Why do vapers expect to be treated differently than smokers?

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mkbilbo

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Of the millions of people who vape, have you read or heard of anyone being harmed by vaping or being harmed by second hand vapor? Considering how many groups, with millions of dollars to spend, would like to see vaping banned, don't you think we would have known about it if someone had been harmed? If there was anything in exhaled vapor that would harm others, isn't it reasonable to expect that these same groups would have told us about it based on the studies they have done? Common sense tells me that generally, eliquid is safe since the major ingredients are all the same, at least from the major suppliers such as DeKang, Hangsen, Janty, etc. And since all of these ingredients are easy to come-by and inexpensive, there is no incentive to use some dangerous substitutes.

If the foaming at the mouth "ban everything" bunch could find even one case where something serious happened because of vaping, they'd be parading the person (or corpse?) around all over the place, shrieking about THE CHILLLLDRUUUNNNNN!!!!! at the top of their lungs.

Usually, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but in this case... could be...
 

Nkayy

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I guess I'm young, so smoking has been banned in a lot of places most of my life. I don't find it unreasonable. There is an air shaft outside the back entrance to my work building - where all the air gets taken in for the AC. It says not to smoke within 25 feet. I find that reasonable, but sometimes people do smoke there and then the air inside the building smells like smoke (Not even a nice tobacco scent, just smells like something burning) Whenever I ask people to move if they are smoking, they get all offended, EVEN THOUGH I WAS A SMOKER AT THE TIME. I think smokers need to get over their victim mentality. You have the right to smoke, but you DONT have the right to disturb/annoy/damage the health/property of someone else.

Yes, vaping is different, but I agree with OP that we don't need to VAPE ANYWHERE. I interpret vaping in restaurants/movie theatres as rude. If I go to a party at someone's house, I check to make sure it's okay.
 

Coastal Cowboy

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Of the millions of people who vape, have you read or heard of anyone being harmed by vaping or being harmed by second hand vapor? Considering how many groups, with millions of dollars to spend, would like to see vaping banned, don't you think we would have known about it if someone had been harmed? If there was anything in exhaled vapor that would harm others, isn't it reasonable to expect that these same groups would have told us about it based on the studies they have done? Common sense tells me that generally, eliquid is safe since the major ingredients are all the same, at least from the major suppliers such as DeKang, Hangsen, Janty, etc. And since all of these ingredients are easy to come-by and inexpensive, there is no incentive to use some dangerous substitutes.

I read a story posted here where some jackleg in Northwest Florida had a battery explode while he was vaping, knocking out several teeth and shattering his jaw. The news stories are no longer on line, but it appears that the gentleman in question was using some heavily modified equipment.

There are also some pictures floating around of a battery that shorted and caught fire, destroying it and the carrying case the lady had it in.

The point being that while the vapor itself is quite safe, sometimes the equipment we use to create it poses some risks. These are two isolated incidents, but the law of averages says that as more people switch to vaping, more incidents like these are likely to occur. Sticking to quality equipment sold by reputable vendors should reduce these risks, but not eliminate them.

As for the so-called "dangerous ingredients" in our juices, well... you'll inhale many times more of them just walking by the perfume counter at Macy's or the scented candle sections at Target or Bed Bath and Beyond. And may God have mercy on your soul if you happen to work in one of those trendy, hipsterish boutiques that sells "organic" soaps, candles, essential oils and other such happy horsecrap.
 

metrabolic

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Nice post! I don't think that we as vapers should just expect to vape anywhere. I only vape in places I can't smoke in places like bars, a few restaurants, and when I'm stuck in a place for a long time. I see lots of people saying some one at Wal-Mart freaked out because I was vaping in line and they are ...... off about it. This I don't understand, because why would you need to vape in Wal-Mart. Anyways I liked the post! Great insight.
 

tj99959

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    If the foaming at the mouth "ban everything" bunch could find even one case where something serious happened because of vaping, they'd be parading the person (or corpse?) around all over the place, shrieking about THE CHILLLLDRUUUNNNNN!!!!! at the top of their lungs.

    Usually, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence but in this case... could be...

    It isn't about the fanatics, you could live in a vacuum and they would still find a reason to complain.

