This can be True.
And the Sad Fact about many Poisonings of Small Children and Infants is that it Isn't the Poison that Directly Causes Death. But that the Child or Infant Chokes on their Own Vomit.
Why don't people want e-liquid labels changed?
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This can be True.
And the Sad Fact about many Poisonings of Small Children and Infants is that it Isn't the Poison that Directly Causes Death. But that the Child or Infant Chokes on their Own Vomit.
The outward appearance has nothing whatsoever to do with what's inside the package. The sooner that young people/children learn that, the better.
And if the kid hasn't learned that basic lesson by the time they're in high school they're probably in for a life-time of difficulty regardless of what the government does.
Parents need to teach and protect their own children. That's not the government's job.
And if the kid hasn't learned that basic lesson by the time they're in high school they're probably in for a life-time of difficulty regardless of what the government does.
Parents need to teach and protect their own children. That's not the government's job.
Like I said, if there's no grownup or near facsimile in visual or at least shouting distance, that eliquid is the very least of the problem -- why is that small a child unsupervised? I wasn't a perfect parent by any means, but when my son was awake, so was I; present and accounted for. At least until he was old enough to go outdoors and play... unsupervised! Fancy that! Do they even allow that anymore?
Andria
^ This!!Like I said, if there's no grownup or near facsimile in visual or at least shouting distance, that eliquid is the very least of the problem -- why is that small a child unsupervised? I wasn't a perfect parent by any means, but when my son was awake, so was I; present and accounted for. At least until he was old enough to go outdoors and play... unsupervised! Fancy that! Do they even allow that anymore?
Andria
You can't just ban or regulate everything that's dangerous for small children to put in their mouth - good grief that would be a LONG list of things!! Small children need to be well supervised - period!! Anything less and that child is in danger.
YES!
When my daughter first started exploring the world, I had a lot of friends with babies about the same age. They all "childproofed" their homes by putting EVERYTHING out of reach. I thought that was dumb. I put the most dangerous things (cleaners, medicines) out of reach, but started TEACHING her to stay out of things.
Result? I could take her anywhere and she'd behave. My friends would bring their kids to my house and spend the whole time trying to keep them out of things!!
It wasn't perfect - she was still a toddler and still sometimes wanted to get into things, but this is why my eyes were always on her. But because she started learning as soon as she started crawling, she was much less likely to get into any sort of trouble.
But nobody is debating that parents should be responsible for their kids, but the reality is that accidents happen and most of the time those accidents are due to irresponsible parenting. You can keep sweeping that fact under the rug all you want to defend your want for papa smurf on your bottle, but that doesn't change the fact that children do not always have responsible parents and therefore we should do everything we can to minimize harm in those situations by putting protective measures in place. I agree there is inconsistency of standards on other dangerous products as well, but those products are not what's on the table under scrutiny when the gavel comes down folks.
While the marketing and packaging is not only attractive to innocent little children, it's also attractive to teens because they see it as cute harmless fun for kids because it is marketed and packaged with that impression. Do we really need a study to determine that papa smurf catches the interest of a child..do we really need a study to determine that cool colorful cartoon images are attractive to teens and therefore leave a harmless image and impression in the mind of a teen.
I have a 7th grader and a 10th grader. Do you know what they both tell me...actually it was the 7th grader that brought this to my attention...she wondered why i didn't buy the stuff that makes big colorful clouds like the kids out in the school yard do at outdoor evening events. Apparently kids stand in a circle and blow their big colorful clouds into the middle so the colors merge. When i spoke to my high schooler she confirmed this as well. Now i mentioned this once before on this forum and someone replied and said that there was only a couple ways that this could be accomplished and both methods were extremely harmful.
Oh but wait it's gets worse. I was telling them about the controversy regarding marketing and packaging and i was told that many of the devices kids are using....they put stickers on them or make their own stickers and print them out. Here are some examples. Pretty pink burning hearts with big colored clouds simulating blowing a kiss of clouds, rainbows, roadrunner leaving a trail of big clouds of vapor as roadrunner is vaping, tasmanian devil spinning while vaping and creating a tornado of vapor. One girl had one that had a jazzy chick from the cartoon character Bratzs imitating vaping. I was told everybody decorated their devices in this way.
