Why don't people want e-liquid labels changed?

[scrabble]

you have a letter from your doctor?
if not don't get on my case for being skeptical.
there is no fat in PG nor is it a cause of pneumonia.
the rest of the story is bull.
mike
​

You flat out insinuated that I was a total idiot and "did something wrong" to cause my own choking. You're right, I did cause it -- I inhaled from an electronic cigarette, normally, as if it were a cigarette. Sigh.

VG / PG are hygroscopic. The woman who had lipid-pneumonia, I do believe, was diagnosed correctly.

Hygroscopy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, I think it's only VG (glycerol). Still learning.

 

[Chibisaurus]

It's the word "toxic" that I take issue with - if you're allergic to it, or sensitive to it, ok, don't use it. But don't label it "toxic" because that has a whole different meaning.

Agree 100%

Well cats and trees aren't toxins but inhalants are.

Here are the synonyms of nontoxic: nonpoisonous, innocuous, harmless, benign, safe, nonirritating, hypoallergenic

For myself, I can't say that vaping was entirely nontoxic to me. It WAS toxic. But the good thing is that I have options. It might be that the particular liquid was rancid all on its own. Or it could be that it had more of one thing than another (VG or PG). The bottle wasn't labeled so I don't know. I actually plan to start making my own and I'm going to figure out which is the toxin to me. It's a harsh word but it fits.

If you are allergic to something it is your responsibility to ask if that product is used.
Why do you think when you go to a hospital, they ask you what you are allergic to? Because they don't know. YOU KNOW. I'm allergic to Coconut, Yes when I buy liquids I ask if anything coconut is in it, if you purchase online, the ingredients are normally there, If not. Ill use that nifty "contact me" button and I'll ask them "Hey does xxxx product contain any coconut, I want to buy some and try it out, but if it has coconut I can't. Maybe you should add ingredients to your website" and I have only had to do that once. As an adult you should be aware of things yourself, it shouldn't be up to someone else. The internet is a great tool, use it, do research.

 

[Chibisaurus]

The "heavy lung" feeling that some people experience has me wondering if it's related to diacetyl or other chemicals. How does anybody scientifically know, as of right now, if heavy lung does or does not have anything to do with toxicity?

This is how I found out about diacetyl. It's almost prophetic, look at the name: Suicide Bunny.

http://soundcloud.com/vp-live/suicide-bunny-e-liquids-test-positive?in=vp-live/sets/the-click-bang-archives

I have never had a "heavy lung" feeling from vaping... Yes I just started a few weeks ago, but actually my lungs are starting to feel better then they ever have. As for the name "Suicide bunny" It's just a name. That would be like saying don't buy from cuttwood, because there could be wood chips in your eliquid. The person who made "Suicide Bunny" just might have liked the name, Wanted to name something after "Suicide Girls" . A name is a name.. and just because 1 thing is bad, doesn't mean all things of the same nature are bad too.

 

[skoony]

Why does it bother you that VG / PG is toxic to some people? Are you afraid that the government is going to take e-cigs away?

Let me say it this way: VG / PG is not entirely nontoxic. It might not cause death and it might not cause permanent damage but in my case it was not nontoxic.

You flat out insinuated that I was a total idiot and "did something wrong" to cause my own choking. You're right, I did cause it -- I inhaled from an electronic cigarette, normally, as if it were a cigarette. Sigh.

VG / PG are hygroscopic. The woman who had lipid-pneumonia, I do believe, was diagnosed correctly.

Hygroscopy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Actually, I think it's only VG (glycerol). Still learning.

I just pointed out that what
you described is highly unlikely.
VG does not cause pneumonia either.


mike

 

[scrabble]

Agree 100%



If you are allergic to something it is your responsibility to ask if that product is used.
Why do you think when you go to a hospital, they ask you what you are allergic to? Because they don't know. YOU KNOW. I'm allergic to Coconut, Yes when I buy liquids I ask if anything coconut is in it, if you purchase online, the ingredients are normally there, If not. Ill use that nifty "contact me" button and I'll ask them "Hey does xxxx product contain any coconut, I want to buy some and try it out, but if it has coconut I can't. Maybe you should add ingredients to your website" and I have only had to do that once. As an adult you should be aware of things yourself, it shouldn't be up to someone else. The internet is a great tool, use it, do research.

