Why do I still smoke if Snus are so good ?

[exogenesis]

Mostly I can say at the moment is
thank god for Lab02 & TF minis

But why do I feel I get everything I need (& more) from these after 6 months,
but still have the need to smoke - about 10/day versus 25 up to the snus horizon.
(notwithstanding a 3 months period smoke-free on ecigs).

Now we all 'know' decent snus have all the MOAI, extra alkaloids & a lot more of them then ciggies....
so is it the psych. of the habit, the familiar devil, the smoke cue or what?

Don't feel the need to quit, for reasons of social mores, peer pressure or fear -
no health probs atm (except occasional morning hack), or any particular worries.

Don't feel any particular desire to carry on smoking either (esp. given the cost).... but I DO.

Never had a bad nic. reaction, even vaping 70mg/ml juice - but eventually got that desert effect,
strong snus can make me 'float' serenely for days,
but ciggies add nothing as far as I can tell.

SowhydoIdoit

 

[hittman]

That is definitely a good question exo. I had been asking myself the same thing not all that long ago when I would still smoke that one cigarette in the morning. No matter what snus, snuff, or vape I used, I still had to have that morning cigarette. I can't explain why or how but I finally broke myself of it. At first it was very difficult and just by chance, Wiz sent me some Molens macuba snuff to try. It seems to be a very strong nic content in this one so I would take two pinches of that first thing in the morning and then chain vape for about ten minutes. That got me past the morning craving and then I was fine the rest of the day with snus, snuff, and vape. I don't know if it was because it was something different or what but that trigger finally helped me to realize that I just don't want to smoke any more. I say that now and as you know it could change at any moment but I seem to have lost my desire for a cigarette. Maybe you will find that moment of change eventually. By the way, I know we don't really know each other but I kinda feel like I do after reading your posts in the "are we getting it thread".

 

[sunset]

Mostly I can say at the moment is
thank god for Lab02 & TF minis

But why do I feel I get everything I need (& more) from these after 6 months,
but still have the need to smoke - about 10/day versus 25 up to the snus horizon.
(notwithstanding a 3 months period smoke-free on ecigs).

Now we all 'know' decent snus have all the MOAI, extra alkaloids & a lot more of them then ciggies....
so is it the psych. of the habit, the familiar devil, the smoke cue or what?

Don't feel the need to quit, for reasons of social mores, peer pressure or fear -
no health probs atm (except occasional morning hack), or any particular worries.

Don't feel any particular desire to carry on smoking either (esp. given the cost).... but I DO.

Never had a bad nic. reaction, even vaping 70mg/ml juice - but eventually got that desert effect,
strong snus can make me 'float' serenely for days,
but ciggies add nothing as far as I can tell.

SowhydoIdoit

Exogenesis, Great Post and I want to thank you for all the research you did - I've learned so much from your posts.

I'm in the same boat in a way and a year into my merry-go-round with smoking,snus, snuff, e-cigarette. I can honestly say I never got ahead of my cravings and I got tired of fighting them after 7 months cigarette free. I sure tried.

I could use strong snus, snus back to back and snuff helped and a lot of both...but, never reached a satisfaction level.

It was actually freedom to give up the hand thing for a month and half when I thought the e-cigarette wasn't helping, but only using snus and snuff...so I know I didn't have that going on.

I haven't gone back to smoking, but rather using pipe tobacco in RYO. My new goal is to incorporate all three: snus, snuff and pipe tobacco.

I know I'm the type for high nicotine and high WTA...so I'm just living now with what works for me for maintenance and satisfaction, which includes pipe tobacco that fixed the cravings snus and snuff didn't even in mega doses. A year ago I would have had a fit to even think I'd end up here...what a merry-go-round!

