I think its important to educate both the young and the mature on the dangerous impacts of nicotine. When I was little, my parents took me through the house with Mr.Yuck stickers and educated me on everything that was bad for me by having me place the stickers on things that were harmful to ingest. A little effort towards teaching safety goes a long way. That being said, like others on this thread, every bottle of juice I have bought contains a warning that there is nicotine in the container and to keep away from children and pets. Regulation may be needed to enforce this warning, but not what color and images the label can have on it. Any regulation on appearance of the bottle aesthetically is unjustifiable in my mind. Once you cross that line, then why wouldn't you regulate everything aesthetically pleasing that is harmful in some way. From the top of my head, sugary carbonated beverages, candies, kid cuisines, kia car commercials. not the best examples but they justify my point.
Why don't people want e-liquid labels changed?
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That's the 6-11 age group. Unlikely to be accepted in a store that sells smokes / vapes.
Well, let's get some definitions out there, and if you disagree with my definitions, please provide your own.
Marketing - Branding intended to get a group of people to purchase your product over a different product.
Advertising - Usually print or tv ads, aimed at getting people to buy your product.
e-liquid - liquid meant for direct consumer use. Usually found in 36mg/ml nicotine strength or less.
liquid nicotine - Concentrated nicotine liquid, intended for diluting to proper use strength.
kids - ages 1-11(?)
teens - ages 12-20(?)
Let's tackle advertising, the only advertising I've seen has been by Blu, Vuse and Njoy. There could be others, but I haven't seen anything with any of the flavors we seemed to be concerned with.
Marketing is a complicated issue. What's the goal, to not get teens to BUY e-liquid? The age restricted sales ban SHOULD cover that. It hasn't worked for cigarettes, but neither has the flavor/marketing ban. Now if the goal is to keep kids from drinking the stuff, warning labels and CRP should cover that. If a parent doesn't read the warning label, shame on them. Now let's look at the toxicity of nicotine. Liquid nicotine can be toxic, in high concentrations, all of which come in plain packaging with numerous warnings. E-liquid, the stuff that could have the bright packaging, is not concentrated enough to be toxic except to maybe those under 2 years of age, whose gag reflex may be inhibited. Again though, CRP and warning labels should cover this.
The main problem that have with this whole issue though is, if you accept that there is a problem with a smiling cookie label, and the name "Mr. Cookie," what reason do you have to justify the existence of a cookie flavored e-liquid. If you accept ridiculous illogical arguments, you can't go back and refute them, you've already accepted them.
You know what i find not only sad but disturbing Less, is when people like you come on a forum and down play the dangers of a substance that has the potential to harm or kill a child. We don't know who is lurking on these forums but i just hope you have not left the wrong impression on a young person or a newbie to vaping and it causes them to be less concerned about handling and storing their liquid.
As far as the Mr. Cookie comment..if you didn't get it after reading my post then there is no since in explaining the obvious point again i was making. Sorry you comment just didn't make any sense Less.
New England Journal of Medicine....one of the most prestigious and respected medical journals in the world.
MMS: Error
Small ingestions could be deadly. With an estimated median lethal dose between 1 and 13 mg per kilogram of body weight, 1 teaspoon (5 ml) of a 1.8% nicotine solution could be lethal to a 90-kg person.
With the growing use of e-cigarettes, physicians need to be alert for nicotine poisoning. They also need to educate patients and parents about this danger and advocate for measures that will help prevent potentially fatal liquid nicotine poisoning of infants and young children.
Sounds like some tips you could use Less
You know what i find not only sad but disturbing Less, is when people like you come on a forum and down play the dangers of a substance that has the potential to harm or kill a child. We don't know who is lurking on these forums but i just hope you have not left the wrong impression on a young person or a newbie to vaping and it causes them to be less concerned about handling and storing their liquid.
As far as the Mr. Cookie comment..if you didn't get it after reading my post then there is no since in explaining the obvious point again i was making. Sorry you comment just didn't make any sense Less.
New England Journal of Medicine....one of the most prestigious and respected medical journals in the world.
MMS: Error
Small ingestions could be deadly. With an estimated median lethal dose between 1 and 13 mg per kilogram of body weight, 1 teaspoon (5 ml) of a 1.8% nicotine solution could be lethal to a 90-kg person.
With the growing use of e-cigarettes, physicians need to be alert for nicotine poisoning. They also need to educate patients and parents about this danger and advocate for measures that will help prevent potentially fatal liquid nicotine poisoning of infants and young children.
