Why don't people want e-liquid labels changed?

[scrabble]

Reading threads made by other users who are claiming they feel they have heavy lung (while quitting smoking and switching to vaping) is not FACT that vaping caused this, when it has already been a proven fact that when you quit smoking, you get heavy lung.

And again, You claim that your problems "hacking up phlegm" (Which also causes heavy lung) is caused by vaping, Which it isn't. Have you ever heard "Don't believe everything you read on the internet" Sure if I google search "Heavy lung caused from vaping" I'm going to get a bunch of BS claims about it.

Again, I've been a cigarette smoker for nearly 30 years. The mucus I choked on was caused by vaping. It had nothing whatsoever to do with cigarette smoking. I really think you should read those threads about heavy lung.

 

[Jode]

Yes, it was from vaping. Mucus is a known adverse response to VG and PG. If it causes an allergic reaction that means it's toxic (for that person).

I have a simple solution for you. Stop vaping and leave it to those that appreciate all that it can do. If all the ingredients in ejuice scare you so much then switch to many of the FDA approved ENDS that just contain nicotine instead of blaming what could have been caused by many other things on vaping. And just so you know and are aware....Diacetyl can be naturally found in a number of natural and artificial flavorings including ones you wouldn't necessarily think of like strawberry.

 

[DC2]

Wow, way to take everything out of context and twist it. The lipid-pneumonia I just read about this morning in another thread on this very site. It makes perfect sense to me and I entirely accept that the woman was correctly diagnosed.

As for restricting lung function, somebody posted a heavy lung search result so I clicked on it and started reading. After I read about it, I wondered if diacetyl or other chemicals were the cause of heavy lung. We were discussing diacetyl, and so I made the obvious connection. It's a good question and people should be asking. Try to pay attention and stay focused, and don't twist up what I say.

And yes, somebody else mentioned that electronic cigarettes are drug delivery devices. I agree, because they definitely are. I responded to that and said that I was concerned that if things go down that track, there could be medicalization of e-cigs. You make it seem like I'm frantically concerned or even panicked. Don't take my words out of context, thank you.

No, I'm just making a point that you reference material that is known to be propaganda.
That's all I'm saying, and the rest I don't care about.


I don't like to see vapers regurgitating the propaganda.
It's bad for all of us, and it misleads the vaper who is doing it.

And electronic cigarettes in the United States can not, by law, ever be considered medical devices.
Unless of course the seller advertises them as a smoking cessation tool.

That was taken care of by Judge Leon in the Sottera vs FDA case.

 

[NealBJr]

Are you hell-bent to continue to insult me? Does the truth offend you that badly? Look, it was from vaping. At first I thought it was from the PG but the more I read the more I find that it actually might've been caused by the VG.

I just read this a little while ago,

But now doctors have raised concerns about e-cigarette vapor separate from those about nicotine. A 42-year-old woman who had used e-cigarettes for seven months experienced shortness of breath, cough, and fever over the same period. The diagnosis was lipoid pneumonia—a chronic inflammation caused by fatty substances (lipids) in the lungs—due to e-cigarette use. The specific cause was repeated exposure to glycerin-based oils found in e-cigarette nicotine vapor. The patient’s symptoms improved after she stopped using e-cigarettes.1

A recent study also found that using an e-cigarette for five minutes began to restrict lung function. It was not clear which e-cigarette ingredient or combination of substances caused these reactions. However, other studies have shown that propylene glycol, the source of the e-cigarettes’ visible vapor, can bring on respiratory irritation and increase the chance of developing asthma.2

My only point is this: vaping has risks. I'm not afraid to admit it. Those particular risks are not going to keep me from vaping, but one thing that's really important to me is facts. I need information to be available to me. It was by reading information that I was able to confirm what that choking was about and I'm glad the information was available. Now I have the opportunity to contribute in building that body of information, because I experienced an adverse effect! I'm not going to keep it to myself and pretend like nothing bad happened just because some people want to maintain an idea of total safety so that the government won't interfere. It's just not all that safe. It isn't.