Please don't tell me we need studies to confirm that teens are attracted to cartoonish characters and symbols...face*palm!!!! Do you think the regulators are not already well aware of what is going on and gathering this info to use against us if it doesn't stop. I have this imagine in my head of the part in that super hero movie where the incredible hulk has had enough of Loki....ehem!!! but by all means, you guys keep up with defending papa smurf, Mr. Cookie and teddy bear shaped bottles.
While the marketing and packaging is not only attractive to innocent little children, it's also attractive to teens because they see it as cute harmless fun for kids because it is marketed and packaged with that impression. Do we really need a study to determine that papa smurf catches the interest of a child..do we really need a study to determine that cool colorful cartoon images are attractive to teens and therefore leave a harmless image and impression in the mind of a teen.
I have a 7th grader and a 10th grader. Do you know what they both tell me...actually it was the 7th grader that brought this to my attention...she wondered why i didn't buy the stuff that makes big colorful clouds like the kids out in the school yard do at outdoor evening events. Apparently kids stand in a circle and blow their big colorful clouds into the middle so the colors merge. When i spoke to my high schooler she confirmed this as well. Now i mentioned this once before on this forum and someone replied and said that there was only a couple ways that this could be accomplished and both methods were extremely harmful.
Oh but wait it's gets worse. I was telling them about the controversy regarding marketing and packaging and i was told that many of the devices kids are using....they put stickers on them or make their own stickers and print them out. Here are some examples. Pretty pink burning hearts with big colored clouds simulating blowing a kiss of clouds, rainbows, roadrunner leaving a trail of big clouds of vapor as roadrunner is vaping, tasmanian devil spinning while vaping and creating a tornado of vapor. One girl had one that had a jazzy chick from the cartoon character Bratzs imitating vaping. I was told everybody decorated their devices in this way.
Please don't tell me we need studies to confirm that teens are attracted to cartoonish characters and symbols...face*palm!!!! Do you think the regulators are not already well aware of what is going on and gathering this info to use against us if it doesn't stop. I have this imagine in my head of the part in that super hero movie where the incredible hulk has had enough of Loki....ehem!!! but by all means, you guys keep up with defending papa smurf, Mr. Cookie and teddy bear shaped bottles.
at 12 mg per ml a 30 ml bottle would contain 0.36 of a gram of nicotine.
accounting for the small body mass of a child if .5 grams is deadly,
.36 could be fatal. it has to get into the blood stream first.
the liver will metabolize a lot of it and, the stomach would naturally
purge itself by vomiting in most cases.
regards
mike
accounting for the small body mass of a child if .5 grams is deadly,
.36 could be fatal. it has to get into the blood stream first.
the liver will metabolize a lot of it and, the stomach would naturally
purge itself by vomiting in most cases.
regards
mike
Incredible Hulk (regulators) -verse- Loki ( we vapers DEMAND Papa smurf, Mr. Cookie and teddy bear shaped bottles!!!)
I agree with you, no need for kiddie cartoons on eliquid bottles. Anything "adult" has the potential to appeal to older teens who want to look and feel more adult. So I don't think it's possible to avoid packaging that can appeal to teens, but surely we can avoid the appearance of going after the pre-teen and younger kids.
I had no idea it was possible to blow colored clouds. Do you know if they are using nicotine or no-nic for that?
It is quite alright for you to have an opinion of what you find silly (said in another of your posts)but to speak for what all adults ( remember 18 qualifies in most states presently) should enjoy or not is a bit closed minded and quite insulting to me. It is not so much a particular graphic or image that I am trying to defend. It is the right to market their products to reach the audience that they want to as long as regulations that are already in place governing marketing practices are followed (copyright, decency, etc.). I want to know if you think that there is a huge difference of what attracts say a 16 year old that could not walk into most vape shops and walk out with a purchase to what attracts an 18 or even 21 year old that legally could. Did that market of people all of a sudden abandon their youthful likes? So why cant a company target the youngest acceptable age group of "legal" (if an age is actually set by law) vapers? Say my 19 year old entrepreneur son does his research, obtains licenses and has the money to open a vape shop that houses his own line of juice and he wants to attract like aged people into his shop. He might know what attracts his own age better then I would right? Who am I to tell him that he cannot do that because somebody two or three years younger then him will also like it. I am in my 50's. I have always enjoyed animation, fun tasting food, games (including video), cartoons and comics and many other things that can be silly. Yes, we are under scrutiny right now but I prefer that they see a very strong community that honestly believes in their cause and wants to fight for it and protect it as a whole. I would never be so selfish as to say "if you won't let "Mr. Cookie" remain then that is my breaking point." , but I don't want to assume that these labels are wrong because they come off as silly to some at this point.
