Why are Governments trying to BAN e-cigs when they are actually helping people!?

[Tinkiegrrl]

I don't see the point in creating a rift among us vapers. I do believe that we need to prepare for, and expect some sort of regulation. We'll be much better recieved by the populace if we push for some common sense legislation, rather then take an all or nothing attitude. The government needs a slice of the pie? Fine. They don't want kids to buy these things? Fine (middle ground would be age restriction. I'd fight for the flavors) They want to make sure that what goes into the liquid is what is advertised? Fine. They want to make sure a battery isn't going to endanger anyone? Fine. There is ground here that we could give them that won't totally destroy what we love about vaping, and I think we need to accept that they WILL be taking some. Our job should be to unite for those things to be based on common sense and logic, not on extremes and emotion.

 

[zoiDman]

At the end of the day, when all is said and done, it comes down to money.

For BT and BP, it's revenue forever lost (I know BT will never get my money again).

...

The Love of Money does seem to be a Unchanging Universal Constant. No arguments here.

But when you say that BT will never get yours again, do you mean that you would Quit Vaping if all that was Available was Pre-Filled Cartos made by BT?

 

[generic mutant]

Haven't tried it yet but wow! At that price I'm definitely going to! Thanks!

It varies a lot - I particularly like the plain fruit stuff. Some people hate all of it.

But it's worth a few shots, because if you can find one you like...

 

[Smok3man]

I don't know Exactly what is going on in the Rest of the World. Only Bits and Pieces of News Articles. But here in the USA, the Government is not trying to Ban e-Cigarettes.

There going to be around for a Long Time. Now in what Form? Or being sold how, that is the 64,000 Dollar Question.

That, and will e-Liquids be allowed to be sold in Liquid Form?

In the UK and in the Rest of Europe, there are a number of countries that are interested in banning the e-cig.

Recently they have reclassified electronic cigarettes as a consumer product instead of a medical product. Members of the EU are going to a vote in march 2014 to put in regulations/ban on certain electronic cigarette related goods e.g. Menthol Flavour liquids

Placing a ban or having electronic cigarettes regulated in a strict fashion will push the product underground which will be completely unregulated hence making is open to those who want to take advantage by putting whatever they wish in the liquids.

 

[Dakota Jim]

Smoking = big $$$ for tobacco companies
Smoking = big $$$ for governments
Smoking = big $$$ kickbacks for individual politicians from tobacco lobbyists
Smoking = big $$$ under the table salaries and funding for so called anti-ecig experts
Smoking = big $$$ for most of the medical fields and professionals (most Dr's take a hypocritic oath to earn as much as they can - the hypocratic oath is secondary to school loans, malpractice insurance and country club fees)
Smoking = big $$$ for the pharmaceutical companies who don't really care if their product makes you suicidal or hallucinate really small singers and dancers

it all boils down to

$$$ ​

 

[Tinkiegrrl]

The Love of Money does seem to be a Unchanging Universal Constant. No arguments here.

But when you say that BT will never get yours again, do you mean that you would Quit Vaping if all that was Available was Pre-Filled Cartos made by BT?

I can say that I'd be wary of what they're filling those cartos with. After all, look at what they did to cigarettes. Highly engineered, paper addiction sticks, in which they showed absolutely no thought for the health of their consumers. Vaping may not be addicting enough for them. I know that since I started vaping, I don't need a cigarette first thing in the morning.

 

[jdrewry]

The Love of Money does seem to be a Unchanging Universal Constant. No arguments here.

But when you say that BT will never get yours again, do you mean that you would Quit Vaping if all that was Available was Pre-Filled Cartos made by BT?

Absolutely, I would quit vaping if it came down to that.

 

[generic mutant]

In the UK and in the Rest of Europe, there are a number of countries that are interested in banning the e-cig.

Recently they have reclassified electronic cigarettes as a consumer product instead of a medical product. Members of the EU are going to a vote in march 2014 to put in regulations/ban on certain electronic cigarette related goods e.g. Menthol Flavour liquids

Placing a ban or having electronic cigarettes regulated in a strict fashion will push the product underground which will be completely unregulated hence making is open to those who want to take advantage by putting whatever they wish in the liquids.

It's hugely contentious though. I can't see it happening, personally.