I think the confusion between you two is the degree. I know you want your vape to be safe, we all do. But at this moment, vaping is an industry that is highly scrutinized. Any minor problem will be hyped up by the anti tobacco industry as ammunition to use towards getting the whole industry banned and taxed. The FDA controls the tobacco products, and they want Ecigs to be included and lumped together with the tobacco, having the same taxes and regulations.

If I had to guess, I would say that vaping is about as safe as driving. I believe smoking cigarettes are 1000 times more deadly than driving. out of my entire family, I know only one person who has died from a driving accident, I have known three people in my family who have died due to smoking, And one more was just diagnosed with lung cancer yesterday. Even though vaping is fairly new, I have not known of one person who has died to vaping. There has been a death due to lack of parenting skills (toddler getting into ejuice). When people report about e cigarettes, they are treating e cigarettes as an equal danger as regular cigarettes. This is what's fueling the anti-vaping campaign, and it's not based on truth, it's based on people's perception that e cigarettes are equal to regular cigarettes.

It's something that the vaping industry needs to defend every inch of ground until proper research is done. People see vape, they think smoke, and in the past 20 years, smoking has had some pretty graphic advertising.

You and I know that vaping is much safer than cigarettes, but the general public doesn't know. You and I know how safe it is. But due to recent propaganda, vaping has antifreeze, formaldehyde, Diacytl, and is being marketed to children in candy wrappers. Most of this is half truths or exaggerated... Antifreeze (propylene Glycol) is safe, Formaldehyde is only under extreme methods, Diacytl is only on certain flavors, and the wrappers are meant to attract adults.

Casaa has summed up some myths HERE. You won't find this news on a newspaper because it's not shock and awe stories and it discredits themselves. The Diactyl scare was found by Farsalinos, and even his reports show that there's less Diactyl than regular cigarettes.

Yes, vaping has risks. You agree, I agree, and most everyone here agrees. But their solution is to exaggerate the risks. It's something that most vapers defend. If we give in and submit to regulations, then their solution to regulation is higher tax and bans. We should fight until it's thoroughly researched. It's much like a life raft saving people from a sinking ship. while the ship is sinking, do you debate over how seaworthy the raft is when by looking at it, it's floating better than the ship they are trying to get off of. Get on the life raft first... then if that has a hole, look for an alternative method.

 

[scrabble]

How can you say that you know it was caused by vaping, You are not a doctor, you don't have a degree in medicine and/or health. Did you have this phlegm tested? Or are you just guessing.

Why vaping does not cause lipoid pneumonia | E-Cigarette Forum

"
Lipid Pneumonia

The possibility of developing lipid pneumonia has caused another recent scare in the vaping world. Lipoid pneumonia is a serious illness that occurs when you aspirate or inhale fatlike materials in products like lip balm or oil-based laxatives. Is it true that vaping could put people at risk for this and other respiratory illnesses? Polosa said, “There is no such threat!” In fact, he said that the much feared lipoid pneumonia is extremely rare and has only occurred in two cases of ecig users, but there is no way to determine if it was directly related to vaping.

“There is no way that regular exposure to glycerin in e-vapor will cause accumulation of fatlike material in the lung, because glycerin is not a lipid, but an alcohol. In the Spanish case, radiological evidence for lipoid pneumonia was preceding electronic cigarette use, hence it was not a consequence of vaping. In both cases I could identify a more plausible cause for these patients’ lipoid pneumonia,” Polosa said.

In reality, it seems that many former smokers experience improvements in their health after switching to ecigs. In fact, studies have even shown that when a smoker with asthma switches to ecigs, they have a reduction in the number of asthma-related symptoms."

Professor Riccardo Polosa Debunks Common Myths About Electronic Cigarettes - ChurnMag

Myth: Ecig glycerol causes lipoid pneumonia
This myth has surfaced a few times. However, the glycerol used in eliquids cannot cause lipoid pneumonia as it is not an oil. Glycerol is an alcohol (not the type that intoxicates), not a lipid. The UK government's Medicines and Healthcare Products Regulatory Agency (MHRA) stated in June 2013 it is not aware of any other cases of lipoid pneumonia associated with propylene glycol or glycerine products.

