Why do vapers expect to be treated differently than smokers?

[CosmicladyP]

I agree that vaping is different than regular smoking. I have been vaping for only a month or so and I just politely ask if I can vape. I would not vape in restaurants or the theater either. In a bar I usually ask if they allow vaping. I found that most servers, bartenders don't really know the answer to that so I leave it alone. Have to say I so enjoy vaping.

 

[Robino1]

Like I've said many times, when I smoked I didn't fight the bans because I believed that smoking was harmful to myself and others around me that I love. I will fight for vaping because it is THE ONLY thing between me and smoking again.

Common sense goes a long way in dealing with JohnQPublic. You will run into ANTZ type people that will NEVER acknowledge that vaping is a viable alternative to all the other nicotine replacement therapy's that just.do.not.work. Arguing with them will not change their mind. MOST people that we run into are common sense people that can understand when things are explained to them. The more of the common sense people we educate, the less chance that the ANTZ will have to control them.

As far as why we should be treated differently from smokers? Because we are Not smokers. We do not BURN tobacco and paper. We choose a different method to deliver our nicotine. I have made the decision to vape after researching and realizing this is a SAFER method without giving up that other habit we all have......the one involving the hand to mouth habit. For myself it is a reduced harm alternative. We are the ones that people will be researching to see what the repercussions are, if any, because we are in the infancy stage of vaping. We will be the control group for those studies that take years to assess.

There are people on this forum that have been vaping 5 years. They are the ones that we should all look at to see what health consequences there may or may not be. The ones that I have seen posting have not had any health issues and if anything they are healthier than when they began vaping.

CASAA fights for the consumers rights to keep vaping a viable option for quitting smoking. They are also trying desperately to get our stories in a format that can be shown to lawmakers that vaping IS Working. It works even for those that had no intention of quitting smoking. Please, if you were successful in making the switch, tell your story. I have, won't you?

I will fight with everything I have in me to keep this legal. Please help by joining and adding your voice. The more voices we have, the better chance we have of keeping it legal and in a capacity that works. If they (ANTZ, BT and BP) succeed in their quest, we won't even have a chance to prove that it is relatively to completely harmless. If it becomes illegal, then how will we ever find out?

thanks for reading this rambling at times post

 

[e-pipeman]

There are people on this forum that have been vaping 5 years. They are the ones that we should all look at to see what health consequences there may or may not be. The ones that I have seen posting have not had any health issues and if anything they are healthier than when they began vaping.

Well, I know for a fact that I am healthier today than I was pre-vaping. I can walk faster and breathe more easily. I get fewer colds and infections. I am BETTER for not just not smoking but for vaping instead. Of course I can't point to any empirical evidence for making this assertion other than my own private study of myself since starting to vape. What I can say based on this study is that imho this really works. I am happier and healthier than I was before, despite being considerably older. Ymmv.

 

[newbie85]

I know it's safe. I read anything and everything before I started so I could make an informed decision. Turned out to be an easy one. However, asking the general public to accept a very small independent study or two and just say "sounds good. Vape everywhere and anywhere" isn't possible. If vaping came before cigarettes then it would be a whole different ballgame.

I think the overall acceptance has made excellent progress in the push towards mainstream acceptance but it's still a touchy subject for many non smokers. I wasn't trying to minimize the need to push back and explain in my post. I think it came off that way. Way too many people are ignorant and could care less about any study. It just looks like a duck therefore you cannot do that is something that we just have respect even though it's aggravating as you know what. It's futile to argue with those folks and they're prolific.

Seems like most everyone (at least in this forum) is quite respectful of others. That's pretty huge. Each curious onlooker that gets educated about it is a small victory and a teeny step towards what we all want and know. But until a big public study is done and *proven* safe we all just have deal with getting lumped with smokers more often than we want. No biggie. I've stealth vaped pretty much anywhere I want and vaping in the house is divine so personally, I feel like I have plenty of freedom already.

My wife was really nervous when she went on a business trip and had to ride with coworkers for 4 hours in a car. She knew she had to either explain and ask or suck it up and go vapeless. She explained and asked and was met with huge open arms in the car. She said the group was fascinated. The all wanted to try it for giggles because it smelled good but nobody smoked and she didn't have any zero nic.