In another few years there'll be *a lot* of people who have quit using them, and the picture surrounding gateway effects will be a lot clearer. I suspect statistically, the number of people quitting cigarettes will dwarf any possible flow in the other direction.

I'd like to see regulation on the juices though - there's some in the UK already, as I understand it (same as foodstuffs, or something), but it'd be good if there were agencies specifically monitoring and researching what was lung-safe etc. I think that's unlikely to come from anything other than government, because the industry shows no sign of wanting to do it.

 

[zoiDman]

Absolutely, I would quit vaping if it came down to that.

I do Applaud someone with Strong Convictions.

 

[generic mutant]

I can say that I'd be wary of what they're filling those cartos with. After all, look at what they did to cigarettes. Highly engineered, paper addiction sticks, in which they showed absolutely no thought for the health of their consumers. Vaping may not be addicting enough for them. I know that since I started vaping, I don't need a cigarette first thing in the morning.

Absolutely - which is why we need regulation.

Cigarette companies aren't trying to make money at all costs because they make cigarettes. It's because they're companies. E-cigarette companies, once they're big enough, will be no different.

 

[Smok3man]

It's hugely contentious though. I can't see it happening, personally.

In another few years there'll be *a lot* of people who have quit using them, and the picture surrounding gateway effects will be a lot clearer. I suspect statistically, the number of people quitting cigarettes will dwarf any possible flow in the other direction.

I'd like to see regulation on the juices though - there's some in the UK already, as I understand it (same as foodstuffs, or something), but it'd be good if there were agencies specifically monitoring and researching what was lung-safe etc. I think that's unlikely to come from anything other than government, because the industry shows no sign of wanting to do it.

Absolutely Agree generic mutant, there are a few companies that are regulated and are certified by the relevant bodies.

I hope it blows over which i'm not to sure about, I guess we'll find out in March

 

[zoiDman]

I don't see the point in creating a rift among us vapers. I do believe that we need to prepare for, and expect some sort of regulation. We'll be much better recieved by the populace if we push for some common sense legislation, rather then take an all or nothing attitude. The government needs a slice of the pie? Fine. They don't want kids to buy these things? Fine (middle ground would be age restriction. I'd fight for the flavors) They want to make sure that what goes into the liquid is what is advertised? Fine. They want to make sure a battery isn't going to endanger anyone? Fine. There is ground here that we could give them that won't totally destroy what we love about vaping, and I think we need to accept that they WILL be taking some. Our job should be to unite for those things to be based on common sense and logic, not on extremes and emotion.

I have been a Strong Advocate of Compromise in regards to e-Cigarette Use for the last 3 years. It has not been Well Received with many Members here on the ECF. Some even have called me an ANTZ.

The All or Nothing Approach is Great. As long as one Realizes that Someone is going to get Nothing. And Unfortunately, that someone will likely to be Us.

 

[AegisPrime]

In the UK and in the Rest of Europe, there are a number of countries that are interested in banning the e-cig.

Recently they have reclassified electronic cigarettes as a consumer product instead of a medical product. Members of the EU are going to a vote in march 2014 to put in regulations/ban on certain electronic cigarette related goods e.g. Menthol Flavour liquids

Placing a ban or having electronic cigarettes regulated in a strict fashion will push the product underground which will be completely unregulated hence making is open to those who want to take advantage by putting whatever they wish in the liquids.

A few corrections regarding the UK here:

From everything we've seen from ministers there's no evidence of the UK government wanting a ban - they do however intend to regulate e-cigarettes as medical devices and the EU legislation permits them to do that.

That doesn't strictly mean that they'll only be available with prescriptions or in pharmacies - after all, in the UK you can buy some medicines (Aspirin, Ibuprofen) in convenience shops/gas stations etc.

It does mean stricter regulation on how a device works, how it delivers nicotine and the dose that's delivered - it also favours cigalike battery+cartomizer configurations since the EU has stipulated that refillable devices must be 'leak-proof' (!).

Whether flavours will be restricted/outlawed is yet to be seen. There's not going to be a ban, it just doesn't look good for e-liquid and refillables - at least until we have more information from the UK government.