Ecigarette Myths - EcigAlternative.com

I definitely agree that there is fear. I think most of the fear is coming from people who are adamant to remain in denial that there are valid concerns about vaping.

The lipid-pneumonia was my jackpot find of the day. VERY valuable information.

 

[scrabble]

No, I'm just making a point that you reference material that is known to be propaganda.
That's all I'm saying, and the rest I don't care about.


I don't like to see vapers regurgitating the propaganda.
It's bad for all of us, and it misleads the vaper who is doing it.

And electronic cigarettes in the United States can not, by law, ever be considered medical devices.
Unless of course the seller advertises them as a smoking cessation tool.

That was taken care of by Judge Leon in the Sottera vs FDA case.

I agree that electronic cigarettes cannot be considered to be medical devices. That's exactly what I was saying, just in other words. I agree that they're a drug delivery device but if government tries to medicalize them, that will be a very serious problem. Medicalizing MJ is one thing but to medicalize electronic cigarettes would be going out of bounds.

I'm never going to see the lipid-pneumonia as propaganda but I understand that's how you see it.

 

[Chibisaurus]

--- It double posted.

 

[Chibisaurus]

Again, I've been a cigarette smoker for nearly 30 years. The mucus I choked on was caused by vaping. It had nothing whatsoever to do with cigarette smoking. I really think you should read those threads about heavy lung.

I have read many articles about heavy lung. And once again how do YOU know it was from vaping. Guessing isn't fact. Your opinion isn't fact. Did you see a doctor about it, did this doctor do tests and analyze it? Did that doctor come back with the conculusion that it was caused by vaping.

What I'm telling you, is this SAME thing (Clear phlegm) my father still HAS after QUITTING SMOKING cold turkey 5 years later. My father has never vaped a day in his life.

"In some cases, phlegm symptoms can be a sign of a serious or life-threatening disease or condition, such as chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) or lung cancer. Seek prompt medical care if you are coughing up or producing large amounts of phlegm, or if your phlegm is unusual, persistent, recurrent, or causes you concern."

"Smoking is the primary risk factor for COPD. Approximately 80 percent of COPD deaths are caused by smoking. Female smokers are nearly 13 times as likely to die from COPD as women who have never smoked. Male smokers are nearly 12 times as likely to die from COPD as men who have never smoked."


3 months vaping = No COPD | ALL ABOUT E-CIGARETTES UK

 

[DC2]

Since the topic came up...

For anyone interested in the propaganda machine...
Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger

How it started.
When it started.
Who runs it.
What their game plan is.
How they have been implementing it.

It's all there.

It started with cigarettes...
But the same players are turning it against vaping now...

 

[Jode]

It's the word "toxic" that I take issue with - if you're allergic to it, or sensitive to it, ok, don't use it. But don't label it "toxic" because that has a whole different meaning.

I don't think any of us here are going to makes sense to her (Im guessing its a her). She joined this week, has had all kinds of issues that she has attributed to vaping (armchair medical/science degree I guess) and now wants to rain on all the folks vaping helps. I am not even going to bother with somebody that doesn't take the time to read and research before tramping all over something they clearly do not understand.

 

[scrabble]

I think the confusion between you two is the degree. I know you want your vape to be safe, we all do. But at this moment, vaping is an industry that is highly scrutinized. Any minor problem will be hyped up by the anti tobacco industry as ammunition to use towards getting the whole industry banned and taxed. The FDA controls the tobacco products, and they want Ecigs to be included and lumped together with the tobacco, having the same taxes and regulations.