At the hotel she figured she would try it in the lobby and bar. Not one single person cared and many were fascinated. Strangers were asking to try it in the bar and she had an extra cigalike with ry4 that got passed around until the batt died. Just like everybody else's positive experience, I was thrilled with the story but I know it doesn't always work out like that. Our time is coming but we're not there yet so patience is required. We're winning tiny battles but the big victory won't come until the government deems it safe and publicly declares it.

just my little opinion...for those understanding,we no need to explain,for those not understanding,explain also useless...lazy to explain to them anymore...yes,sometime i vape with smoker in smoking area...

 

[Bob Chill]

Before I comment further on this, I just want to check...

Are you aware that "the government" is totally against electronic cigarettes and would continue to be even if they KNEW they were safe?
I'm talking about the FDA, the CDC, and any other agencies that are in a position to endorse electronic cigarettes.

Absolutely aware but their hand will be forced on this one IMO. BT/BP will make sure of that. BT already knows that vaping is the biggest threat to their crack dealing monopoly and so does BP. BT/BP also realize they can make a ton of money with the nic part of vaping.

The armchair jury is mostly in on the health aspect of vaping. It's only a matter of time before the real gears start turning. I find the entire subject fascinating. Knowing what I know about how things work between powerful corps and the gov leads me to believe their is a potentially likely outcome down the road.

I woudn't be surprised IF vaping is deemed safe by our crooked gov agencies that the scenario will work something like this:

BT/BP grabs a monopoly on nic extraction. Growers keep growing, tax man takes their slice, and the nic in the juice is where the hammer comes down. It's not like you can remove pg/vg/flavorings from the market. The only stranglehold will be the nic part. If you want nic you will pay BT/BP/Taxman for it. There's huge margins in the nic juice part. There is already. That will be a very interesting chain of events if it happens that way. Not a good type of interesting but interesting nonetheless.

BT floods the shelves with their heavily advertised and pretty products and off they go. Many folks will be satisfied with those products. They'll be much better than the blu/njoy stuff we see now. The machine keeps turning.

We can already roll our own smokes and brew our own beer but only a few actually do it. We just go to the store and buy a carton and a 30 pack and move on. I don't see how vaping would be any different in this scenario for the majority of folks.

The biggest threat imo is nic juice regulation and what happens to the current vendors. I can see internet sales being halted with anything that contains nic. They could potentially be restricted to selling the flavors only and the gear. That would be devastating and I pray we don't see it but my instincts are telling me otherwise.

I suppose it's a careful for what you wish for scenario. We all want vaping to be accepted and mainstream so the general public stops being a bunch of narrow minded idiots. But the price of that acceptance will come with the regulatory hammer that keeps the nic part of the habit in BT/BP's hands. I sure hope I'm wrong but I can't see it happening any other way.

 

[XeniaMike]

It was shocking to me when smokers started getting banned in the first place. I grew up in a time when you could smoke anywhere.

I do understand some of the restrictions. They make sense. But, many of them do not.

If we're not smoking, why should we be treated as if we were? Even smokers should have more rights than they are given nowadays. It's gotten to the point that smokers are being treated as if they don't even have the right to exist at all.

IOW they really should have a good reason before they restrict anyone's legal rights. Not just because they feel like it.

Where I draw the line at PC idiocy is telling people they can't smoke outdoors. I understand non-smokers not wanting to breathe smoke, I totally get that. But outside? Better tell people not to burn gasoline, too. And no more pesky wildfires, volcanos, and let's outlaw ozone.

 

[Gematria]

BT/BP grabs a monopoly on nic extraction. Growers keep growing, tax man takes their slice, and the nic in the juice is where the hammer comes down. It's not like you can remove pg/vg/flavorings from the market. The only stranglehold will be the nic part. If you want nic you will pay BT/BP/Taxman for it. There's huge margins in the nic juice part. There is already. That will be a very interesting chain of events if it happens that way. Not a good type of interesting but interesting nonetheless.

I may be uneducated on the matter, but what would the rationale be for taxing nicotine itself?

At least here (Denmark), the reason the government is allowed to tax tobacco products is to cover healthcare expenses since tobacco has proven adverse effects.

