Why do dual 18650 mods keep advertising as 200 watt devices?

[fenderstrat]

I love how everyone tells me how wrong I am,I then post manufacturers data for a 20 amp battery not a 30 that shows data proving my point and ...nada,it just gets glossed over we then start talking about 3 battery mods which has nothing to do with the original post or the original discussion....show me proven test data showing venting or failure of a 20 amp battery being used at 32 amps.because on every single battery thread it gets stated again and again how unsafe it is.I have provided at least a single document showing data, showing a battery being continuosly pulsed at higher amps and no indication of venting.and actually the testing is down to 1.5V if I remember well beyond normal vaping V
Its time this sillyness of random situations being considered unsafe for no reason other than some people think it is no matter what the actual data shows.
why does no one post about 150watts or 175 watts being unsafe but 200 watts is unsafe.
and for the record I have NEVER set either of my 200 watt devices at more than 50 watts.I just hate all this BS that gets posted about batteries every single day on this forum

 

[sonicbomb]

It's not BS it's valid safety advice. The point is that there is actually no need to push the cell beyond it's CDR unless you are trying to win a cloud comp.
Why are you so angry about this subject? It's up to everyone to set their own safety limits. If someone posts asking for my opinion on what I think is safe, I give it. If they choose to do so or not is up to them. If this doesn't sit well with you then keep it to yourself, no one is interested in your rabid ranting.

 

[beckdg]

I love how everyone tells me how wrong I am,I then post manufacturers data for a 20 amp battery not a 30 that shows data proving my point and ...nada,it just gets glossed over we then start talking about 3 battery mods which has nothing to do with the original post or the original discussion....show me proven test data showing venting or failure of a 20 amp battery being used at 32 amps.because on every single battery thread it gets stated again and again how unsafe it is.I have provided at least a single document showing data, showing a battery being continuosly pulsed at higher amps and no indication of venting.and actually the testing is down to 1.5V if I remember well beyond normal vaping V
Its time this sillyness of random situations being considered unsafe for no reason other than some people think it is no matter what the actual data shows.
why does no one post about 150watts or 175 watts being unsafe but 200 watts is unsafe.
and for the record I have NEVER set either of my 200 watt devices at more than 50 watts.I just hate all this BS that gets posted about batteries every single day on this forum

See blogs by Mooch, Baditude, IMFire, etc.

Consider the average person. Now consider the well below average person. This is your audience.

The people who are going to apply what you're saying... incorrectly... with no actual understanding... the only sentence they had the attention span to read... to an eBay rewrap marked as 35 amps with a 10 amp cell or worse inside.

If you take the time to reciprocate with legible, well written and supported info in a similar blog you can refer to, it would be better.

But you're not going to force these folks to ignore human nature to set aside their well crafted stances on battery safety.

It's common sense that common sense isn't so common.

Tapatyped

 

[beckdg]

Prime... and common... example...

To cut a long story short, the man behind the counter was running a tube mech, with no vent holes, at 0.09 Ohms, using a LG HE4.

Tapatyped

 

[Completely Average]

there is a wattage contest going on

Oh absolutely there is a wattage contest going on.

That's why the latest firmware for the Wismec RX200 boosted the maximum output to 250W rather than the stock 200W.

 

[fenderstrat]

when people quote my posts and tell me I am wrong I have every right to respond.If you dont want a response then dont quote me.
I asked a simple question why is vaping at 200 watts unsafe and so far all I got was "because we say it is" and "because you might have a short".Every single day this myth keeps getting continued on this forum and there is 0 data, yes, no one has posted any hard eveidence that 32 amps is outside the safe range of the battery.You say it is but have NOTHING to support this.
Also keep in mind that the 18650 has been around long before vaping,and been used in power tools, drills and such, are used much closer to vaping than a continuous discharge.Short, hard, high amp discharges and sure there may be some incidents,but for the most part cordless hand tools are being used safely
If you take the time to look at the data one of the parameters is a 65 amp burst for 5 seconds.this would be roughly the same as a 32.5 amp 10 second burst
edit...If I remember right it was the 45amp burst that was 5 sec,sorry I have like 3 data sheets I'm looking at

 

[beckdg]

when people quote my posts and tell me I am wrong I have every right to respond.If you dont want a response then dont quote me.
I asked a simple question why is vaping at 200 watts unsafe and so far all I got was "because we say it is" and "because you might have a short".Every single day this myth keeps getting continued on this forum and there is 0 data, yes, no one has posted any hard eveidence that 32 amps is outside the safe range of the battery.You say it is but have NOTHING to support this.
Also keep in mind that the 18650 has been around long before vaping,and been used in power tools, drills and such, are used much closer to vaping than a continuous discharge.Short, hard, high amp discharges and sure there may be some incidents,but for the most part cordless hand tools are being used safely
If you take the time to look at the data one of the parameters is a 65 amp burst for 5 seconds.this would be roughly the same as a 32.5 amp 10 second burst

How about...

Because people
Because fakes
Because rewraps

And because the One battery your quoting by far doesn't represent what's available in terms of risk.

Tapatyped

 

[fenderstrat]

have fun, I said what I had to say, I'm out

 

[tj99959]

My batteries survive quite nicely at ~8 watts ...... just sayin

Why would I even want to vape at ~200 watts when I can get the vape that I want at ~8 watts???

 

[Completely Average]

when people quote my posts and tell me I am wrong I have every right to respond.If you dont want a response then dont quote me.
I asked a simple question why is vaping at 200 watts unsafe and so far all I got was "because we say it is" and "because you might have a short".Every single day this myth keeps getting continued on this forum and there is 0 data, yes, no one has posted any hard eveidence that 32 amps is outside the safe range of the battery.You say it is but have NOTHING to support this.