    Figure something like 25% of people smoke or vape, that means that 75% of people don't want anything to do with smoking or vaping. They simply don't care if vaping is harmful or not ... they don't want to be around it. No different than I don't want to be around people passing gas. It's the "nuisance value" that we tend to forget. A barking dog doesn't hurt anyone, but it sure can piss people off.

    So while we do have the fanatics to deal with, we also have the general population to consider.
     
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    ricks

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    I think we should be able to Vape anywhere. If something is harmless to others than it should be allowed anywhere.
    Nice post! I don't think that we as vapers should just expect to vape anywhere. I only vape in places I can't smoke in places like bars, a few restaurants, and when I'm stuck in a place for a long time. I see lots of people saying some one at Wal-Mart freaked out because I was vaping in line and they are ...... off about it. This I don't understand, because why would you need to vape in Wal-Mart. Anyways I liked the post! Great insight.
     

    wv2win

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    I read a story posted here where some jackleg in Northwest Florida had a battery explode while he was vaping, knocking out several teeth and shattering his jaw. The news stories are no longer on line, but it appears that the gentleman in question was using some heavily modified equipment.

    There are also some pictures floating around of a battery that shorted and caught fire, destroying it and the carrying case the lady had it in.

    The point being that while the vapor itself is quite safe, sometimes the equipment we use to create it poses some risks. These are two isolated incidents, but the law of averages says that as more people switch to vaping, more incidents like these are likely to occur. Sticking to quality equipment sold by reputable vendors should reduce these risks, but not eliminate them.

    As for the so-called "dangerous ingredients" in our juices, well... you'll inhale many times more of them just walking by the perfume counter at Macy's or the scented candle sections at Target or Bed Bath and Beyond. And may God have mercy on your soul if you happen to work in one of those trendy, hipsterish boutiques that sells "organic" soaps, candles, essential oils and other such happy horsecrap.

    I agree with you. I'm familiar with the story your referenced. Of the millions of people who vape, it is the only reported incident of someone harmed by vaping equipment and that was due to the users own ignorance. If people were harmed even .0001% of the time by vaping, the ANTZ's would be blowing it all out of proportion and it would be all over the news. The fact that it isn't, speaks volumes.
     

    ricks

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    If i saw someone mad about my Vaping, I would try and convince them that what I am doing is perfectly harmless. I have had many people ask me what I was doing and it always ended up with I need to try that or I need that for a friend or family member. Never have I had a bad situation about my Vaping.
    Even when it pisses others off?

    Doesn't matter if it hurts them or not, the fact that it made someone mad should be reason enough to put it away.
     

    Azmo

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    I don't vape in restaurants or movies on my own accord. I vape outside at friend's houses unless they tell me otherwise. But my feeling is, when they start banning hot coffee (because coffee gives off water vapor), then they can ban vaping. And coffee smells vile to me.

    It's funny how some vapers are so ready to allow other people's annoyance with vaping dictate where and when they vape. These other people don't consider anyone's annoyance with their choice of perfume or cologne. Or their cars spewing a giant ball of blue smoke.

    Stop being a conformist to the whims of the ignorant.
     

    peakcomm

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    I smoked for decades. I smoked in the days when it was acceptable everywhere -- stores, restaurants, planes, offices. I chain-smoked in my own office and carried my ashtray to the conference room for meetings. I was the head of my department and my mostly non-smoking subordinates put up with my constant blue fog ... and stayed quiet about it. Because every officer of the company also smoked.

    As times changed, I very reluctantly changed with them. When the big boss finally said, "We smoke only in the smoking area from now on," I did as I was told, though I was less productive because I took so many breaks. When the law said, "No more smoking in these public indoor places," I grumbled, but I complied. When the law went further and said, "No more smoking in these public outdoor places," I ranted at the hypocrisy and injustice, but I complied. I sought out places where I was still allowed to smoke. And I became increasingly aggressive if someone asked me not to smoke in those places, even when the request was polite and respectful. If the request was less than polite, so was I.

    Six months ago, I became a vaper. I do not smoke. I no longer behave as if I were a smoker.

