Why do vapers expect to be treated differently than smokers?

[wv2win]

I smoked for decades. I smoked in the days when it was acceptable everywhere -- stores, restaurants, planes, offices. I chain-smoked in my own office and carried my ashtray to the conference room for meetings. I was the head of my department and my mostly non-smoking subordinates put up with my constant blue fog ... and stayed quiet about it. Because every officer of the company also smoked.

As times changed, I very reluctantly changed with them. When the big boss finally said, "We smoke only in the smoking area from now on," I did as I was told, though I was less productive because I took so many breaks. When the law said, "No more smoking in these public indoor places," I grumbled, but I complied. When the law went further and said, "No more smoking in these public outdoor places," I ranted at the hypocrisy and injustice, but I complied. I sought out places where I was still allowed to smoke. And I became increasingly aggressive if someone asked me not to smoke in those places, even when the request was polite and respectful. If the request was less than polite, so was I.

Six months ago, I became a vaper. I do not smoke. I no longer behave as if I were a smoker.

So far as I (or anyone else to date) can determine, my exhaled vape is not dangerous to others and is no more likely to irritate even an asthmatic than heavy perfume or aftershave. Its sometimes lingering odor is certainly less offensive than body odors or cooking smells we encounter daily. For me, vaping serves the same function as chewing nicotine gum or using a prescribed nicotine inhaler, but is significantly more effective.

So I vape anywhere I would chew gum, wear scents, or sweat. I vape in stores, restaurants, bars and auditoriums, but not in spaces where other people are very close, because exhaling obviously into a stranger's breathing space is rude, even without the plume of vapor. I have NEVER been approached and asked to stop. I have often been asked, "Is that one of those electronic cigarettes? Do they really work?" and I am always happy to take that cue to educate and evangelize on behalf of vaping.

How would I react if I were asked to stop? I'm not sure. I'm inclined to think I would start a conversation, the tone of which would depend on the asker's attitude and reason. We'll see when it happens, I guess.

In the meantime, I will vape on.

I like your thinking and your common sense. It seems to be in short supply.

 

[classwife]

so...it is now ok to piss people off...if they ask you to stop doing something that is bothering them... and you don't want to stop ??

Really ? Where did courtesy go ?

This mentality astounds me, it truly does.

 

[wv2win]

And I would like to add...

Thanks to the OP for stating his case in a respectful and non-confrontational manner.
And I would like to thank most of the people who replied in opposition for giving me faith in the future of humanity.

I'm afraid the more I read ECF, my belief that the average person has basic common sense has been diminished. It's being replaced by "sheep think" and fear of what other's think. If it wasn't for your consistent good common sense DC and the few others like peak and kat who commented, I would lose all belief in critical thinking and common sense in the average person.

Edit: I went back and read more of the pervious comments more closely. I feel better now, seeing that there were quite a few well thought out comments on why we should not act or be made to feel like we are still smokers.

 

[Azmo]

so...it is now ok to piss people off...if they ask you to stop doing something that is bothering them... and you don't want to stop ??

Really ? Where did courtesy go ?

This mentality astounds me, it truly does.

No offense, I totally agree with courtesy, but where does it end? There are people whose voice grates my nerves. Should I ask them to stop talking?

I find nothing more obnoxious then when I am out to dinner with friends or family and there is someone at another table yapping on their cellphone. So how long before cellphones are banned in restaurants?

 

[wv2win]

so...it is now ok to piss people off...if they ask you to stop doing something that is bothering them... and you don't want to stop ??

Really ? Where did courtesy go ?

This mentality astounds me, it truly does.

There is a difference between being discourteous in another person's basic personal space (in their face) and being in their general proximity and not doing anything to harm them or interfere with them. I wouldn't vape in an elevator or in a taxi. But I would vape in a large building atrium. I find it offensive for someone to wear too much perfume, but I don't tell them to go home and take a bath. I also find it offensive when someone is on the elevator having a conversation on their cell phone. I don't tell them to shut up, either.

Vaping openly in most places but respectfully with common sense works well for me.

 

[wv2win]

I think it is common for new vapers to feel this way at first.
It takes awhile to overcome the brainwashing.

I agree. What concerns me is the "brainwashing" is continuing on ECF.

 

[MarblesXIII]

Figure something like 25% of people smoke or vape, that means that 75% of people don't want anything to do with smoking or vaping. They simply don't care if vaping is harmful or not ... they don't want to be around it.

Of that 75% there are plenty who don't care what you do. Just like I have non-smoking friends who did not care if I smoked or not when I did smoke.

If something I do harms you, tell me I'll stop. If some thing I do bugs you because its noisy, stinks or in itself rude, tell me I'll stop. If you don't like how something I do looks to you, then you need to leave me alone and stop looking at me.