 

[Bob Chill]

I may be uneducated on the matter, but what would the rationale be for taxing nicotine itself?

At least here (Denmark), the reason the government is allowed to tax tobacco products is to cover healthcare expenses since tobacco has proven adverse effects.

Couple glaring reasons in the US are grabbing back the lost revenue and addictive vices are always taxed. Alcohol, tobacco, and gambling keep our country alive.

 

[TommyTurtle]

The wife and I started Vapin after she was admitted for emergency surgery. The doctors and nurses all praised us for be able to do it after smoking for as long as we had. We were free to walk the halls and Vape freely all over the hospital. There were a couple of nurses who came in because another patient who was there also Vaped, but... He was from out of town with no charger and no juice. I told them to bring me his setup, I charged and refilled it and got him going again which made life easier for him... this was a real eye opener when the healthcare professionals look at Vaping like this. Now for the other " Officials" their time will come...

 

[DC2]

Absolutely aware but their hand will be forced on this one IMO. BT/BP will make sure of that. BT already knows that vaping is the biggest threat to their crack dealing monopoly and so does BP. BT/BP also realize they can make a ton of money with the nic part of vaping.

The armchair jury is mostly in on the health aspect of vaping. It's only a matter of time before the real gears start turning. I find the entire subject fascinating. Knowing what I know about how things work between powerful corps and the gov leads me to believe their is a potentially likely outcome down the road.

I woudn't be surprised IF vaping is deemed safe by our crooked gov agencies that the scenario will work something like this:

BT/BP grabs a monopoly on nic extraction. Growers keep growing, tax man takes their slice, and the nic in the juice is where the hammer comes down. It's not like you can remove pg/vg/flavorings from the market. The only stranglehold will be the nic part. If you want nic you will pay BT/BP/Taxman for it. There's huge margins in the nic juice part. There is already. That will be a very interesting chain of events if it happens that way. Not a good type of interesting but interesting nonetheless.

BT floods the shelves with their heavily advertised and pretty products and off they go. Many folks will be satisfied with those products. They'll be much better than the blu/njoy stuff we see now. The machine keeps turning.

We can already roll our own smokes and brew our own beer but only a few actually do it. We just go to the store and buy a carton and a 30 pack and move on. I don't see how vaping would be any different in this scenario for the majority of folks.

The biggest threat imo is nic juice regulation and what happens to the current vendors. I can see internet sales being halted with anything that contains nic. They could potentially be restricted to selling the flavors only and the gear. That would be devastating and I pray we don't see it but my instincts are telling me otherwise.

I suppose it's a careful for what you wish for scenario. We all want vaping to be accepted and mainstream so the general public stops being a bunch of narrow minded idiots. But the price of that acceptance will come with the regulatory hammer that keeps the nic part of the habit in BT/BP's hands. I sure hope I'm wrong but I can't see it happening any other way.

Okay, we are mostly on the same page, except that I would describe your scenario as more of a loss than a victory.

I really feel that it is questionable whether or not Big Tobacco would provide the kinds of products vapers REALLY need to stay off cigarettes.
And I am concerned that regulation will eliminate flavors, and severely restrict the nicotine strength to ineffective levels.

Yes, there will be people who can struggle through with tobacco-only flavored 4mg strength...
But the majority of smokers in that scenario might never be able to make the switch.

And in the end, that is exactly what all the parties involved really want.
Well, all of them except us of course.

 

[RosaJ]

I may be uneducated on the matter, but what would the rationale be for taxing nicotine itself?

At least here (Denmark), the reason the government is allowed to tax tobacco products is to cover healthcare expenses since tobacco has proven adverse effects.

That was the reason cigarettes started getting taxed here too, however, the States started using the funds to "educate" the public and the only ones that seem to benefit from cigarette taxes was Hollywood by spending it on commercials. The States are not obligated to solely spend the money on the healthcare of smokers or anyone else for that matter. Maybe the Big Pharmaceutical companies get their share because they came up with the patches, gum, Chantix, etc. Some States spend the money they get on things that aren't even related to smoking. That's why local and federal agencies are so against losing revenue from diminishing sales of cigarettes.