The quote I put in purple kind of defeats any plain label arguments. If the younger set ( I actually make my vapes my own as well) is printing out their our graphics to decorate their vapes then what good does plain labels do? You seem to want to portray this as something only children do but when I read Tasmanian devil spinning while vaping, I now want that on my vape. Thanks for the cool idea.
The quote I put in green is because I want to remind people that sometimes accidents happen just because. Many moons ago my two sisters and I were young parents. We had all the kids (7 at the time) all doing a nice quiet, safe activity. They were coloring and making cards with crayons, paste and safety scissors. We adults were helping them all. My niece who was 4 leaned in to get another crayon and got the safety scissors right in the eye. We were taking all kinds of safety precautions but one of the kids still got hurt. Children get hurt by safe and harmful things everyday and it is tragic when it happens but we cannot keep them in a bubble. And we cant tell irresponsible people not to have kids no matter what we think. We need to safeguard our own kids the best way we can by keeping potentially dangerous items out of their reach. For every family that will be viewed and accomplished differently. My safety measures may be different then yours. My grandchildren have no clue what the labels on my juice look like because they are in my personal bedroom in a vape cabinet that has a lock.
These are adults:
Show us your girly, pretty, decorated, pink! | E-Cigarette Forum
Perhaps we should ban stickers? Or printers? Or crafts?
As for the colored clouds, I'm not sure what they're using. I've never seen a product marketed to do that. I would wager it's probably something that you DIY, or add yourself.
All of those things that you mention, have nothing to do with labels.
ETA: after some quick and dirty googling, the only thing I can find that would "color" the vapor, is LED lights, which I'm fairly certain don't come with any health risks.
Show us your girly, pretty, decorated, pink! | E-Cigarette Forum
Perhaps we should ban stickers? Or printers? Or crafts?
As for the colored clouds, I'm not sure what they're using. I've never seen a product marketed to do that. I would wager it's probably something that you DIY, or add yourself.
All of those things that you mention, have nothing to do with labels.
ETA: after some quick and dirty googling, the only thing I can find that would "color" the vapor, is LED lights, which I'm fairly certain don't come with any health risks.
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I don't know how they are doing it nor did my daughters know...but i am sure when the health problems start, vaping in general will be blamed as unhealthy with NO MENTION of what ACTUALLY caused the health problems in these situations....which is another liability and set of concerns that people are not thinking through and taking into consideration. This is another reason why we don't want teens vaping because they are the one's who are most likely to abuse and misuse vaping in a way that it was not intended and creating false health concerns....and you can betcha these teens are more then likely not going to report their misuse of the product that ACTUALLY CAUSED the health problems they are now having from vaping.
I had a long talk with my high schooler that if she is at a party and a group of them are setting at a table near her to stay away from their second hand vapor fumes and move to another room where it's not going on or leave.
Conflation, misinformation, fear, and a little tug on the heartstrings for the children. This is why it's so hard to fight for vaping. Logic, reason, and science are no match for "belief."
Yep, gotta avoid those dangerous, second-hand vapor fumes!
It's always wise when you reply to someone's post that you include their post in it's entirety and then highlight what you are referencing, otherwise you may be taking what the poster said and the reason for saying it out of context...which is exactly what happened here....big time!!
Yep, gotta avoid those dangerous, second-hand vapor fumes!
Is this better?
