/2 or 2/3 of the Current Retailers.

Re-Apply for your Local Business License and state that you want to Buy/Receive/Store/Sell/Distributed Tobacco Products and you might get a Rude Awakening. If you in a R1 zone... Forget It.
Beautiful thing...there are numersus companies that are operating under a self imposed regulation already

ECBlends does
ECBlend - Certification, FDA cGMP, Better Business Bureau, OSHA, Environment

All the other mom and pop shops however...either will have to spend buckets stepping up thier game or become resellers of those that already do pre-regulate the quality of their products
 

AegisPrime

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We are paying attention to your posts and we are well versed in the ANTZ's litany of bogus scare tactics. It is why so many of us see a significant similarity in your posts and the tripe spewed out by the ANTZ''s. The shoe fits you well. Act indignant if you like, we aren't buying it.

I'm sure GM can fight his own battles, but personally I think you're wrong about him - he seems a lot more conservative and less cynical than someone like myself and in a way I envy that. I'd love to see the world through less jaded eyes but that's no longer how I see things. I find his comments provoke a lot of discussion and whether you agree with them or not, that debate is valuable.

I guess it's also why I was on racehorse's back the other day about Anjaffm's comments - everybody has something to contribute here - I may not always agree with it, but I value their thoughts and opinions all the same.
 

zoiDman

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Beautiful thing...there are numersus companies that are operating under a self imposed regulation already

ECBlends does
ECBlend - Certification, FDA cGMP, Better Business Bureau, OSHA, Environment

All the other mom and pop shops however...either will have to spend buckets stepping up thier game or become resellers of those that already do pre-regulate the quality of their products

Yeah... Many People here don't ever think what Exactly it takes to sell a Tobacco Product in the USA.

It differs from State to State. But the Long and the Short of it is your going to need Approval on Many Different Levels.

And if some Pencil Pusher at the Local Level deems that Tobacco Products can not be Sold at your location because you Don't Satisfy a Zoning or Fire Suppression Code, your SOL.
 

wv2win

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Jeeze wv2win. Why don't you take it down a Notch?

Everyone who doesn't Buy In to your Views on how e-Cigarettes should or Should be Used isn't an ANTZ.

Jeeze, zoiDman, why don't you look into a reading comprehension course. I stated his comments were "similar" to what the ANTZ's spew out, which is accurate.

Just because you agree with the ANTZ's on the banning of vaping in many places, we haven't called you an ANTZ's. We do reserve the right to disagree with you, even though you get riled up about it. Take a chill pill or a vape and calm down.
 

zoiDman

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Thanks zoiDman and AegisPrime for the support.

I'm not especially concerned if my posts elicit this kind of response from him. People will make their own judgements about who the troll is.

:)

Wasn't trying to get on anyone's Christmas Card List.

I just think that the ECF is Better Place when Different Views can be Expressed without Someone calling Someone Else an ANTZ.
 

skoony

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So if it's literally all about money and not health, why do governments introduce cigarette bans / restrictions?

Surely they'd be better off just bumping up the sin taxes.

It must be very nice living in a world in which there's black, and there's white, and that's just about it: there's the beneficent e-cigarette makers and the evil horrible gubmint and ANTZ, and a vast plane of nothingness in between.

Most people acknowledge that reality is a little more complex than that...

yes this is totally about he money.there is no doubt.
this is my take on whats going to happen in good old taxasota.

here in good old taxasota i believe within 5 years ecigs will be out right banned
or taxed at a rate so much higher than analogs as to make going back to smoking
2 packs a day cheaper.(7 to 9 dollars a pack depending on the brand)

here are some of the reasons why i believe this.

1.government:at the local,county,and state level.
there are b&m ecig stores springing up every where.
vaping is spreading like wildfire here.
with the losses in tax revenue our elected officials are in a panic.
what really worries them is there constituents,friends and family
that have switched are well versed in the ins and outs of the ecig
controversy.