 

[AegisPrime]

I have been a Strong Advocate of Compromise in regards to e-Cigarette Use for the last 3 years. It has not been Well Received with many Members here on the ECF. Some even have called me an ANTZ.

The All or Nothing Approach is Great. As long as one Realizes that Someone is going to get Nothing. And Unfortunately, that someone will likely to be Us.

Again, I'm gonna respectfully disagree here That was the attitude taken of the MEPs working on the EU legislation and sadly what they've come up with is far from satisfactory. The claimed it was a victory and I see it as 'less of a defeat than it could've been'.

Any MEPs that see the potential health benefits of e-cigs should be voting to remove them from the TPD because the legislation doesn't benefit smokers or vapers in any way.

 

[generic mutant]

Again, I'm gonna respectfully disagree here That was the attitude taken of the MEPs working on the EU legislation and sadly what they've come up with is far from satisfactory. The claimed it was a victory and I see it as 'less of a defeat than it could've been'.

Any MEPs that see the potential health benefits of e-cigs should be voting to remove them from the TPD because the legislation doesn't benefit smokers or vapers in any way.

A given compromise is not the only possible compromise.

As I'm sure you've figured out by now, there are some here who won't be happy until you can blow sub-ohm clouds directly at the paintings in the Louvre (edit - and what's more, they'll probably tell you it's good for the paintings).

(and politically, they're not going to get very far...)

 

[zoiDman]

Again, I'm gonna respectfully disagree here That was the attitude taken of the MEPs working on the EU legislation and sadly what they've come up with is far from satisfactory. The claimed it was a victory and I see it as 'less of a defeat than it could've been'.

Any MEPs that see the potential health benefits of e-cigs should be voting to remove them from the TPD because the legislation doesn't benefit smokers or vapers in any way.

Victories and Defeats should be based on Realistic Expectations of the Battle Fought.

If a Person or Group wants to Fight for their Ability to use an e-Cigarette inside a Federal or State Owned Building, Great. Go for it. But there is Absolutely ZERO possibility of them Winning that Battle. Zilch. It was a Waste of Resources.

So in a case like this, Yes, it was a Defeat. But the Battle wasn't Winnable in the First Place.

One has to be a Realist when it comes to Fighting Battles. And with e-cigarette Use Bans.

An Example of the Compromise I mentioned would be to Agree with the Ban Inside a Federal or State Owned Buildings. But to Fight to Allow the Use of e-Cigarettes in Parking Lots and or Open Air Areas 50 Feet from Entrances.

And when I say "Agree", that means Abide with Also.

 

[djsvapour]

Absolutely Agree generic mutant, there are a few companies that are regulated and are certified by the relevant bodies.

I hope it blows over which i'm not to sure about, I guess we'll find out in March

Can you elaborate please? The company that comes up on your link is also the company that I was offered liquid from (via a 3rd party) that tried to tell me it was the "only e-liquid approved by the government".

 

[bosun]

The various taxing authorities make more money than all of the tobacco/cigarette producers do combined. Think of everyone from the farmer to the clerk selling them. When I was buying commercially made coffin nails,the Feds would get a dollar, the state would get two dollars plus 18 cents sales tax on the excise tax. That's on a seven dollar pack of cigs. Then figure out income tax on all of the people involved in making a living from tobacco. And if the government can vilify the golden goose at the same time, they look good in the eyes of the non-using populace.. It is "for the children" after all (g). Check out my sig line for "Puritanism"..

 

[Smok3man]

Can you elaborate please? The company that comes up on your link is also the company that I was offered liquid from (via a 3rd party) that tried to tell me it was the "only e-liquid approved by the government".

I dont know about approval by the government however I am aware they are MSDS, TUV, RoHS and CE approved and are also a new member of ECITA.

I'm from manchester and there are literally 100's of companies offering all sorts, its the only one i've jelled with. Did you try their Liquid?

 

[Puffinstein]

We all know this is about the Dollar. If the gov. was looking out for our health, the FDA would stop approving these crazy pharmaceuticals that require 5min commercials so they can state all the possible side effects. I don't think they will ban e cigs completely but think they will put a tobacco tax on the products associated with vaping. The gov. will make sure they get their cut. Look at the "affordable health care act" for example, they are slowly pushing private party insurance companies out of the picture .