 

[HOPS]

Also, the "appeal to authority" fallacy is especially dangerous with "the *Scientific Community." Especially when (in the US at least) that amounts to the FDA; an overreaching bureaucracy proven to favor the interest of big business over science and plain old common sense in almost every case. Remember, this "Scientific Community" approved tobacco in the first place.

Could not agree more!!! And as for the OP's point on the statement that "our right to vape is in jeaprody", this is the root of that statement. It's not about the right to vape inside public places, it's about the ability to buy juice and hardware without the government extorting us, wait sorry, I mean "taxing" e-cig supplies...

 

[dnakr]

Until non smokers have an open mind we will always have a battle to fight. How many on this forum believe that they are a "non smoker" but believe they should comply with the same restrictions smokers have? If that is the case then why are we fighting the FDA?

We are the ones that should be informing the general public about the differences - not conforming with them. It would defeat the purpose of why the e-cig was even invented.

We chose to vape for our health, not because it's cool. We are not smokers and the vapor is not dangerous to those around us.

 

[wv2win]

I read in a post yesterday that it was "bad form" to vape where smoking is not allowed. Today I read we should not vape in no smoking areas....why? Sounds like the bad form comment.
One of the reasons I started vaping is because of the NO Smoking zealots. Vaping, if you're not blowing huge clouds or blowing it into someones face not very different than wearing perfume. (PG allergy may be an exception.)
These people took the decision out of the business owners hands and decided ALL establishments were to be NON smoking. Now they have sidewalks, parks, beaches....with no scientific justification. It's only going to get worse if we don't stand up for ourselves.
Playing their game is not going to get them to change sides it only empowers that mentality. I believe in being courteous and conscious of other peoples rights and if asked out in public I will politely explain vaping. Depending on the result, I will either put it away, leave or vape on. We, as a group, have to stop cowering. Vaping in public brings new awareness and converts therefore growing our numbers and helping others get off cigs.

Well stated, good common sense.

 

[wv2win]

Until non smokers have an open mind we will always have a battle to fight. How many on this forum believe that they are a "non smoker" but believe they should comply with the same restrictions smokers have? If that is the case then why are we fighting the FDA?

We are the ones that should be informing the general public about the differences - not conforming with them. It would defeat the purpose of why the e-cig was even invented.

We chose to vape for our health, not because it's cool. We are not smokers and the vapor is not dangerous to those around us.

You are right on the mark!

 

[Talyon]

Just as Alcoholics who give up the drink are still referred to as Alcohlics and I understand the reasoning behind this, my Dad died because of his alcoholism. I'm not a Smoker, Im a Vaper, I Vape respectfully and courtesy however when I'm out doors in the open I well not be told to stop Vapeing by anyone, I'm also sure I won't be asked.

I'm sick and tired of being treated as a second class citizen, and well use every resource at my disposal to win this fight for our right to Vape. I'll do my best not to deter anyone else's rights but what right of there's am I infringing upon by my Vapeing.

I'm also convinced with today's technology we don't need 20-30 year stupid studies to know if Vapeing well kill.

It amazes me the amount of people who come in here worried about liquids and rigs being harmful etal. Yet if I believe their stories that they smoked a PAD for x amount of years they were nor as worried about smoking??. Yes I know smoking is addictive and some consider it a disease even, so it's not our fault we smoked. So why should I worry about Vapeing, I don't. Did I worry about smoking, Nope but I knew I would quit one day as death comes to us all. Luckily Vape came my way first.

I'd rather Vape then try hauling on my tailpipe. I'm pretty sure I know which would kill me first.

I fix Machines because it's illegal to fix people.

 

[Chimney34]

I agree with much of your post. I only vape in places where I'm allowed to smoke. If I'm not sure i ask. I'm able to vape at work which is cool. Here you can't smoke in restaurants, bars etc... I don't expect to be able to vape wherever I want to. Plus since my ecig isn't cig like I still get weird looks but it doesn't bother me anymore. Vaping still is pretty new & rather unheard of for the most part where I live. I don't want to add to the dislike or prejudice of vaping before it even has a fighting chance so I just go by the rules no matter where I am. I figure if I could wait to go outside to have a cig before I started vaping then I can still wait now. It would be nice to be able to vape wherever I'm at but that's not the case now. Hopefully some day it will be!

 

[wv2win]

I agree with much of your post. I only vape in places where I'm allowed to smoke. If I'm not sure i ask. I'm able to vape at work which is cool. Here you can't smoke in restaurants, bars etc... I don't expect to be able to vape wherever I want to. Plus since my ecig isn't cig like I still get weird looks but it doesn't bother me anymore. Vaping still is pretty new & rather unheard of for the most part where I live. I don't want to add to the dislike or prejudice of vaping before it even has a fighting chance so I just go by the rules no matter where I am. I figure if I could wait to go outside to have a cig before I started vaping then I can still wait now. It would be nice to be able to vape wherever I'm at but that's not the case now. Hopefully some day it will be!

First, let me reiterate, that many of us believe in vaping openly in most (not all) places BUT respectfully.