I obviously do use the internet and do my research. Maybe you should have noticed that already?

I know exactly what's at stake but I'm not a liar and I'm not in denial. I have found that for me, either the VG or the PG is toxic. It COULD be that the liquid I had was rancid. I might not ever know. Oh, and when I got sick from a specific flavor that was toxic, too. I wasn't having allergic reactions. I was poisoning myself. Poisons are toxins and toxins are poisons. They're harsh, harsh words but they fit.

Coconut, cats and trees are all natural. Flavorings, chemicals and inhalants just do not compare.

 

[scrabble]

I have never had a "heavy lung" feeling from vaping... Yes I just started a few weeks ago, but actually my lungs are starting to feel better then they ever have. As for the name "Suicide bunny" It's just a name. That would be like saying don't buy from cuttwood, because there could be wood chips in your eliquid. The person who made "Suicide Bunny" just might have liked the name, Wanted to name something after "Suicide Girls" . A name is a name.. and just because 1 thing is bad, doesn't mean all things of the same nature are bad too.

I know you didn't say heavy lung. Those are my words, not yours. I said that I'm wondering if heavy lung is related to diacetyl or other chemicals.

So you know what heavy lung is, I suggest reading these threads. I've been reading them for hours. It's how I learned that VG is hygroscopic.

Search Results for Query: heavy lung | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[scrabble]

I just pointed out that what
you described is highly unlikely.
VG does not cause pneumonia either.


mike

It obviously did for one 42 year old woman. And what I experienced isn't highly unlikely. It is what I said it is.

 

[AndriaD]

As @mshinall stated above....what happened to personal responsibility? You've taken that step. Let others take it as well. You don't need the govt/fda/babysitter to do it for you or anyone else for that matter.

Precisely! It's not up to anyone but ME what's in my ejuice, I make it myself just because I have such specific and exacting requirements -- 84% PG, 10mg nicotine, no diketones, and still for the next several months, containing WTA.

If you want your ejuice to suit you perfectly, make it yourself. You know the old saying, "if you want something done RIGHT... DO IT YO DAMN SEF!" If it gives you a problem, then change it yourself. Don't wish for or agitate for gov't intervention, those idjits can and will screw up anything and everything they touch -- they make VERY few things better, but they certainly can and do make things WORSE.

Andria

 

[scrabble]

Precisely! It's not up to anyone but ME what's in my ejuice, I make it myself just because I have such specific and exacting requirements -- 84% PG, 10mg nicotine, no diketones, and still for the next several months, containing WTA.

If you want your ejuice to suit you perfectly, make it yourself. You know the old saying, "if you want something done RIGHT... DO IT YO DAMN SEF!" If it gives you a problem, then change it yourself. Don't wish for or agitate for gov't intervention, those idjits can and will screw up anything and everything they touch -- they make VERY few things better, but they certainly can and do make things WORSE.

Andria

With all due respect, the fact of the matter is that government does have the right, the power and the ability to regulate. I hope they do, to a certain degree. When I buy USP nicotine I want to feel secure that it's coming from a manufacturer and retailer who both adhere to industry regulations. If a chemical additive in flavorings will make me sick, when what I want is to improve my health, I definitely want to know about that. I want that information to be available to me. That's what governance is all about. I appreciate a right government. It's a corrupt and faulty government I can't tolerate. Know what I mean?

 

[skoony]

It obviously did for one 42 year old woman. And what I experienced isn't highly unlikely. It is what I said it is.

neither PG or VG cause pneumonia.
mike

 

[Chibisaurus]

I know you didn't say heavy lung. Those are my words, not yours. I said that I'm wondering if heavy lung is related to diacetyl or other chemicals.

So you know what heavy lung is, I suggest reading these threads. I've been reading them for hours. It's how I learned that VG is hygroscopic.

Search Results for Query: heavy lung | E-Cigarette Forum

I have had pneumonia many times in my life (just about every winter for the past 4 years). That "heavy lung" feeling can also be caused by quitting smoking in the first place, Once you stop smoking, your lungs start healing.