Yet, I'm so glad to hear the success stories of those that it does work for and there are many, so this doesn't discourage anyone...we're all different and I'm glad I did get on the bandwagon to get off of cigarettes - yet I'm still on smoking a different type of tobacco from a different route...cravings.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Hi exo, ol' buddy . The best answer I have is I don't know. It's not the same, for sure. I found I fare better with occasional vaping for the stimulant effect that doesn't seem to occur with snus of any potency. In my 'baccy travels I've come to realize that in its various forms, tobacco has consistent results with the exception being when it's smoked. Snuff is consistent in that it's always briefly uplifting, but the effects are very short term and I've yet to chase away a nic craving with it. Snus is the long term fix for anxiety and the more I use, the more mellow I get. I have to use it with some restraint or I won't do anything else. Eliquid mildly stimulates me as long as I use it in moderation, otherwise it has no effect or too much acts as a sedative. I can predict the effects of these on me and I've trained myself when to use what without much thought, as long as my internal "mental monitor" is running in the background. The only time I feel a desire to smoke is when my "monitor" is in sleep mode. When I'm so absorbed in something for an extended time that all of a sudden I crave nicotine and some mind calming or I'll freak. Those times I have to think my way through the process of what I'm needing and the best way to get there without overdoing it. Aka self-control.

Cigarettes (ciggies for folks with funny accents ) almost seem to know what you need when you light one, be it calming or stimulating. They seem to be a lot more complex in effect than their smokeless counterparts. A possible answer to why you smoke without desire is that part of your brain keeps pulling you back to that time when a smoke was the satisfying fix. Sort of a Pavlov's dogs reaction. At the same time you're getting the things you need from snus, so the smoke won't have any effect. Kinda like if you smoke a cigarette, then light another one a minute after your through with the first, it's not gonna have any effect other than maybe burn your throat and congest your lungs, but no added good stuff.

Ultimately and unfortunately, for a lot of us it takes bunches of self-analysis into what we need....and no 2 people seem to be alike. I don't know why what works for me doesn't work for someone else, but it just doesn't. For most in this neck of the woods snus is the foundation, but it takes even more to tweak the loose ends. And even that can change over time.

I donno exo, but I'm glad to see ya around. Even with that creepy eye watching me. One thing you might try is move to New York, USA. $100-120 usd for a carton of smokes is a decent incentive 8-o.

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Hi sunset . Gee, maybe we ought to make this a reunion thread . Darn shame the smokeless stuff didn't do the job completely, but don't be a stranger. Bring your pipe and come on in, it looks relaxing .

 

[sunset]

Hi sunset . Gee, maybe we ought to make this a reunion thread . Darn shame the smokeless stuff didn't do the job completely, but don't be a stranger. Bring your pipe and come on in, it looks relaxing .

LOL - Hi, TV! Good seeing you back. I'm still around and read daily...following along, although I don't think I have much to contribute anymore. Except in the Pact Act thread as that stuff still twists and turns.

I still like to see my friends from the last year and how they're doing...good job, guys!

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

But it's no fun looking through the window. And everybody likes the smell of pipe 'baccy. I'd rather share a room with pipe smokers than chronic farters any day .

 

[Katya]

Instant gratification. Familiarity. Ease of use. Memories. Muscle memory.

When I need a crutch and I need it fast, a cig is it.

It's the tried and true thing. Everything else is still suspect.

It takes a long time to develop a new habit and then for that new habit to become second nature. But I find that the longer I vape and snus, and the more I like the eliquids and the PV I'm using, the less satisfying that cigarette becomes. I noticed that now when I sneak a cig, the feeling is more like "why did I have to have it?" as opposed to the earlier "Oh, God, I really needed this."

So there is hope for us. It really takes time to reprogram our brains.

 

[hittman]

But it's no fun looking through the window. And everybody likes the smell of pipe 'baccy. I'd rather share a room with pipe smokers than chronic farters any day .

Did someone page me? Seriously though, as I read thru your other post, my lightbulb lit over my head. I think the reason I couldn't give up that morning cigarette was that I needed that immediate fix and didn't think that anything else would do it. I kicked myself for a long time about that cig in the morning and felt relieved when I finally didn't need it.

Sunset, don't be a stranger. If a pipe is what it takes then so be it. We are glad to have you here. I used some small cigars for a while to get me thru hard times. I just didn't inhale. We have never been a group of people that judges each other and aren't starting any time soon. Besides, I like the smell of pipe tobacco too.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

 

[exogenesis]

OK guys, cheers for the beers,
all that researchy psuedo-science stuff seems like a previous life, unresolved questions still about some things tho...