Sounds like some tips you could use Less
How much nicotine kills a human? Tracing back the generally accepted lethal dose to dubious self-experiments in the nineteenth century
"Despite these uncertainties and the complex pharmacokinetics of nicotine (Hukkanen et al. 2005), a rough estimate of the amount of ingested nicotine from postmortem analyses of blood levels appears feasible. Smoking a cigarette results in uptake of approximately 2 mg of nicotine and gives rise to mean arterial plasma concentrations of about 0.03 mg/L (30 ng/ml) (Gourlay and Benowitz 1997). Based on 20 % oral bioavailability of nicotine (Hukkanen et al. 2005) and assuming linear kinetics, an oral dose of 60 mg would give rise to a plasma concentration of about 0.18 mg/L. The literature reports on fatal nicotine intoxications suggest that the lower limit of lethal nicotine blood concentrations is about 2 mg/L, corresponding to 4 mg/L plasma, a concentration that is around 20-fold higher than that caused by intake of 60 mg nicotine. Thus, a careful estimate suggests that the lower limit causing fatal outcomes is 0.5–1 g of ingested nicotine, corresponding to an oral LD50 of 6.5–13 mg/kg. This dose agrees well with nicotine toxicity in dogs, which exhibit responses to nicotine similar to humans (Matsushima et al. 1995).
...
The discrepancy between the 60-mg dose and published cases of nicotine intoxication has been noted previously (Matsushima et al. 1995; Metzler et al. 2005), but nonetheless, this value is still accepted without scrutiny and taken as the basis for worldwide safety regulations of tobacco and other nicotine-containing products. Nicotine is a toxic compound that should be handled with care, but the frequent warnings of potential fatalities caused by ingestion of small amounts of tobacco products or diluted nicotine-containing solutions are unjustified and need to be revised in light of overwhelming data indicating that more than 0.5 g of oral nicotine is required to kill an adult."
The US National Library of Medicine National Institutes of Health is pretty well respected as well... perhaps you should work on your google fu.
I never said that it shouldn't be kept out of the hands of small children, just that it's not as lethal as you and many others seem to believe it is.
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You also apparently didn't get my point, that the people who are waving the red flags about marketing and flavors will not be satisfied with a plain label, they want the flavor gone too.
The fact is, they want vaping gone entirely. It doesn't fit into their worldview. Nothing is a small concession.
Carrion crow nibbling at the edges until the whole organism succumbs and they can feast.
The 'carrion crow' phrase comes from Chris Whitley's song "Dust Radio". It's worth the google.
I didn't know him well, but the guy could definitely sing and play. The phrase seemed apt.
ETA: I didn't completely dislike his worldview either. )
I didn't know him well, but the guy could definitely sing and play. The phrase seemed apt.
ETA: I didn't completely dislike his worldview either. )
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I collect the bottles because of the interesting labels, if they make us change the lables it's just more game like sanctions. They don't make tobacco companies change their designs because they appeal to teens with sexy designs. If you think I'm making up the idea of sexy designs you need to do more research. Cigars are flavored, cigarettes are not, is a completely different issue and discussion.
You must be kidding - isn't NEJM the home of the latest and greatest formaldehyde scare article? Prestigious and respected, eh?
That would be .5 gram of PURE nicotine... the highest concentration that we deal with is 100mg, which is only a 10% concentration.
Andria
12mg/ml. Multiply that by the number of mls to get the total quantity in the bottle. It can also be expressed as 1.2%/ml.
Andria
Ok so my math is not squify in quantifying that it would take a small child only two 32ml bottle of 12mg/ml mixture to kill themself. Worst outcome of course, not trying to kick a dead horse, just wrap my head around it.
Probably true... but have you ever tasted 12mg eliquid? It's really not tasty. I could maybe see the kid getting 3-5ml down, before going UGHHH!!!!!! and throwing it down. And where is the parental supervision that would disallow any such youngster even getting their hands on it, nevermind turning it up and drinking it. Children don't exist in a vacuum -- there's pretty much always an older person around somewhere, and if not, then that eliquid is the least of the problem. What about all the other poison in most homes? all that junk in the laundry, garage, under the sink....?
Kids don't wander around grabbing stuff and drinking it. The ones small enough that might actually try it, are likely to have the most and closest supervision.
Andria
We say an e-Liquid is 12mg. But we Should be saying 12mg/ml.
Every Milliliter of liquid contains 12mg of Nicotine.
So a 30ml Bottle of 12mg/ml has 360 Total Milligrams of Nicotine in it.
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