    So far as I (or anyone else to date) can determine, my exhaled vape is not dangerous to others and is no more likely to irritate even an asthmatic than heavy perfume or aftershave. Its sometimes lingering odor is certainly less offensive than body odors or cooking smells we encounter daily. For me, vaping serves the same function as chewing nicotine gum or using a prescribed nicotine inhaler, but is significantly more effective.

    So I vape anywhere I would chew gum, wear scents, or sweat. I vape in stores, restaurants, bars and auditoriums, but not in spaces where other people are very close, because exhaling obviously into a stranger's breathing space is rude, even without the plume of vapor. I have NEVER been approached and asked to stop. I have often been asked, "Is that one of those electronic cigarettes? Do they really work?" and I am always happy to take that cue to educate and evangelize on behalf of vaping.

    How would I react if I were asked to stop? I'm not sure. I'm inclined to think I would start a conversation, the tone of which would depend on the asker's attitude and reason. We'll see when it happens, I guess.

    In the meantime, I will vape on.
     
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    III BIRDMAN III

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    1) I do not vape around my kids...... to many unknowns!!!
    2) I try to keep my vaping outdoors when i'm at home.
    3) I don't mind standing in the smoking crowd blowing plumes of my absinthe blend in there faces :p
    4) I feel we all should keep an open mind about being respectful about our new "HABBIT"

    Vape On ECF :D
     
    A couple of other points here.

    The attempt, according to CASSA, to have in one place at least, e-cigs classified as "drug paraphenalia". That means, if it takes hold that getting caught with an e-cig would mean jail time. Have people gone insane?

    And at least for several decades after something new is being studied by the "scientific" community, opinions are all over the place, and as someone else pointed out, the opinions that are helpful to the big business community are the ones that get published. If you all haven't read John Ioannidis, you should. Here is a link, if it will post, to get you started. If the link doesn't post, it is to an Atlantic article called Lies, Damned Lies and Medical Science. Lies, Damned Lies, and Medical Science - David H. Freedman - The Atlantic
     

    Katcandoo

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    Even when it pisses others off?

    Doesn't matter if it hurts them or not, the fact that it made someone mad should be reason enough to put it away.

    Oh for Pete's sake. This country was founded by people who ...... other people off even though they weren't hurting anyone. AND they created a country that was a republic and NOT a democracy. There was a reason for that, folks. I live in a country that I don't recognize anymore. I am told to celebrate diversity, to accept and not to judge even if I find the expression or behavior or appearance disgusting and offensive as long as it doesn't physically harm me. But OMG don't I dare vape were it might offend someone just because they don't like the way it looks or what it may might appear to be or has a slight odor. smh :(
     

    Mad Scientist

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    Even when it pisses others off?

    Doesn't matter if it hurts them or not, the fact that it made someone mad should be reason enough to put it away.

    You are pissing me off, please stop that posting as I find it is irritating and the particular patterns of electrons that form what you wrote on my screen have not been proven safe. Now what?
     

    DC2

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    While I do agree with most of your post, you still must remember why e-cigs were invented in the first place.. It was a way for smokers to legally take back the restrictions that were placed upon them when all of the bans took place years back.
    Just to clarify, no, that is not why electronic cigarettes were invented.
    They were invented by Hon Lik to keep smokers from dying like his father did.

    Since some of the research HAS determined that at least some forms of vaping do cause cell harm and cell death, I believe any debate here is pointless. Unless we are regulated to a single 'known safe' formula (read as basic flavorless medical dosage) then there is no argument anyone can make to justify putting non-vapers into harm's way by second hand vape.
    And that is attributed in said research (Dr. Farsalinos) to be most likely due to certain flavorings.
    So nobody should ever enter a restaurant where the "vapor" from flavorings runs rampant all day long.
     

    wv2win

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    I don't vape in restaurants or movies on my own accord. I vape outside at friend's houses unless they tell me otherwise. But my feeling is, when they start banning hot coffee (because coffee gives off water vapor), then they can ban vaping. And coffee smells vile to me.

    It's funny how some vapers are so ready to allow other people's annoyance with vaping dictate where and when they vape. These other people don't consider anyone's annoyance with their choice of perfume or cologne. Or their cars spewing a giant ball of blue smoke.

    Stop being a conformist to the whims of the ignorant.

    Very well stated. ECF seems to have had an influx of "sheep" in the last year.
     
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