But since the "rules" were made for smokers and the possible (never proven) harm from second hand smoke, they do not and more importantly, should not apply to vaping. And for us to positively educate the uninformed about the safety of vaping for those near by, we need to be sure we don't give them the perception that vaping is just the same as smoking and just as dangerous. If we only vape with smokers, that is the perception we are providing the uninformed. Plus we shouldn't have to be around cigarette smoke in order to vape.

Unfortunately perception is reality. If we provide the perception through our actions that vaping is the same as smoking, then that is the reality we are fostering.

 

[DancingHeretik]

"You'll have to go outside and vape with the smokers."

(Look of shock) "After I quit smoking and started vaping to save my life, you want to send me into the pit of cigarette smoke and kill me?!!!!"

 

[JR 137]

Love and let live is dead. Too many things are disallowed.

To all the anti-political correctness people...
Political correctness actually has had some very good outcomes; as a society:
We don't tolerate calling groups slurs
We don't throw people with mental impairments into asylums and throw away the key
We don't tolerate sexual harassment
Etc.

But political correctness can go way too far way too often.

As I first stated, live and let live is dead. If people feel the need to be the Rosa Parks of vaping, feel free.

I choose to vape when I want and where I want (within the confines of my addiction, anyway). I choose not to vape in places where I think it's inappropriate to smoke. Inappropriate and illegal to smoke aren't one in the same, but there's instances where they overlap. And I don't vape everywhere where people smoke either. I didn't smoke at designated areas near little league ball parks or playgrounds. I don't vape there either.

I'm neither a sheep nor brainwashed. I make my decision based on my values that I've contemplated/questioned. You don't like it, tough doo-doo. If you want to vape everywhere and anywhere and be a martyr, that's your business. Everyone has their idea of what's appropriate and what isn't; deal with it. Follow your own implied advice - live and let live.

 

[hydrogenous]

J
I'm also convinced with today's technology we don't need 20-30 year stupid studies to know if Vapeing well kill.

It amazes me the amount of people who come in here worried about liquids and rigs being harmful etal. Yet if I believe their stories that they smoked a PAD for x amount of years they were nor as worried about smoking??. Yes I know smoking is addictive and some consider it a disease even, so it's not our fault we smoked. So why should I worry about Vapeing, I don't. Did I worry about smoking, Nope but I knew I would quit one day as death comes to us all. Luckily Vape came my way first.

I'd rather Vape then try hauling on my tailpipe. I'm pretty sure I know which would kill me first.

I think you're on to something, but let's not convince ourselves of anything until all the evidence is in. The fact of the matter is that vaping is still new, and there aren't any standards set in place for additives and flavors. It might turn out that xxx-brand's cinnamon flavor has some kind of weird reaction that can cause a health ailment in the long run, but yyy-brand's cinnamon flavor is perfectly fine.

I think this is where I wouldn't mind the FDA to step in. In the same way that food has to be labeled with ingredients and nutritional value, I would like to see e-liquid manufacturers be more open as far as what exactly goes into their juice.

IIRC there was a coalition of liquid-makers who were trying to come up with their own standards and measures. I think it would be nice if the free market could band together to regulate itself (is my libertarian showing?), but I don't have much faith in anything these days.

What I do know is that not vaping is healthier than vaping, and vaping is healthier than smoking. I could not have quit smoking unless I started vaping. In my opinion, I won.

 

[dwc2134]

I look at it this way: Most floral scented perfumes and colognes, as well as many non-floral ones, give me massive headaches and/or trigger my allergies. Anything with lavender triggers an almost epipen worthy allergy attack. However, I am not going to ask the person next to me "Excuse me, could you step over somewhere else? Your body scent spray is really bothering me". They have as much right to be there as I do. I see no difference between that and the semi-scented, minute trace of nicotine containing vapor I exhale.

I usually do not ask about vaping, but I will be discreet about it, more so because I have little issue with being confrontational when confronted and choose to avoid those situations as much as possible. Most folk who know me are well aware of my quickness to deal confrontation with a quick "Go get ......ed" and deaf ear to their future statements. You get the respect you give me. If management asks me nicely not to vape in their store, I won't. If some random citizen takes issue with it, or treats me with anything less than the respect I treat everyone with initially, they can kiss me where the sun don't shine, and I'll tell them as much.

 

[Shotintel]

In the military, navy expecially, you have very specific areas you are allowed so smoke, and even rules around chew. Vaping is another story... (puffs on ego), at least so far .

 

[wv2win]

I'm finding it somewhat suspicious at best, that the OP has only a few posts, yet starts his first thread with a soliloquy on why vaping should be considered the same as smoking. He implies that the noted experts in the fields of Harm Reduction and Public Health, who have studied the research and find that vaping is safe for those nearby, are not part of the scientific community.

Yet he has not responded to any posts in this thread. I wonder why that is.