If I had to guess, I would say that vaping is about as safe as driving. I believe smoking cigarettes are 1000 times more deadly than driving. out of my entire family, I know only one person who has died from a driving accident, I have known three people in my family who have died due to smoking, And one more was just diagnosed with lung cancer yesterday. Even though vaping is fairly new, I have not known of one person who has died to vaping. There has been a death due to lack of parenting skills (toddler getting into ejuice). When people report about e cigarettes, they are treating e cigarettes as an equal danger as regular cigarettes. This is what's fueling the anti-vaping campaign, and it's not based on truth, it's based on people's perception that e cigarettes are equal to regular cigarettes.

It's something that the vaping industry needs to defend every inch of ground until proper research is done. People see vape, they think smoke, and in the past 20 years, smoking has had some pretty graphic advertising.

You and I know that vaping is much safer than cigarettes, but the general public doesn't know. You and I know how safe it is. But due to recent propaganda, vaping has antifreeze, formaldehyde, Diacytl, and is being marketed to children in candy wrappers. Most of this is half truths or exaggerated... Antifreeze (propylene Glycol) is safe, Formaldehyde is only under extreme methods, Diacytl is only on certain flavors, and the wrappers are meant to attract adults.

Casaa has summed up some myths HERE. You won't find this news on a newspaper because it's not shock and awe stories and it discredits themselves. The Diactyl scare was found by Farsalinos, and even his reports show that there's less Diactyl than regular cigarettes.

Yes, vaping has risks. You agree, I agree, and most everyone here agrees. But their solution is to exaggerate the risks. It's something that most vapers defend. If we give in and submit to regulations, then their solution to regulation is higher tax and bans. We should fight until it's thoroughly researched. It's much like a life raft saving people from a sinking ship. while the ship is sinking, do you debate over how seaworthy the raft is when by looking at it, it's floating better than the ship they are trying to get off of. Get on the life raft first... then if that has a hole, look for an alternative method.

Oh, I fight. My state isn't even one of the states that wants to tax e-cigs (as of yet) but I'm very much in the fight against the tax heist on electronic cigarettes.

If I didn't have adverse reactions while using e-cigs I'd probably be defending them as much as others. But, sadly, I have had two adverse reactions. I matter, and I'm not mistaken about what I experienced. I think health concerns are valid. I think safety concerns are valid. I just hope that people choose truth instead of denial and honesty instead of silence. I really don't think the vaping industry is at risk of a total ban (at least, not in the United States). Cigarettes aren't banned so why would e-cigs be? It makes no sense. I have no fear and no worry in that regard. But when people's health is at risk, we need accurate information.

I'm familiar with the formaldehyde study. I watch a lot of e-cig review videos and I noticed that some people seem to have issues. One reviewer was sick for almost a week and didn't upload any videos. She mentioned that her throat hurt. She sub-ohms. I think the formaldehyde study is useful.

 

[scrabble]

I don't think any of us here are going to makes sense to her (Im guessing its a her). She joined this week, has had all kinds of issues that she has attributed to vaping (armchair medical/science degree I guess) and now wants to rain on all the folks vaping helps. I am not even going to bother with somebody that doesn't take the time to read and research before tramping all over something they clearly do not understand.

I'm the one who made sense to a bunch of scared people who continually misread and fail to comprehend. TWO adverse reactions to vaping. That's "all kinds of issues"? TWO.

You have no idea the sort of research I'm capable of, or the work I produce in this world.

 

[Chibisaurus]

I'm the one who made sense to a bunch of scared people who continually misread and fail to comprehend. TWO adverse reactions to vaping. That's "all kinds of issues"? TWO.

You have no idea the sort of research I'm capable of, or the work I produce in this world.

Then please, Go forward, do this research, get it backed by DOCTORS and SCIENTIST and PROVE it.

 

[skoony]

I'm the one who made sense to a bunch of scared people who continually misread and fail to comprehend. TWO adverse reactions to vaping. That's "all kinds of issues"? TWO.

You have no idea the sort of research I'm capable of, or the work I produce in this world.

2 issues which you corrected.
therefore they are no longer valid
health concerns.
mike

 

[DC2]

I really don't think the vaping industry is at risk of a total ban (at least, not in the United States). Cigarettes aren't banned so why would e-cigs be? It makes no sense. I have no fear and no worry in that regard.