Interesting TV, so you're saying I'm a dog with no self control then
But you're right a real smoke seems a complex affair, more to it than I can fathom, got a hold I can't easily break it seems,
maybe it's only total self-denial that will really work, can't see me getting there somehow.

Was listening to myself think, while watching myself reach & light a cig.,
felt like I was filling in time between being able to cope with snafflin the next Lab02,
but knowing the cig. isn't really going to do much for me.
Perhaps we need to think 'o god why am I about to do this', rather than the after the fact thing Katya.

So why not use an ecig to fill in with then ? - I mean I've got 500+ worth of gear?, maybe I'm mega lazy,
maybe it's the the thought of all that battery chargin & liquid mixing & cleaning & naff pseudo-smoke.
Whatever, still some part of me gets a little satisfied with the real deal in between the real real deal.


Think you're saying TV that this burning coal in front of me is my enemy & my friend at the same time, I know it, it knows me,
(or at least my brain/body reacts something like that). Devil that knows me, an old friend.

btw $100 for 200 sound same-ish as here (£6+ for 20), mind you petrol (gas to you) is around $14 a gallon here in UK,
maybe we can swap.



Wish I had your resolve sunset & hittman, trouble is I know we don't (at least I don't) feel any different after a while off cigs.,
just a little less poor.
Wish we could all feel 10 years younger after quitting, that would keep the resolve going I reckon

 

[hittman]

Isn't that true exo. I wouldn't say I have the resolve that you speak of. I am just in a good place with my addiction right now. As all of us here know, that could change any moment. I will most likely never consider myself a non smoker. I'm taking it a day at a time and hope it leads me to where I want to be. My dad was a lifetime smoker and has to use oxygen. That's not the place I want to be in another 20-30 years.

Sent from my HERO200 using Tapatalk

 

[TWISTED VICTOR]

Katya, you're so right about developing habits. In my case, as is with most probably, I started in my formative years and all through adulthood. It's as much a part of me as my brown eyes. It's begrudgingly forced aside as opposed to going away or changing to a different one. And healthier habits are harder to take hold, like how a greasy cheeseburger hits the spot better than carrots. That's why I'm not a fitness buff, exercise isn't as fun as loafing on the forum .

hit, that morning smoke and the ones after meals are still the ones that float just vaguely out of my vision.

exo, that's a good point on feeling better. What an incentive. I see all the folks talk about all their energy, feeling great, all the gray hair turned back to color, better sex, .....well sir, my energy level is about 50% of what it was, every pain seems a little more magnified, my chin whiskers look like a upside down snow-capped mountain, and sex.....well, I'm still a tiger for about 20 seconds...... Yep, I wish I could boast a list of improvements, but all can say is my chest doesn't have a rattle anymore and I don't smell. Ok, I don't smell the same as I used to. But I'm surely healthier...maybe. But at least I don't annoy my wife with smoking. That counts for a lot since I'm freer to annoy her in other ways. Anyway, it'd be a lot easier if I had all those other things to consider as incentives, but I don't. I can smell a smoke being lit behind a barn 3 miles away, but other than that, my sense of smell and taste aren't any different than before either. At this point I'm just figuring on some day I will feel better and be a 30 second tiger. Sometimes I think a lifetime of smoking must take years for some of us to turn around, but we can do it and eventually reap some solid benefits.

And I didn't mean you're a dog with no self-control. Just one with a funny accent.....aye .........

 

[hittman]

It's funny you mentioned it but I have noticed that I can smell cigarette smoke like that too. I went shopping with the kids and could smell smoke in the parking lot from someone smoking from a few isles away.

 

[exogenesis]

Truthfully that's one drawback I found of being off cigs. for a while,
I could smell all the nasty smells of the modern world, particularly vehicle
exhaust (everyday walk to work along a busy road).

Taste too, get all those unfamiliar nuances coming to the fore,
especially bitterness of additives like saccharin.

Maybe that's part of it then,
still smoking as in defensive smoking to numb my senses against all that.

The 'gained a lot of energy' claim, is that just cos of better breathing &
oxygen levels giving longer before shortness of breath you think?
As for grey hair turning back to colour, er - yeah sure


Chest rattle I found disappeared at some critical level of smokes per day,
like it develops at 25/day but goes at 10 to 15/day, maybe it's just whatever
the body's lung-clearing can just about cope with.