It is certainly your prerogative to teach your children whatever you believe, but it is also A OK 
for another here to disagree. The information that the (colored) second hand vapor fumes that you were referring to was absent from the post so quoting the whole thing would not have cleared that up, thus leaving your context intact. Sometimes you just need to trust that people are actually reading the whole thread. Even if it had been included ( that it was colored vape just to be clear)
I think I would still give it an eye roll because to the best of my knowledge the only way to color the exhaled vapor at all is by lighting (spotlight or laser pointers) and that would be no different then regular vapor.
So lets ban everything that can hurt a kid? Seriously? Do you realize how much that would encompass? Detergent, especially detergent pods. Over the counter medication, certain foods, alcoholic beverages, cigarettes, cars, bicycles..sheesh I'm going to stop here. You get the idea.
I agree also about the colored vapor and feel compelled to say "Pics or it didn't happen." I haven't found anything at all, and once I read someone ask here I started looking because it was wondering I wished I could do, depending on what causes it. LED lights were the only thing I could think of after not finding anything.
Also, I don't know about anyone else. I'm 28 and I really enjoyed the latest Spongebob Movie, along with many other animated movies and shows/cartoons. With that said, kids also like looking mature. They could easily be drawn to that label they see that looks mature on a tasty juice?
Is this better?
And where did i say it was not ok for another here to disagree? where did i do anything other then share my opinion on the matter just like you did...but yet it seems you are the one that has the problem with practicing what you preach about allowing others to have opinions that disagree with your's. I have not singled you out directly and taken issue with your opinions personally until now, so again where is all of this coming from? We have a topic here and we are all sharing our opinions on the topic.
You want to respond to my opinions fine, but if your going to get nasty about it then your opinion is not worth my time to read or respond to Jode going forward.
Furthermore, clearly my post was in RESPONSE to answering another poster regarding the colored vapor Jode..how could one miss it?..yet you tell me to trust that people actually read the whole thread when clearly in this case they didnt even read the post i was responding to that was attached to my responding post.
Honestly I still can not figure out, regardless if one did not read what i was responding to, how it was not clear that i was speaking about something that was harmful and how misuse of vaping like that would result in misplacing blame on vaping for the health problems it would cause...
Thing is i didn't make a big issue about it or accuse the poster of purposely doing it because it may have been a innocent mistake..SO WHY ARE YOU MAKING A ISSUE OUT OF THIS?...please stop
So, as someone whom you did accuse of basically endangering the lives of the children of anyone who reads my posts, with incorrect information I might add, what does anything you're talking about have to do with product labeling?
I tried to clarify the issue before, but you decided to try to attack my facts instead.
The only reported case of accidental poisoning in the US happened with a toddler, and an open bottle of concentrated nicotine. The kind that comes in a plain plastic bottle with warning labels and no branding. The teens you speak of don't need pretty packaging, they make their own. As for colored vapor, the only thing I can find that would produce it is lighting, even vaporizing pure dye barely even tints the vapor, and is extremely unpleasant from what I've read.
Plain packaging doesn't prevent accidental poisonings, it doesn't stop teens from wanting to try e-cigs. It's a false argument and opens the floodgates for ANY restriction intended to "protect the children."
My son was curious, certainly; he sometimes investigated my lower kitchen cabinets -- in which the most danger he faced was perhaps dropping some piece of cookware too heavy for his little mits.
Anything that was dangerous was out of his reach, out of his sight. But he never, ever put things in his mouth, for a very good reason: I told the nurses in the nursery of the of hospital where he was born that if they put a pacifier in his mouth, I would come and personally kick every one of their butts. He never got the idea of putting *things* in his mouth -- only food and drink. Never objects. Our home was childproofed in the sense of, no fragile objects where he could knock them over, no boobytraps for children... but that was it. He never investigated the mysteries of electric plugs, I never put those annoying latches on my cabinets... because I was right there with him; it was unnecessary. The one thing he managed to do, despite every precaution, was climb completely out of his crib at the age of 2 1/2, then fall and "break" his wrist... though it was a "greenstick fracture," because he was so young, it wasn't fully calcified yet. If a kid is determined to exit a crib, it doesn't matter how high the rail is, he'll get over it, one way or another. Andria
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