What exactly would satisfy you? Do you want tests that prove that excessive heat damages the battery? Do you want tests that prove that these batteries generate excessive heat when run significantly higher than their continuous discharge amp rating (Or even slightly below their amp rating)

How about a single 2 second 40A pulse killing a battery?

Notice the green line on that chart? One 2 second pulse and the battery is dead.

Is that not enough? Then read some of Mooch's blogs. He's tested dozens if not hundreds of these batteries and has measured the temperatures they produce. Even at just 25A discharges the vast majority are exceeding 100C temperature, and that absolutely will damage the battery. Continuing to discharge batteries at this rate will result in eventual failure. The battery MIGHT simply stop accepting a charge, or it MIGHT vent, or it MIGHT even explode. Regardless, it WILL fail.

Here...

List of Battery Tests | E-Cigarette Forum

Do you believe that batteries that short out will never vent or explode? What exactly is a short? A continuous discharge with little to no resistance, resulting in an excessive amp drain, right? Isn't that precisely the same thing as we are discussing?

Also keep in mind that the 18650 has been around long before vaping,and been used in power tools, drills and such, are used much closer to vaping than a continuous discharge.Short, hard, high amp discharges and sure there may be some incidents,but for the most part cordless hand tools are being used safely

That's because cordless hand tools are designed with protective circuitry that makes it impossible to exceed the amp limit of the batteries inside them.

If you take the time to look at the data one of the parameters is a 65 amp burst for 5 seconds.this would be roughly the same as a 32.5 amp 10 second burst
edit...If I remember right it was the 45amp burst that was 5 sec,sorry I have like 3 data sheets I'm looking at

So, your claimed 32.5 amp 10 second burst is really a 22.5 amp 10 second burst, right?

And out of curiosity, does this data sheet you're looking at happen to show what happens when you push a 10 second 30amp burst through your 20A batteries a thousand times? Or is it just a single burst with no data on the resulting damage to the battery, and how much damaged is caused by continuous busts at that amp range?

How about we reverse your little game here. Do you actually have ANYTHING that shows that it is safe to exceed the amp limit by 50% or more for 5-10 seconds at a time on a regular basis, and not just one or two short bursts? Can you back YOUR claims up?

 

[sonicbomb]

have fun, I said what I had to say, I'm out

Bye

 

[Sil3nt]

I don't understand why people are so rustled over this lol.

 

[beckdg]

I don't understand why people are so rustled over this lol.

Ever seen a lithium battery vent?

Hold that in your hand tightly and put your lips on it.

Then decide if a 2,500 degree F, unfocused torch is something you'd encourage people to willingly expose their skin to.

It's serious. It's dangerous. Some people care about safety.

Now, I don't personally prescribe to keeping well below the CDR of all batteries at all times.

But I don't condone depending on the misinformation of rewrapped cells pulse claims to tell me how to set up my gear, either.

And I Damn sure don't condone suggesting others do what I won't do.

I have the knowledge... and a little bigger cojones... that most don't...

If I won't do it, I consider it somewhere between just unsafe and plane stupid.

Many who are knowledgeable are FAR MORE conservative than I. Suggest I take unnecessary risks.

Tapatyped

 

[tj99959]

I don't understand why people are so rustled over this lol.

That's easy:
When one blows up, how many days does it take to make the evening news?

Half the smokers I run into say "OH those things are dangerous".
So who should we blame for that?

 

[philbh]

A lot of it is because they can get away with it. Like the Shop-Vac with a 6 amp motor it says it has 5 horsepower.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

 

[philbh]

A lot of it is because they can get away with it. Like the Shop-Vac with a 6 amp motor it says it has 5 horsepower.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

Okay so now that I've read some of the other post I realized how ignorant that I sound. I was not considering the safety aspect.

Sent from my XT1060 using Tapatalk

 

[Mowgli]

JIC you didn't know...

Counterfeit/Low Grade LG HG2 Test Results

Pass that info on everywhere you can

 

[fenderstrat]

In the interest of fairness I just spent about 2 hours looking over MOOCHs tests and data.I was ready to say I was wrong if I was wrong and here he has tested most name brand batts at 30amps down to v well below vaping and they performed fine.there is one shootout where he pulsed them at 40 and 50 amps .If a battery can be pulsed at 50amps down to below 3v with no issues then I believe pulsing it at 32 is fine.
every time I get into a battery discussion I get "read moochs threads, read moochs threads" well some of you need to take your own advice the data clearly shows 30amp pulses and not causing much venting and if all these 200 watt devices are so dangerous why are we not seeing stories of batts venting solely because they were taxed because if it was happeneing we would see it here

 

[beckdg]

Selective reading
Predetermined conclusions
Omitting the human factor
Ignoring your realistic audience and the lowest common denominator

By combining these, the outcome is as obvious as it is if they were to not exist.

New cells
Confirmed authentic
Still sustaining damage under those conditions
When handled by a professional

The rest of us saw those pulse tests... AND the notes... AND idiots in the news... AND the new members sub-forum... AND ................

Tapatyped

 

[rice721]

OK so assuming a mod with dual batteries in series the voltage range is 4.2 x 2 to 3.2 x 2 which is 8.4V ~ 6.4V

Assuming you want to fire your mod to 200W

I = P / V
at full charge 8.4V: I = 200W / 8.4V = roughly 23.81Amps
at cut off 6.4V: I = 200W / 6.4V = roughly 31.25AMps

So in reality (in a 20A battery world) the most you should fire your mod would be
at full charge 8.4V: P = I x V = 20A x 8.4V = 168W
at cut off 6.4V: P = I x V = 20A x 6.4V = 128W

yeah, I know most of us know this, just wanted to do a quick napkin math in a thread