I guess having someone near to you suffer the worst physical outcomes
of smoking is a pretty good incentive to quit hittman.

Trouble is we're all indestructable - until we destruct

 

[Stubby]

Aien't it the truth

YouTube - Coffee and Cigarettes - Tom Waits & Iggy Pop

 

[hittman]

Stubby that was a really cool video. Thanks.

Exo, up until about a year or so ago I thought I was indestructible and had no intention of ever quitting cigarettes. I was getting the warning signs at 38 after smoking for 23 years. I knew I had to do something but didn't know what. I'm still not sure I know what.

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[Hellen A. Handbasket]

LOL That was pretty great Stubby. I love Iggy.

Yeah, I'm sitting at that table myself right now. Only a few a day, but it's medicinal and is keeping my head screwed on straight these days. It still tastes/smells like ... and (thankfully) I don't enjoy it a bit.

 

[hittman]

Helen if that's what it takes for you to hold yourself together then so be it. I have slipped before and perhaps will again but at least we know that we are trying and that to go back to smoking full time is not an option that we are willing to accept. From what I know, you have an immense amount of stress going on in your life right now and if those few cigarettes let you hold the pieces together right now, just think of it as a stepping stone to a better place.

 

[Hellen A. Handbasket]

*hug* Thanks Hitt. Yeah, the situation I could (sort of) deal with, but not what the stress was doing to my health. Something had to give.

I had to let go of the guilt over it. Talked to my husband about it (couldn't stand him not knowing) and thankfully, he's supportive of my decision (happy wife/happy life ). I decided the key is moderation and no more than is really necessary and 2 or 3 a day seems to work fine. I know I'll get back on track eventually.

 

[rothenbj]

I see what the difficulty is, you're all too young and haven't smoked long enough to really appreciate not smoking. Put 43 years on your lungs, start coughing and wheezing (never had the problem other than occasional smoker's cough until FSC became fashionable) and see how excited you are about having that next ciggie.

I'm not saying I'll never have another smoke. In fact I was at a bar yesterday and my favorite bartender had a pack of my old brand sitting right in front of me. Tomorrow will mark my six month anniversary of my last drag and I was curious about how it might taste. Thirty seconds of thinking about it and I decided that it would be better to wait until the one year mark. Who knows how I'll feel six months from now.

No one should be hard on themselves though, except me of course. I started vaping over a year ago and went from 2-3 packs a day to about a half dozen and hung there for about a half year. I wasn't personally happy about that, but it got worse as that last month I started edging up to closer to a half pack a day. That's when I seriously started looking at snus.

The snus was my salvation, but as most of the posts agree, everyone is different. I think it was TV that mentioned the mellowness you can get from it. For you young 'uns that definitely can be a problem. For me, I can just decide on a mellow day and veg in and out of some of the most amazing dreams without worrying about not doing something.

You do pick up some smells that could just as easily be avoided, I never realized how smelly the road really is until I hopped on my bike and catch the mix of gas and diesel. I can only imagine what that stuff might be doing to everyone's lungs. However, the anti's have convinced the world that the only harm to their health comes from second hand smoke. Even when I smoked, there were perfumes that would gag me, but now I sometimes need to move away they're so obnoxious. Makes you wonder why some of these anti-smoking nazis can't do the same.

However, the smell of fresh cut grass is great, I'll catch the smell of different vegetation when I'm riding that is extremely pleasant. I've even caught the sweet smell of that stuff we must not mention as I passed through and area and just have to smile. No wonder it's so easy for law enforcement to find it.

What I really wanted to say is don't beat yourself up over whatever you're doing unless you really feel you need to. I felt I needed to. I've read the threads and posts about the snuff and wondered how that would be. Then I went, nah, I like my nose actually being used for breathing again. However, for those that like it and it helps, have fun.

I got involved with my PV and later the snus after I had given up trying to give up. I just stumbled into it then stumbled onto this site, the crawled across the tracks to here. I'd spend a lot more time over hear if I wasn't so ticked off at our government for not telling us the truth about smokeless and their insistence that they'll keep their little circle of money generation going.

I don't normally post over here every day, but I'm normally keeping up on what's going on every couple days. Just don't beat yourself up.