When people here talk about a ban they might mean many things.
But nobody I'm aware of believes that vaping will be made to disappear.

When people here talk about bans they basically mean anything that will make vaping less successful.
That could include a whole range of things that can happen.

--Excessive taxes making vaping too expensive
--Elimination of flavors
--Eliminating online sales
--Limitations on nicotine strength
--Restricting the market to only closed, non-refillable systems

 

[scrabble]

Quite a few of us experience lung problems from mild to severe, with too much VG, and that "too much" can vary a great deal too; however, we are less numerous than those who experience burning, coughing, and other "chemical burn" type effects from PG. What you experienced is in no way unique; it may have to do with too-high VG, but equally, is indeed one of the common side effects from quitting smoking -- there's a lot of trapped stuff in there, that begins to come out, once the smokes have been gone long enough -- and "long enough" also varies wildly, from person to person.

So you've learned that you can't handle too much VG -- now you have to determine EXACTLY how much is too much, for YOUR body. Calling a non-toxic substance a toxin just because your body can't handle it, is wildly inaccurate and a completely abuse of language. If your body can't handle it, then get rid of it; or if you can handle a small amount but no more, then do that -- but the English language is messed-with enough already, without changing the definition of words to suit yourself. To me, grain alcohol is a highly toxic solvent and insanity-inducer; but that's my body's response to it; it doesn't mean that the alcohol itself is "toxic" -- those capable of imbibing it in moderation do not experience a complete lapse of sanity from it.

Andria

Having smoked for nearly 30 years, I'm very well acquainted with what comes out of my lungs. What I choked on was entirely vaping related. It had nothing to do with cigarettes. I've never before in my life coughed up something so incredibly thick, sticky and bubbly (viscous). For myself, anything foreign (as VG and PG are) that causes an adverse reaction (like choking) is a toxin. The nausea, headache and upset I got from a specific flavoring was also toxic. It's a very scary word, I know. We all know cigarettes are toxic, and the chemicals in them. There's no fear in acknowledging that cigarettes and their chemicals are toxic, right? This is a similar thing except, it isn't deadly. But just because a toxin isn't deadly doesn't mean it isn't a toxin. Caffeine is a toxin and I drink it all day long.

 

[scrabble]

2 issues which you corrected.
therefore they are no longer valid
health concerns.
mike

Sure they are. I'm about to drop a hundred dollar bill on PG, VG, nicotine, flavorings and accessories. I don't expect to kill myself but I'm VERY aware that I just might get sick. I can only hope that I don't choke to death or pave the way in my lungs toward developing popcorn lung.

 

[AndriaD]

I don't think any of us here are going to makes sense to her (Im guessing its a her). She joined this week, has had all kinds of issues that she has attributed to vaping (armchair medical/science degree I guess) and now wants to rain on all the folks vaping helps. I am not even going to bother with somebody that doesn't take the time to read and research before tramping all over something they clearly do not understand.

I finally just had to resort to the ignore button. There are none so blind... etc etc etc ad infinitum....

Andria

 

[scrabble]

When people here talk about a ban they might mean many things.
But nobody I'm aware of believes that vaping will be made to disappear.

When people here talk about bans they basically mean anything that will make vaping less successful.
That could include a whole range of things that can happen.

--Excessive taxes making vaping too expensive
--Elimination of flavors
--Eliminating online sales
--Limitations on nicotine strength
--Restricting the market to only closed, non-refillable systems

Right, it's an expansive matter. I definitely don't see electronic cigarettes disappearing entirely (a total ban / illegal to manufacture, sell or possess).

 

[caramel]

I'm not asking anybody for advice, nor am I looking for any. I mentioned what I experienced because somebody said how safe e-cigs are. I disagree. I agree they're safer than tobacco but I don't agree, at all, that e-cigs are as safe as people think they are.

May I ask how did you find out what other people think about e-cigs safety, and what your findings were?