It should be legal to discriminate against non vapers
- Thread starter IgnorantCig
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Maybe I'm wrong and possibly setting myself up to be attacked, but I think vapers can pretty much blame ourselves for vaping being banned in so many establishments.
I'm a vaper, but I'd complain too, if I had my family out in a restaurant and some dude was fogging it up with the Cloud blaster 5000 at the table next to me . All the while screaming "it's not illegal" or "it's my right!" . I'm not making it up. I've never seen it first hand but there were plenty of threads about it back in the day. Appropriate behavior in your own home is different than appropriate behavior somewhere else .
I'm a vaper, but I'd complain too, if I had my family out in a restaurant and some dude was fogging it up with the Cloud blaster 5000 at the table next to me . All the while screaming "it's not illegal" or "it's my right!" . I'm not making it up. I've never seen it first hand but there were plenty of threads about it back in the day. Appropriate behavior in your own home is different than appropriate behavior somewhere else .
Yes one bar i used to go in never said a word about me being sat at the bar discreetly MTL vaping away for well over a year. One day two guys walked in and started cloud chasing, i mean filling up the entire bar with clouds. A week later i went in and vaping was banned.
Banning vaping in public places was a given as soon as it was classified as a tobacco product. Public perception and misinformation has more to do with banning in individual jurisdictions imo
Well, they had to come up with a better reason than "some ruined it all"
Yep and nicotine was/is derived from tobacco plants, ruling was/is anything derived from tobacco is still tobacco. I know there's synthetic nicotine but really haven't kept up, so don't know who is or isn't using it.
Admit rude cloudies has a hand in it. Discretion is our best line of defense until the public relaxes and becomes more educated.
If we just started using eggplant to extract our nicotine that would really overturn the apple cart.
6 Common Food with Nicotine Content
Edit-I would also like to choke the ..... who thought it would be a good idea to call it an e-cigarette in the first place.
6 Common Food with Nicotine Content
Edit-I would also like to choke the ..... who thought it would be a good idea to call it an e-cigarette in the first place.
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I'm fortunate that in the UK vaping is allowed at the owners discretion. Most bars i drink in will allow it.... That's down to the UK Government taking a soft approach on vaping and weighing up the available evidence, something that surprised me. Whilst there is no proof that vaping causes harm to byestanders then any ban is open to question.... But we don't want to go there.
Depending on what state you live in someone can choose to open a bar or club or whatever... that allows vaping. It could happen here, although I really don't frequent bars enough to know if there is one here.
I discreetly vape most places (unless there is food involved, as I figure my vape smell could pollute things) and as a MTL vaper, it's very rare for me to get asked about it. I wander around with my vape in hand plenty of places. I've never been "caught" vaping and asked to stop except a the gem show, where I just had my vape in my hand a security guard passed by and told me not to vape it, I said "Okay" and moved on (vape still in hand).
It's pretty rare for me to get any flack. I've been vaping a while now and have only received the "dirty look" once, (oh, and the "psychological cough") but the woman just moved away from me, and we left it at that. I don't even really "stealth" vape (other than just trying to not produce much vapor, and I don't) because my state has "no laws" on vaping yet, and an establishment can certainly ask me to stop, on their private property, but unless I did it repeatedly after being told once... .Well, I don't think anything bad would happen. I guess it all depends on situation and State laws AZ is pretty tolerant of vaping, and a lot of the college kids around here smoke and vape.
Anna
I discreetly vape most places (unless there is food involved, as I figure my vape smell could pollute things) and as a MTL vaper, it's very rare for me to get asked about it. I wander around with my vape in hand plenty of places. I've never been "caught" vaping and asked to stop except a the gem show, where I just had my vape in my hand a security guard passed by and told me not to vape it, I said "Okay" and moved on (vape still in hand).
It's pretty rare for me to get any flack. I've been vaping a while now and have only received the "dirty look" once, (oh, and the "psychological cough") but the woman just moved away from me, and we left it at that. I don't even really "stealth" vape (other than just trying to not produce much vapor, and I don't) because my state has "no laws" on vaping yet, and an establishment can certainly ask me to stop, on their private property, but unless I did it repeatedly after being told once... .Well, I don't think anything bad would happen. I guess it all depends on situation and State laws AZ is pretty tolerant of vaping, and a lot of the college kids around here smoke and vape.
Anna
a restaurant or bar may have initially had good intentions to allow vaping in their establishment ... then Vaping turned into this.
Dead on.
That is EXACTLY where the line gets crossed...
Cloud bros wrecked it for everyone...
Is what it is.
Honestly, I could never fully kick the smoking king habit until I first got my hands on juice guzzling sub ohm gear. Nothing else satisfied me the same way. I don’t deliberately make clouds, or set out to make bigger clouds. But it is a byproduct of the one thing in this world that allowed me to say good bye to a 20+ year two pack a day smoking habit.
I also resent being forced to stand out with all the smokers. I’m made it extremely difficult at first to move past that dual user phase at first. Now I can’t stand the smell of burning cigarettes. I resent that I’ve taken steps to improve not only my health, but the health of everyone else around me but am now forced back out into smoke filled patios and back ally doorways.
Bottom line, I fully support any business being allowed to have vaping. I say let them allow smoking as well if they desire. They don’t need any law beyond petty trespass laws to allow them to restrict activities on their premises or ask people to leave if they don’t conform. And I have the ability to choose to frequent establishments that allow or don’t allow activities according to my needs and preferences.