 

[DC2]

I may be uneducated on the matter, but what would the rationale be for taxing nicotine itself?

At least here (Denmark), the reason the government is allowed to tax tobacco products is to cover healthcare expenses since tobacco has proven adverse effects.

There won't be any justifiable rationale for it, but I am afraid they will not need to justify it.
They only way they will be forced to justify it is if WE make them, and if we MAKE them they won't be able to.

 

[Bob Chill]

Okay, we are mostly on the same page, except that I would describe your scenario as more of a loss than a victory.

I really feel that it is questionable whether or not Big Tobacco would provide the kinds of products vapers REALLY need to stay off cigarettes.
And I am concerned that regulation will eliminate flavors, and severely restrict the nicotine strength to ineffective levels.

Yes, there will be people who can struggle through with tobacco-only flavored 4mg strength...
But the majority of smokers in that scenario might never be able to make the switch.

And in the end, that is exactly what all the parties involved really want.
Well, all of them except us of course.

It is a loss and I know it's in the back of everyone's mind here. As soon as I think the hammer on the vape community is even being considered I'm going to buy as much unflavored nic juice as I can possibly use before it goes bad. I have a great dedicated ice box and I'll use the latest and greatest packing tech to freeze it.

I've seen enough damaging regulation come out of our crooked gov to know that it happens quick and with little warning. I lost a successful business I ran for 10 years because of Dodd/Frank. It was awful and had a deep impact on my life and 15 wonderful long time employees.

The bigger the vape community gets the more attention it gets. I would love to see it simply continue as it stands today but I think the odds against are pretty large.

 

[e-pipeman]

It is a loss and I know it's in the back of everyone's mind here. As soon as I think the hammer on the vape community is even being considered I'm going to buy as much unflavored nic juice as I can possibly use before it goes bad. I have a great dedicated ice box and I'll use the latest and greatest packing tech to freeze it.

I've seen enough damaging regulation come out of our crooked gov to know that it happens quick and with little warning. I lost a successful business I ran for 10 years because of Dodd/Frank. It was awful and had a deep impact on my life and 15 wonderful long time employees.

The bigger the vape community gets the more attention it gets. I would love to see it simply continue as it stands today but I think the odds against are pretty large.

Once you use nicotine the chemistry of your brain changes. This is fine - the same thing happens with coffee and, to a lesser extent, tea. We cannot ban stimulants simply because they work. The thing that will interrupt our vaping habit is the perception that it is similar to smoking. Because of years of health education/propaganda our benign habit will be measured alongside the killer that is tobacco smoking. Sad, but true.

 

[Scottmeier360]

You can lump me in with smokers when tar starts filling the air from my vapor.

Agreed, I bring my APV (or whatever i left the house with) with me everywhere i go, inside or out...HOWEVER, I dont just go into applebees and start blowing it in peoples faces. I wouldnt say i'm a stealth vaper either, tho, I dont chain vape inside places either. I tend to take a couple toots every now and then and blow it under the table or somewhere it isnt drifting in massive clouds accross the way. I balance the respect between everyone quite well...hell, anyone remember those little gold stamped ahstrays at Mc D's?!?!?! LMAO hard to believe how much times have changed in our time...if you even THINK about lighting up within 50 feet of a door or window here, it's a $60 ticket. Anyhoo, for now I can vape inside, and i WILL vape inside...and nobody seems to care at all (atleast around here) in fact it creates curiosity most of the time. People wanted to ban analogs due to health and smell issues, and now that we have cured the health and smell issues, we sit and wait until the whiners to find something else to whine about

 

[e-pipeman]

I thought that this thread had been closed.

 

[ricks]

Does anyone else hate the word "toot"? To me this word is used when my kids farted when they were babies. I call it a hit or vape or anything else. Just curious.

 

[Wea0versd]

I do not believe vapers should be labeled the same as smokers.

 

[DC2]

Does anyone else hate the word "toot"? To me this word is used when my kids farted when they were babies. I call it a hit or vape or anything else. Just curious.

There are TONS of people that want to puke when they hear the word "toot"...
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-smoking-discussion/355018-tooting.html

When I hear that word, I think of mullet-headed douchebags in Arkansas...