"Tightness in the chest
Part of the recovery process may be the lung’s attempt to remove mucus and tar. The normal mucus transport system will start to reactivate itself, which can initially cause coughing. "

Coughing and lung gunk | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[DC2]

Scrabble, I don't mean to pick on you, honestly I don't.
I'm only replying to the things below because no one else did.

I know they were busy arguing other things, so I'll reply to these...

From what I've read diacetyl is only in custard and cream flavorings. I found out about it while reading on the internet, not by labeling of products.

You will be unhappy to learn, if you vape fruit flavors, that your information is incorrect.
Diacetyl was found in a lot of fruit flavors.

Google "diacetyl fruit flavors" for more infomation (research)

I don't fear a right government. It's a corrupt government that I fear

A corrupt government is the only kind of government that has ever existed on planet earth.
It's just human nature, and governments are run by humans.

That's something that really concerns and scares me -- the potential of medicalizing e-cigs. It's a drug delivery device and that can't be denied but it isn't medical equipment.

Only as much as a coffee cup is a medical delivery device.

I just read this a little while ago,

I see you're new here, so I understand.
You've read some of the lovely propaganda they've been trying to feed you.

You should be made aware that the two things you quoted are total crap.
I'd go into more detail, with LOTS of links and all, but I just don't feel up to it right now.

VG / PG are hygroscopic. The woman who had lipid-pneumonia, I do believe, was diagnosed correctly.

Oh damn it, now you're going to make me go dig up the information that shows how that was crap.

I'll be back later.
Maybe.

 

[scrabble]

neither PG or VG cause pneumonia.
mike

Sorry Mike but it clearly did, for one 42 year old woman. I posted the information to you once, no need to post it again.

 

[Chibisaurus]

With all due respect, the fact of the matter is that government does have the right, the power and the ability to regulate. I hope they do, to a certain degree. When I buy USP nicotine I want to feel secure that it's coming from a manufacturer and retailer who both adhere to industry regulations. If a chemical additive in flavorings will make me sick, when what I want is to improve my health, I definitely want to know about that. I want that information to be available to me. That's what governance is all about. I appreciate a right government. It's a corrupt and faulty government I can't tolerate. Know what I mean?

It is not the governments responsibility to come in and babysit every aspect of everything. The government doesn't care about you or your health. They care about your money. The money you spend buying each pack of smokes, and now they want to take money from people getting healthy.

 

[Jman8]

It isn't a bad thing to require manufacturers and distributors to label products. How do you feel about GMO's? Don't you think companies that sell GMO foods should be required to disclose? I do!!

I disagree that it isn't a bad thing to require manufacturers and distributors to label products. I do understand that it may be, in many cases, desired. But required begs the question of who determines what is required to be stated. You may say all of what you desire to see on a label, but what if 10 other vapers want 10 other bits of information? Would you say that the entire industry must then conform? Or better yet, let's say industry has settled on say the 5 things that all labels must present, and each company prints up 10,000+ labels to last for awhile. But the week after that is in done, some new FDA hot shot says there is a 6th thing that really needs to be on all labels and the previous one is 'useless' without it. So, tough tooties industry, but you gotta dump the 10,000 you just printed, do another printing and go with it.

And all of this minus the FACT that those who read the label are relying on faith (not science) in making their determinations based on what the label purports to be accurate.

You want safe vape product(s), that you can establish via FACT as safe for you? Do your own testing. Unless / until you do, it will be a matter of faith/trust as to what the label is telling you. It would be irresponsible of you to claim you do know when you haven't done your own testing. Actual science would demand nothing less. And as long as trust is in effect, then just go with those vendors who you do trust (as you already do). Once requirement enters the picture, then if being honest the consumer bears responsibility to do own testing or is being disingenuous with what is owed to them.

 

[scrabble]

I have had pneumonia many times in my life (just about every winter for the past 4 years). That "heavy lung" feeling can also be caused by quitting smoking in the first place, Once you stop smoking, your lungs start healing.

"Tightness in the chest
Part of the recovery process may be the lung’s attempt to remove mucus and tar. The normal mucus transport system will start to reactivate itself, which can initially cause coughing. "

Coughing and lung gunk | E-Cigarette Forum

There are a lot of people complaining about heavy lung and shortness of breath. I don't think it's symptoms of quitting smoking for all of those people.