I also resent being forced to stand out with all the smokers. I’m made it extremely difficult at first to move past that dual user phase at first. Now I can’t stand the smell of burning cigarettes. I resent that I’ve taken steps to improve not only my health, but the health of everyone else around me but am now forced back out into smoke filled patios and back ally doorways.
Bottom line, I fully support any business being allowed to have vaping. I say let them allow smoking as well if they desire. They don’t need any law beyond petty trespass laws to allow them to restrict activities on their premises or ask people to leave if they don’t conform. And I have the ability to choose to frequent establishments that allow or don’t allow activities according to my needs and preferences.
The first argument to my stance will be ‘what about you h employees’... well, you also have the ability to choose where you work...
I don't mind or resent "standing with" the smokers in whatever smoking area. In this day and age, I am just happy that there "are" smoking areas still. I was a smoker for DECADES. How easy it is to forget that and claim the "moral high ground" because it is harm reduction. I LIVE with someone who is dual using, and should I get all moralistic on HIM, because he's having a hard time switching (he's not facing COPD either)??
This kind of entitlement attitude is what got vaping done in in the first place. When I received my first "Njoy" card with instructions on how to "explain" that vaping is fine and smoking "isn't" I was like, "This isn't going to go anywhere good."
The bottom line is that vaping is obnoxious to SOME people. They don't enjoy smelling my (exhaled from my mouth) visible fog, walking through it and etc. I will say, I think that the US went overboard in both smoking and vaping, and while I agree that second hand vaper is not harmful, I think it can be good to remember that everyone doesn't feel that way.
In my state, I can vape where I please (except hospitals or private businesses) and I don't "patronize" or "not" depending on their stance on vaping, I do my best to be polite (indoors) I don't stealth vape, if I'm on a plane I carry nic lozenges, and I don't see what is so "wrong" with being asked to be among the smokers (when requested) because I used to be one, smokers get to see more people vaping, etc., and I don't have an entitlement attitude that I am somehow "better" than a smoker. I am LUCKIER than a smoker in the sense that I was able to SWITCH.
Being among smokers gives me the chance to talk about vaping, not focusing on wanting a cigarette.
If more vapers had behaved a bit more politely, well, it may have delayed "vaper syndrome" where vaping was treated like smoking, but as far as I was concerned, it was INEVITABLE, it was really a matter of time and how popular vaping was going to get. While I don't ADORE US policy on vaping and feel that Britain treats it a bit better, well, they have limitations too.
Don't forget, vaping IS a modified tobacco product, and one that emits visible and odiferous fumes. I can understand people not wanting to be around that, and I think the middle ground is to do what one can for vaping advocacy, and continue to be "non obnoxious" in the hopes that vaping won't be policed away any further. When I vape, it is openly, and if ANYONE asks me to stop (indoors or outdoors) I will do so, and then move away from that person, etc.
Anna
This kind of entitlement attitude is what got vaping done in in the first place. When I received my first "Njoy" card with instructions on how to "explain" that vaping is fine and smoking "isn't" I was like, "This isn't going to go anywhere good."
The bottom line is that vaping is obnoxious to SOME people. They don't enjoy smelling my (exhaled from my mouth) visible fog, walking through it and etc. I will say, I think that the US went overboard in both smoking and vaping, and while I agree that second hand vaper is not harmful, I think it can be good to remember that everyone doesn't feel that way.
In my state, I can vape where I please (except hospitals or private businesses) and I don't "patronize" or "not" depending on their stance on vaping, I do my best to be polite (indoors) I don't stealth vape, if I'm on a plane I carry nic lozenges, and I don't see what is so "wrong" with being asked to be among the smokers (when requested) because I used to be one, smokers get to see more people vaping, etc., and I don't have an entitlement attitude that I am somehow "better" than a smoker. I am LUCKIER than a smoker in the sense that I was able to SWITCH.
Being among smokers gives me the chance to talk about vaping, not focusing on wanting a cigarette.
If more vapers had behaved a bit more politely, well, it may have delayed "vaper syndrome" where vaping was treated like smoking, but as far as I was concerned, it was INEVITABLE, it was really a matter of time and how popular vaping was going to get. While I don't ADORE US policy on vaping and feel that Britain treats it a bit better, well, they have limitations too.
Don't forget, vaping IS a modified tobacco product, and one that emits visible and odiferous fumes. I can understand people not wanting to be around that, and I think the middle ground is to do what one can for vaping advocacy, and continue to be "non obnoxious" in the hopes that vaping won't be policed away any further. When I vape, it is openly, and if ANYONE asks me to stop (indoors or outdoors) I will do so, and then move away from that person, etc.
Anna
ok... perhaps I was a little unclear... I don’t resent smokers, or feel morally superior to smokers... I resent the rules that give me no choice but to spend all my time with smokers in a similar way that a recovering alcoholic might resent a law that would force him to consume all beverages in a bar, lounge or night club...
Depends where you are. If you're in a train station in Germany you either don't vape or you stand with the smokers in a designated area
LOL Our train stations are not so large here in Southern IL here. All we have is an Amtrak and you board on an open platform, no designated smoking area.Depends where you are. If you're in a train station in Germany you either don't vape or you stand with the smokers in a designated area
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