2.the medical establishment: has one of the highest per-capita
concentrations of hospitals in the country.and we have the world renown
mayo clinic in rochester with many additional hospitals located there.
over the last 5 years every magor hospital in rochester and the
twin cities area have undergone multi 100 million dollar exspansions
in preparation for obama care.minnesota also ops-in for every federal
health mandate and ssi program.
they have to pay for this.
healthy people are not in there best interest.
2a:the doctors:to be fair to the doctors there's a knock down drag out fight raging
below the public view here.
many doctors after seeing the affect switching to ecigs has had on there patients
health are all for it.
heres the problem.most all doctors private or not are affiliated with
a hostpital or clinic.
so either through the hospital or clinic or private agreement they are bound
up in legal agreement with,
2b:big pharma.no further comment needed here.

3.the antz:i realize there are a lot of people that are against this for
what they believe are valid reasons.they are good people that really care
because of personal reasons or perhaps have seen what smoking has done
to a loved one or friend.thats perfectly fine with me.
the ones i worry about(and they are not a small minority)are the
do-gooders that stick there nose into every every cause big and small
as long as it gives them the opportunity to tell other people what to do,
or not do.
they are fit to be tied as they believe ecigs are a dodge to get around
the bans they so gleefully shoved down every ones throat.
they wont stand for it,and lets not forget about the children.
if this is about children in any way then that means the public school
system is a complete and utter failure.
what child going to todays public schools does'nt know about the dangers
of smoking,drinking,drugs,and republicans.
give me a break.(sex in any form is aok though)
:2c:
regards
mike
 

Str8vision

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Follow the money... Smokers provide big tobacco, and governments, billions of dollars in profit/revenue. Pharmaceutical companies rake in massive profits by charging outrageous prices for "smoking cessation" products of dubious effectiveness. Both industries have powerful lobbies donating many millions of dollars to politicians worldwide and therefore yield great influence on the political (lawmaking) scene. Vaping has proven to be very successful at turning smokers away from tobacco (and the draconian taxes imposed upon it), without the aid of expensive pills, patches or doctor visits. Vaping cuts into big tobacco and big pharma's profits while simultaneously reducing government revenues....a triple threat. Vaping hasn't a powerful lobby nor does it pay millions to politicians in bribes...er, I mean...donations. With big business AND government as enemies, I believe vaping will either be banned or at the very least heavily regulated and nic juice taxed at an insane rate. Lacking credible scientific evidence of any harmful/toxic effects they will claim that vaping leads children to smoking as the reason for taking such action. Yes...I know...it's like saying that drinking water is a steppingstone to alcoholism, but that will be their excuse. I fully expect extensive regulation and heavy taxes will be imposed on nic juice so I am stockpiling large quantities of 100mg strength in my deep freeze.
 

zoiDman

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BTW - If you have read wv2win's posts as long as I have you will see a Distinct Pattern to them.

And that is He will Imply that your Position is the Same as the ANTZ. Hence, Guilt by Association.

...

Just because you agree with the ANTZ's on the banning of vaping in many places, we haven't called you an ANTZ's. We do reserve the right to disagree with you, even though you get riled up about it. Take a chill pill or a vape and calm down.

It is somewhat Comical because it is So Predictable.
 

AegisPrime

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generic mutant said:

zoiDman said:

wv2win said:

double-facepalm.gif


I love you guys really :D
 

generic mutant

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If they tax e-cigs *any* higher than the current rates, I'm gonna struggle :(

I was spending £2 a day ($3.30) on tobacco but now I'm spending £1.40 per day on e-liquid ($2.30) - if they raise the tax to even half of what tobacco is here it's going to cost more than smoking.

[Excuse the off topic...]

Do you do Hangsen?

Hangsen 100ml sale
 

jdrewry

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At the end of the day, when all is said and done, it comes down to money.

For BT and BP, it's revenue forever lost (I know BT will never get my money again).

And yet, BT is starting to ramp up commercials for their OWN e-cigs now (who owns that NJOY brand?)

Money, money, money..to hell with your health; just keep that money coming in.
 
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