 

[DC2]

Sorry Mike but it clearly did, for one 42 year old woman. I posted the information to you once, no need to post it again.

No, and more no.

Read this while I get more links...
Why vaping does not cause lipoid pneumonia | E-Cigarette Forum

Okay, I'm not going to read all these links to see which are best...
Here are a bunch you can look through if you want to do more research...
Search Results for Query: lipoid pneumonia | E-Cigarette Forum

 

[scrabble]

Scrabble, I don't mean to pick on you, honestly I don't.
I'm only replying to the things below because no one else did.

I know they were busy arguing other things, so I'll reply to these...

You will be unhappy to learn, if you vape fruit flavors, that your information is incorrect.
Diacetyl was found in a lot of fruit flavors.

Google "diacetyl fruit flavors" for more infomation (research)

A corrupt government is the only kind of government that has ever existed on planet earth.
It's just human nature, and governments are run by humans.

Only as much as a coffee cup is a medical delivery device.

I see you're new here, so I understand.
You've read some of the lovely propaganda they've been trying to feed you.

You should be made aware that the two things you quoted are total crap.
I'd go into more detail, with LOTS of links and all, but I just don't feel up to it right now.

Oh damn it, now you're going to make me go dig up the information that shows how that was crap.

I'll be back later.
Maybe.

I'm concerned because of adverse effects from vaping, not because of "propaganda".

Government may have corruption but it still stands and functions. It isn't entirely corrupt.

Since banana is currently my favorite flavor, yes I'm unhappy that diacetyl may be in my juice!

 

[AndriaD]

With all due respect, the fact of the matter is that government does have the right, the power and the ability to regulate. I hope they do, to a certain degree. When I buy USP nicotine I want to feel secure that it's coming from a manufacturer and retailer who both adhere to industry regulations. If a chemical additive in flavorings will make me sick, when what I want is to improve my health, I definitely want to know about that. I want that information to be available to me. That's what governance is all about. I appreciate a right government. It's a corrupt and faulty government I can't tolerate. Know what I mean?

Sure, in a perfect world, where the gov't wasn't for sale to the highest bidder, I agree, that would be great. However the word "corrupt" doesn't go nearly far enough, in describing the gov't we actually have -- evil, greedy, gluttonous, control-freak, Machiavellian, depraved, and malicious should also be in any description of our gov't. Because of that, if you really want to be safe, you must be responsibly proactive, and see to the safety of the ingredients yourself -- it's really not difficult; TPA/TFA shows every ingredient in their flavors, right on their site, and bullcityvapor.com also makes a point of identifying all flavors that contain any type of diketone, in any amount. It's not perfect, but so far it has sufficed to provide me with safe ingredients for my ejuice -- I make sure of that just as I make sure of the nic level and PG/VG proportions in the finished ejuice.

It's exactly the same as cooking your own food at home rather than pay extortionate prices for the 3rd-class quality of foods prepared in restaurants. One often has no idea at all what they put in or on it; cook it yourself at home, and you can be sure of the quality of every ingredient used. Sure, it's always possible that some ingredient will be not up to par, but it's far less likely to happen when you do it yourself.

If you simply don't want to go to the trouble of doing it yourself, then you must accept whatever is available; vote with your dollars, for those products you find acceptable; if a vendor consistently provides unacceptable products, eventually business will be business and they'll go out of it. The answer is NOT allowing a corrupt, evil, greedy, gluttonous, control-freak, Machiavellian, depraved, and malicious gov't to do it for you, because I guarantee you, they will not stop there; they will attempt to micro-manage every last aspect, resulting in far higher prices for far lower-quality items.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I'm concerned because of adverse effects from vaping, not because of "propaganda".

Government may have corruption but it still stands and functions. It isn't entirely corrupt.

Since banana is currently my favorite flavor, yes I'm unhappy that diacetyl may be in my juice!

Then choose a different brand until you find a brand that doesn't contain it -- see the TPA/TFA website, and bullcityvapor, mentioned in my last post.

Andria